Ideal and the Real
Dafoe and Molina's de-aging is listed both under Special Effects Failure and Visual Effects of Awesome. Which one is it? Doesn't one directly contradict the other?
Edited by xVanitas Hide / Show Replies
A portion of the audience may have the first reaction while the other portion may have the second. YMMV pages are for documenting subjective tropes and audience reactions, meaning you can list both on the page and not have anything contradict.
Mr.
I’ve been wondering, if the Green Goblin personality as depicted in the Peter David novelization is listed as a Complete Monster due to being, and I quote, “far more of his own entity than in the film,” then since the Goblin persona is also more distinct from Norman Osborn in this film, should he be considered a Complete Monster here as well?
He/Him
Seeing as how the cutoff date for Broken Base and Base-Breaking Characters is nearing. Any ideas on what to add?
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
This has been on my mind ever since I first saw the movie. Does Ned suddenly gaining the ability to use Strange's sling ring and successfully open portals count as Ass Pull? IMHO Ned has NEVER displayed any sign of possessing potential to become a sorcerer before, and in this movie he has only a single line about magic running in his family which he said offhandedly to Strange as all we have as Foreshadowing, and we don't even know if it's actually true and that Ned does indeed have relatives who are actually sorcerers.
Moreover, we don't know how long it takes Strange himself to train how to use the sling ring to open up a portal in his own movie, but it's implied that it takes quite some time and he has to try again and again until it works, but here Ned inexplicably is able to open up a portal in just a few times by mere coincidence just because he really wish he could see Peter Parker. It really feels like this ability really comes out of nowhere just so the movie can bring in Peter 2 and Peter 3 into the plot in the third act. Any thoughts?
Edited by Willy2537 Hide / Show Replies
I don't think it is. That line about "magic in his family" hints at it enough.
But that's just one line - delivered offhandedly as well. 'Magic runs in my family' doesn't automatically mean one is capable of performing sorcery without prior training or even the belief that they themselves can do magic. Even Strange himself requires a period of time training himself before he could even summon his own portal, and that's when the Ancient One left him almost frozen to death on top of the Everest.
Edited by Willy2537
Because Strange's ego and personality were getting in the way of his training. At that point the other recruits had learned to do the basic spells he was struggling with.
So does this mean anyone can perform magic (or at the vert least conjure a portal)? And even if that’s the case, does it make sense narrative-wise for a character who has never shown any sign of being able to do sorcery before in previous films to suddenly be able to perform it with only one offhanded line to foreshadow it?
Again, regarding Ned's sudden ability to use magic, it's not about whether or not Ned is actually capable of using magic all along because - as he puts it - 'it's in his family' or not, it's how he's able to suddenly USE it that makes me feel like it qualifies as an Ass Pull. Even though Ned realizes that magic indeed exists from his experience with Doctor Strange in Sanctum Santorum, he never believes that he himself is actually capable of doing magic before; he achieves it completely by coincidence because the plot needs some way to bring Andrew and Tobey's Peter Parkers into the story.
If anybody can just open portals simply because they have strong feelings about wanting to see someone, there'd be a lot more mystic art users around the world.
For what it's worth, the fact that he had a sling ring, which is the physical tool required to use it, which presumably isn't the case in that hypothetical scenario
Indeed, the sling ring is a major factor that allows Ned to summon portals, but the fact remains that Ned is still able to summon it completely by coincidence in the first place by simply having a strong wish to see ‘Peter Parker’ while wearing Strange’s sling ring.
Do Sandman and Electro really apply as wasted characters? The entry states that "almost all sympathy is lost for the sake of a fight" and seems to indicate this goes against their characters, but sympathy isn't lost on them? Peter's 2 and 3 try to reason with both, but Flint is impatient and wants the box to go home, while Max wants to destroy it, Max even hinders Flint in the middle of their fight. He clearly teams up with them because that's what he views as the best way to go home, he doesn't care about being cured really. And not to mention all three villains are given sympathetic reunions when they are cured. It seems to me like they were used pretty effectively
Would Doctor Strange's behaviour in this film warrant a Moral Dissonance ? As a Doctor, he should be intimately familiar with the process of explaining what the effects and potential negative side effects of a treatment are BEFORE starting said treatment? Especially when dealing with a minor. I'm shocked nobody in-universe called him out on this TBH.
Edited by nalbers Hide / Show Replies
Aside from the fact Moral Dissonance is a disambiguation, not really? Strange has been shown to be an Insufferable Genius from day one and assumes that people should just trust him as he's so smart. Informed consent has never been at the forefront of the MCU character (see: Infinity War where he kept his endgame close to his chest, Ragnarok where he performed the tracking spell using Thor's hair before Thor could even finish his request).
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Okay, how can the ending be walked back in Spiderman 4, just for MJ alone, no one else?