Discussion YMMV / TheBigBangTheory

Unfortunate Implications requires citations from reliable external sources. My assumption is that the examples removed had no citations and were just tropers complaining, or something like that.

Do videos and blog posts count as sources? I looked at the examples and they all linked either to a blog post or a video with comments.

I don't think so. If I remember correctly, you can't just cite anything; it has to be from a reputable, reliable source. So no blogs. Don't quote me on that, though — I honestly have no clue.

That's the thing... it should be used for any show that portrays nerds as outcasts for laughs, but for a show like TBBT, it's even worse because the show is ostensibly meant to celebrate nerd-dom, when in reality it portrays all of its nerdy characters in the same stereotypical, outcast, completely-okay-to-mock fashion. It's the equivalent of pretending to be someone's friend and then mocking them behind their backs. We're supposed to laugh at the nerds because they are nerds, and that's the key. We're meant to laugh at them, not with them, and while the show doesn't necessarily hate its nerdy characters, it's clearly condescending to them. For instance, Penny gets with Leonard and none of the others basically because he's the least nerdy of the nerds and is more willing to mock his friends.

If a show treated a different social group, or even a minority group, the way TBBT treats nerds there'd be controversy, petitions, and reams and reams of bad reviews. But nerds and geeks are still considered a fair target by many, and TBBT is a clear and probably deliberate enabler of that, even while disguising itself as a celebration of the culture.

But you see, "TBBT hates nerds" is an awfully big label to throw around and the argument is being made with really generic statements and not specific moments. For every moment it makes fun of nerds it has two or three that shows them celebrating their common love of nerdy things. Instead of being this insightful "Oh!" observation the example is just really vague Complaining.

If anyone was to ask me what the premise of the show boils down to I would say it is "awkward nerds become less awkward" not "awkward nerds become less nerdy so people will accept them." It's actually interesting how "awkward" and "nerd" are synonymous even to the people complaining about the stereotype. Penny doesn't fall for Leonard because he is less nerdy but because he is less awkward, he actually caught the attention of Alex because of his socially confident behavior. Howard doesn't give up his nerdy behavior when he marries Bernadette, he just becomes less pervy and he is now no longer a Basement-Dweller. In short, the character development of the show undermines the argument being made.

Now don't get me wrong, the observation that people dislike the portrayal of nerds on the show is perfectly valid and I'm not trying to say they're stupid for feeling that way, I just strongly disagree that it is Unfortunate Implications. That's why I put the information down on Internet Backdraft.

The show picks on jocks much more than nerds if anything, particularly the many Dumb Muscle characters in early seasons, and Penny noting she can't date "dumb" guys anymore after being with Leonard. Aside from Sheldon being the extreme version of the stereotypical nerd (and in that role he's a Strawman anymore that annoys the guys), the characters have begun to grow out of their stereotypes and become perfectly normal people. The show celebrates nerd-dom indeed by showing that liking video games, Dungeons & Dragons, and science fiction, does not mean you have to be a socially awkward weirdo who lives with their mom. And how many episodes dealing with reconciling those two lives, the guys trying to get girlfriends and be normal while still being friends who like nerdy things?

If you de-aged the cast to their teens, it could easily be seen as a coming-of-age story for the characters. And in a sense, it still is.

If the person who keeps putting the example back were to actually come here, I would say I am willing to reach a compromise if they could actually give more evidence than simply pimping a vague comment from Penny Arcade (among other vague internet rants). YMMV is not a dumping ground for opinions but it still has to offer evidence that the trope is in effect.

For example just look at the other entries in Unfortunate Implications and see how it is specifying actual moments in the show and giving an interpretation explaining why it falls under the trope. Otherwise it comes across as someone who doesn't actually watch or understand the show but is just parroting their favorite internet voice.

And to be clear, it has to be a solitary moment and not a "TBBT HATES NERDS!" irrational rant that the current example continues to evolve into.

Do characters need their own YMMV tropes separately added from the page? Seems a big disorganized in execution.

Edit - Oops, didn't mean to respond to this, I meant to start a new topic.

In replying to the main post, she is very well liked among critics for her unique interactions with Sheldon and a lot of the fans agree. But she does seem to be a bit of a Base Breaker (at least with a Vocal Minority) with those disliking any of the changes/additions the show has made over the last few seasons.