There's no doubt MarvelFan2018 has strong opinions that Marilyn's actions are despicable and I can certainly see the justification for such an opinion.
The question is whether the scenario fits the Moral Event Horizon trope which is defined as "the first evil deed to prove a particular character to be irredeemably evil. Note the word irredeemably. It is a demonstration of permanent evil: the first evil moment which confirms that this character will always be a bad person. The moment where you know for sure that it's simply not possible for them to wash their hands to get rid of the damned spot of blood. The moment any Freudian Excuse they may have loses all meaning... Their existence is a blight on humanity. They. Are. Vile. "
In short the trope is about being irredeemable not just that they do stuff you feel is cruel or heartless. As such, I really don't think Marilyn qualifies for this trope given how severe it is.
I concur. In the flashback, Marilyn is shown actively looking for Billy after they are separated and only abandons him once she sees him in the company of a couple of cops. It's strongly implied that one of the main reasons why she left him behind was because she believed he would be taken to a foster home and be given a better life than she could ever provide him. As such, this action alone is, at least in my opinion, insufficient to classify the character of Marilyn as "irredeemably evil". The original post speaks of the character "losing all (the audience's) sympathy", which I feel would be more suited to describe The Scrappy, but I don't think Marilyn is despised enough to be classified as such.
Does that mean we're going to have to describe Marilyn as Unintentionally Sympathetic again?
Not really.
It's quite possible to have a story that involves a complicated character scenario that isn't easily captured by a trope. Her not fitting into Moral Event Horizon doesn't automatically mean she qualifies for Unintentionally Sympathetic.
I'd like to challenge the entry of Marilyn Batson under Unintentionally Sympathetic.
The definition for the trope is that "they get a lot more sympathy from the audience than the writers were expecting. Such a character was purposely created to be disliked or viewed as wrong by the viewers, whether be a villain, a jerk, or someone disliked by the other characters."
As the current example points out, her back-story is not a black-n-white affair. She was a struggling single mom who was abandoned by her parents after her teenage pregnancy and later by her husband. She made a very poor decision at the fair and, judging by her current situation, is still working to make good decisions in her life.
In viewing the character of Marilyn Batson and the way she is used in the narrative. Her purpose seems to be the goal that Billy is searching for that causes him to forgo ever thinking of settling in with a foster family and his ultimate reunion with her drives home the notation that a family is what you make, not what you're born with.
She is a unique creation for the film, and has no counterpart in the New 52 comic. Therefore, it's hard to feel she was intentionally created just to be disliked or viewed as wrong.
As such, I don't feel she's meant to be an example of Unintentionally Sympathetic.
Thoughts?
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It's been awhile since this was posted and it has garnered no response. As such, I'm going to remove the entry with an edit reason that summarizes why she's not an example Unintentionally Sympathetic and refer to this discussion for more details...
Anyone else find the details about Billy’s mom a bit narmy?
- She is divorced and reverted to her maiden name, hence why he couldn’t find her by looking under Batson. This must have happened relatively soon after she lost him at the fair, if not even before.
- She abandoned a boy of 4 at age 17. Which means she had him at age 13.
- Her parents threw her out for getting pregnant in the first place.
So, in summation: His mom gets pregnant at 12-13 and marries the guy who knocked her up relatively soon after. At some point, her parents kick her out. Those two on their own don’t really make much sense together. Then, she gets divorced just a few years later? Or do her parents kick her out for getting divorced? The Venn diagram for a family composed of people like this looks really weird in my head.
Its like they just piled every possible bad trope - teen mom, grandparents threw them out, divorce - into the pot just to hammer it home.
Edited by ChrisValentine Hide / Show Replies
I've watched the movie several times and where's the 13 even coming from? She said that she was 17 when her parents kicked her out, but why would her parents kick her out some time later? That usually happens as soon as when they found out she was pregnant. I assumed that she was 17 when she fell pregnant, her parents kicked her out, she turned 18 while pregnant and that was when she married (why would anyone allow a 13/14 year old to marry in 2006? It wouldn't fly in any court, I think), and her husband abandoned her 3 years later.
Is there anything contradicting that? The movie doesn't.
Edited by phylos
I interpreted her as saying she was 17 when she abandoned him, not when she had him. If thats wrong, then it makes it a little less over the top. That said, there is no minimum age to marry in PA, its at a judge’s discretion. Without judicial approval, it is 16.
Anyway, while 17-21 is better than 13-17, its still pretty excessive to throw ‘kicked out by parents’ and ‘divorced’ into such s short time frame. Especially when she takes her maiden name back. Was it a “well, my parents screwed me over a little less than my ex?”
Wick checker for hire
A bit about the Unexpected Character part: exactly in which part of the movie are Beautia and Magnificus seen? I didn't notice them at all.
The best character is always the one-shot disguise.
Removed this:
It's really overselling Marilyn's actions, and appears to have been put in by a troper that just really hates the character.
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