Always serious, 'cause someone has to be
I have questions about this entry under Broken Base:
- Series 6 of Ranked Battles, which ran from September to October 2020, proved to be quite divisive among competitive players, since the gimmick is that 16 staple Pokémon are not allowed for the moment. Most welcome the change of pace of not having to see the same few faces over and over, but some see this as an additional weight on top of all of the other Pokémon not yet being available in the games.
Is this a valid entry if the series in question started in September and Broken Base entries are supposed to happen six months after?
Edited by YoriIroy I can't draw Hide / Show Replies
Super late to this, but I am going to say it does not qualify as per the six month rule. The entry on the DLC was removed for the same reason.
Always serious, 'cause someone has to be
I have a few problems with these entries, but I need more input:
- Creator's Pet:
- The fifth generation in terms of the returning Pokémon in the base game. Out of all the returning Pokémon, the fifth generation has the most returning ones even outnumbering the returning Kanto Pokémon along with new Galarian forms and a new evolution (Runerigus) plus one of two non-Kanto or Galar Pokémon to have a Gigantamax form (Garbodor). This may likely be due to James Turner's Sakurai-esque bias towards it, as it was the first generation he worked on, and one of the first Pokémon he designed that means a lot to him, Vanillite, as well as its evolutionary family, are incredibly common from as early as the Wild Area to as late as Route 10. Some fans wish that all generations would be treated equally, while others, as explained in Broken Base, love the fifth generation and all the love it's been getting in these games after Kanto has been hogging up the spotlight.
- Charizard. It's the only non-Galar starter to be caught in the base game without the use of Pokémon HOME or other transferring methods, and, at launch, is the only starter to get a Gigantamax form, before its fellow Kanto starters as well as the Galar starters. At this point, people born after 1995 see Charizard as glorified 90s nostalgia and want starter Pokémon from later generations to get this kind of love as well.
1. Creator's Pet is usually used for a single character not a group or a species. 2. Besides that, the first criteria for Creator's Pet is being The Scrappy and both these entries are, at worst, Base-Breaking Characters. 3. Even putting that aside, the fourth criteria is being talked up by the other characters, and neither of these Groups get Character Shilling in-game, except for Leon's Charizard specifically, and even then it's the Champion's best Pokémon, so it has a reason to be put into big scenes. There are entries on this page about the Gen 5 Pokémon and many entries across the Franchise's pages about Charizard already, so I think trying to force Creator's Pet status on them is, if not technically incorrect, then unnecessary.
Edited by YoriIroy I can't draw Hide / Show Replies
I personally don't mind the Gen 5 representation. I feel the better fitting trope would be Spotlight-Stealing Squad
That makes more sense. Both the entries are already on the Spotlight-Stealing Squad video games subpage, but you can add them to the main Sword & Shield page if you want. I'm removing the Creator's Pet entry.
Edited by YoriIroy I can't draw
Would you guys say this game's Hate Dumb is a Vocal Minority?
He/they | Mostly here on my free days Hide / Show Replies
The detractors of the game may be a valid example of a Vocal Minority, but you really have to put it in a more neutral, less Flame Bait-y way if you want to add it. Hate Dumb is Flame Bait, and if you write an entry just to complain about people not liking the game, it will get deleted.
Susjection!
A couple of months ago, I added this entry under Complacent Gaming Syndrome
- Pokémon with abilities that make them immune to Water-type attacks are used on essentially every team in competitive 6v6 single battles. Without one, players run the risk of an opposing Dracovish cutting through their teams like butter.
Yesterday, I deleted this entry because Smogon banned Dracovish, making the entry outdated. Applenyan then restored the entry without edit reason. Should it stay on the page or be deleted for being outdated?
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I think it should stay, but be rewritten to reflect the fact that Dracovish has been banned (after all, it was banned because of the resulting Complacement Gaming Syndrome). Suggestion:
- Dracovish, which has access to the extremely powerful Water-type move Fishious Rend, was used a lot in competitive 6v6 single battles. As a result, many teams used Pokémon with abilities that make them immune to Water-type attacks to keep an opposing Dracovish from cutting through their teams like butter. This was so overcentralizing that Smogon eventually banned Dracovish.
I second with keeping it there, as it does give history of the competitive battle scene.
It's been 3 days and since I've been outvoted 2-1, you should add your rewritten entry to the page Maths Angelic Version.
Always serious, 'cause someone has to be
I have a question regarding this entry:
- Disappointing Last Level: The postgame isn't well regarded due to the fact there are no new areas to explore, the story gets boringly repetitive as all you do is retread the same areas for one Max Raid Battle and an occasional battle with the new antagonists who are considered the scrappies due to how unreasonable their motives are and how annoying they can get. Even after beating them and capturing Zacian/Zamezeta all that remains is the battle tower which is noticeably less challenging than in previous games.
Does Disappointing Last Level count if it's talking about the postgame and not the final level of the main game? And if so, why has this not been noted for the past 2 generations as their postgames are also considered weak.
I can't draw Hide / Show Replies
I suggest to add Designed Villains for the Macro Cosmo's staff. Piers describe the men that work for Oleana as evil, Hop threaten a girl to attack her becouse what they does and she reply that she is one of the good guy. But exactly what they do illegal or at least moral wrong. At the time the protagonist didn't even know Rose's plan, and all that they do is preventing people to enter in a private building to assist at a private conversation, that is just their work. There isn't even non proof that they know Rose plan, an in any case the protagonist can't know it, all that they know is that Rose is having a reunion with Leon, they don't even have a real reason to believe he is in danger. Even Rose in this particular case is addressed as evil for no reason (in that particular case). In reality are the protagonist that do illegal acts: they chase and attack the staff members for no real reason, stole the key, enter in a private building witouth permission to listen a private conversation and Hop threats a girl for no true reason; there are serious crimes and the game insist that they are right and the Macro Cosmos are wrong. Sorry if there are a lot of grammar error, I am Italian
Edited by Matteo Hide / Show Replies
Except that Macro Cosmos literally has no reason to act against the protagonists. All they want to do is check on Leon for being late to dinner, and Oleanna inexplicably decides to take drastic measures rather than do anything reasonable such as explain the situation.
Yes, it's true, but it's also true that the member of the staff aren't doing anything wrong. I didn't say Oleana, i say the other members of the staff. They are just following orders, are that aren't illegal order, so there is no reason to called them evil. Also, that is a private conversation, so if they didn't want anyone to listen to it that is absolutely their right. What they do is not illegal or even moral wrong, Oleana didn't even lie, she say that Rose and Leon are having a private reunion, that is true. And breaking in a private building without permission is illegal, you can't deny it,but the game try to convince you that the Marco Cosmos is wrong and the protagonist are right, and that is no true
Edited by Matteo
Okay, a couple things: 1. Oleana's exact quote is "Chairman Rose is with the Champion in a very, very important meeting... There is no way I will let anyone interfere!", so she is being needlessly antagonistic.
2. The game make a point of there being a difference between the "normal" Macro Cosmos staff and Oleana's personal staff, who are also all needlessly antagonistic.
3. Most of your first post and a bit of your second are focused on actions that the heroes do, not the villains. So, I think the problem is less that Macro Cosmos are Designated Villains and more that the the main crew are temporarily Desginated Heroes, because very few people thought that the Aether Foundation from Sun & Moon were Designated Villians despite some of the plot points done here being similar.
...Actually, Macro Cosmos is quite a bit like the Aether Foundation now that I think about it. A front of trying to make a better world for people and Pokémon, with lower-level employees who genuinely believe that, and the top brass scheming secret evil plans and messing around with Legendaries.
I can't draw
The problem that I have is why the protagonist referred them as villains? For what they know they don't do anything wrong or illegal, I don't even agree so much with the fact that they act needless antagonistic, yes is true that Oleana's dialogues are quite aggressive for no reason, but forget that for a bit and watch the fact: they are just preventing the protagonist for listen to a private meeting,that a pretty legitimate thing to do. In real life if you want to see your brother that have a private meeting I'm pretty sure that a lot of staff members will say you "no". Maybe that's pretty rude, but note illegal or villainus, so there is no reason to call them villains for what they know. The difference between Macro Cosmos and Aether foundation is that when the protagonist infiltrate themself into the structure Lillie is being kidnapped, and the staff cut Faba Lusamine and few other are never referred as villains because they are doing there job, but at the same time the protagonist have a pretty good reason for break the law and enter without permission, and some members of the foundation are effectively do something villainous and they partially know that in that case no, Leon isn't in danger and there is no reason to believe that they are planning something, so why called them villains. And yes, in that particular moment the protagonist are a bit of Designated Hero too
Edited by Matteo
The protagonists are, like, 10. From Hop's point of view: - Leon is late, and he's never late. So he wants to go find him in case something weird is going on. - Instead of saying "Oh, no, sorry, they're just running a bit late", they jump through a bunch of very weird hoops to stop those kids from finding Leon's big bro. Conclusion: They've done something super fishy with him. - After that, instead of explaining anything, they're starting Pokémon battles. Which, once again, does nothing to make Hop believe they're anything other than bad guys.
"With two new regions to explore, there will likely be a boatload of brand new post game content"
Key word: likely
Call me a skeptic, but if this is not known for sure, why add it now instead of waiting until the regions actually release?
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Reception to the DLCs has been mostly positive, but Facebook posts are flooded with negative posts from angry, cheap fans with strong Fan Dumb (attempts to explain that the 200+ returning Pokémon will be programmed in anyway fall on deaf ears).
I would consider keeping the pages locked for longer to deter hate vandalism.
Edited by MysteriousZorua1994 The honorable Prince of the Sea: Manaphy Hide / Show Replies
"Cheap fans"
Umm... Considering the DLC costs less than a third game, I don't think the people who prefer buying a third game are cheap...
And some fans may not give a darn about the returning pokemon. I certainly don't since it's still limited regardless.
Is it alright to include the Ron the Death Eater trope? I notice a thing in some fan communities that they like to paint Rose as much more evil than he canonically was, such as throwing out Bede on the streets when he simply sent Bede back in Hammerlocke with no indication that he abandoned Bede out on the roads. Conveniently putting out Oleana, who is actually responsible for Bede doing what he did in Stow-On-Side, away from the equation. The game in-universe puts the blame of Bede's situation more on Oleana than putting the blame on Rose.
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Just putting this in just in case I need to wait until six months after the game's release to put in the entry.
Does They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot really apply to the Evil Leon Theory? To me, its main page sounds like the plot being wasted has to actually exist, but the game never, not even once, implies Leon is anything but a good guy (unless I'm missing something - which is perfectly possible, considering how gullible I am). Even when the meeting with Rose takes longer, the game treats it as a straight up rescue mission, with no NP Cs at all considering they might be scheming or whatever.
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You know what? You're right. A game can't waste a plot point it doesn't have.
Edited by YoriIroy I can't draw
The Scarlet Queen
For anyone who wants to add entries to this page, please go to the Locked Pages thread over on Frequently Asked Questions instead of suggesting them here.
Edited by Storygirl000
Does Piers count as an Ensemble Dark Horse? He is getting popular not only for being the first dark type gym leader in the franchise but also because his personality and actions endear him to a lot of players from what I have seen.
I think there should be a Broken Base entry for...reasons.
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There’s a 6 month waiting period before adding that trope now.
Ryoko.
We could probably make a whole trilogy out of that, Tainted by the Preview, and Critical Backlash.
Thoughts on this trope:
- Critical Dissonance: Probably one of the best examples of this trope. A lot of popular websites have given the game high scores, with the lowest being VG247, which gave it three out of five stars. Metacritic sets its website critic level at (as of this writing) 81 out of 100. You ask the players, you'd think they were given ET The Extra Terrestial. While there are players who do genuinely enjoy the game despite its flaws, these people are drowned out by the players who absolutely despise the game.
We'd absolutely need to give it a lot more time, as I'm fairly certain that plenty of those haters haven't even played the game yet and are just bitchy entitled fans.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Yeah, indeed. Those who've actually played the game give it high praise, while most of the negative reviews come from the entitled pro-dexers who are boycotting the game and trying to force Game Freak out of business. I'd give it about three months tops before we add this in.
The honorable Prince of the Sea: Manaphy
What parts of the internet have you been going to? Because from what I've seen there are a lot of people who have played the games and found it to be underwhelming, at best.
Yeah, I've seen a couple of people who've played the game and while they don't hate it, they typically don't place it above average.
Above average for a Pokemon game or above average in general?
But really, it's been out 3 days. Everyone who despises the game either A: Hasn't had enough time to form an opinion B: Intended on hating it before owning it or C: Doesn't own it yet.
Will it eventually be an example. Entirely possible. But adding it right now is incredibly dumb.
Edited by Larkmarn Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
I personally think it's just above average in general, and about average for a Pokemon game. It doesn't deserve high praise, but it doesn't deserve complete bashing either. I say this as someone who has beaten the game and did mostly enjoy my time with it.
Although honestly even my middle of the road impression is still just one drop in the bucket when fans seem to either completely love or completely hate this game. Either way, isn't there like a six month waiting period for such divisive tropes? At least for Broken Base there is, I think.
Too early to call on this. Though if anything, I'd say it's receiving mixed opinions from fans on account of most of the negativity being based on controversy.
I don't see valid reasons to don't put this on YMMV page aside from some people being very defensive about the game (and by proxy calling every people talking bad about it as "hater") or because "it's Pokémon". Plenty of people played it and do not agree with the critics, often mentioning the short campaign, the underwhelming graphics, animation glitches, not all Pokémons and moves, mechanics scrapped and other reasons. One of biggest examples of this trope on this year and maybe the biggest example on this franchise.
If this page doesn't get this entry, we should scrap about 80% of critical dissonance entries from the entire website.
Ideal and the Real
The characters in this game are very, very expressive, especially the Gym Leaders, Bede, and Oleana. Gordie, Bede, and Raihan's cocky but confident mugs all stick out to me. Nessa, despite being calm and composed, completely loses it in frustration after the battle before she regains her composure. Even the protagonist has some good expression, at like through the Pokemon Curry feature, where they elate upon having a nice meal. In battle, the protagonist is also expressive when Dynamax Energy is ready (and when Dynamaxing), a determined expression when facing a Dynamax Raid Pokemon, and sometimes has a contemplative look at times throughout the battle. Even Sonia gets a real cute moment in Circhester where if you direct her attention to the poster in the restaurant rather than the tapestry, she is astounded, but then basically goes >.< when she realizes she got distracted.
So with all that in mind, would this count as Author's Saving Throw? I feel like one criticism of Sun and Moon in particular was the protagonist's expressionless, vacant blank stare that would ruin some scenes when there's a lot of tension. The other characters would emote just fine, but I feel like here it's on a whole other level, almost as if in response to that.
Request to add EXP Candies under Game Breaker. On account of being able to join ANY raid battles going on in your vicinity, it's entirely possible to get lots of them early on and get a level 60 starter before stepping foot in the first gym.
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After some reconsideration, maybe they should just be Disc-One Nuke instead?
A possible YMMV addition for They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character: Rillaboom has the drummer theming, and can learn sound-based Normal-type moves Uproar and Boomburst. Imagine if Rillaboom had Grass/Normal typing, allowing said moves to be Stab?
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That's misuse of They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character. They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character is about characters that people feel don't get enough screentime or plot relevance, and nothing in that proposed statement follows that.
A better example of the trope would be the Draco-, Arcto-, -Zolt, and -Vish fossil monsters. It would have been cool to see and use the ancient creatures as they actually were, as opposed to the Body Horror incarnate amalgamates we got in-game.
That's also a misuse. The actual ancient creatures never make any appearances, and therefore they have no character to waste. And no, parts of said creatures being present in the game is not the same.
UB-01 Nihilego
Some new possible examples for Memetic Mutation: Snomposting (Twitter account @snomposting has made a name for themself photoshopping the Pokemon Snom into various locations. This has entertained many fans and made Snom into an Ensemble Dark Horse) and Weeaboo Raboot (Because of his headband, face mask, hair spikes, and unamused expression, many have compared Raboot to Kakashi. This has led to a glut of jokes about how Raboot is an Occidental Otaku.)
Edited by FlamingMercury5
Ball guy seems to be pretty liked amongst the fandom. Do you think he’d qualify as an ensemble darkhorse?
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You mean Falinks? Sounds likely, but we will wait for enough evidence to see if Falinks have enough popularity to fit into the Ensemble Darkhorse category or not.
Edited by ViralLight Hello! :3
They’re talking about the guy dressed up in a pokeball costume who hands you an Apricorn pokeball in each gym.
Falinks itself is pretty popular too. I've seen a lot of fan art of Appletun (the evolution of Applin via the Sweet Apple, found only in Shield) as well.
I'd say one of the biggest Ensemble Darkhorses in Sword and Shield is Snom. Its unusual but cute appearance has caused it to gain many, many fans.
So now that the game has been out for a few days, any chance we can unlock the YMMV page?
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I think the related threads argued we keep it locked until the backlash dies down. Any sign this is the case?
It's still bad. Facebook comments continue to get angry faces in the likes, pro-dexers are filling review sites with unconstructive negative reviews. Even Bulbapedia had articles vandalized several times just before the total edit lock.
At this rate, it would be remain a volcanic topic well into the following year.
The honorable Prince of the Sea: Manaphy
God knows what's going to happen after Home comes out early next year and those who are unaware of the cuts find out about the situation, not to mention any controversy that might arise as a result of whatever features the app does or doesn't have. On top of that, there are a number of people pissed off about how the game detrimentally utilises the Switch's NAND.
Probably best to keep this page locked for a while longer. It's not like there's anything super urgent that needs to be put up ASAP, and people can still make suggestions in the Locked Pages thread.
What do you guys think about the final starter evolutions
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So I guess you guys have nothing to say about them
Edited by tropeking123
Does anybody like Hop? I've been reading a lot of people's statements around the internet as to how much they loathe him for being highly similar to Hau and much more intrusive than he ever was, but if he's got a fair share of fans then that wouldn't make him The Scrappy.
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Definitely not The Scrappy because I came across a few people who also like Hop. Maybe Base-Breaking Character?
I could see him qualifying as base-breaking, but that means that his entry would have to wait 6 months to be posted, and I'm not sure a few people are willing to wait that long
I can't draw
Potentially even a Replacement Scrappy, considering the comparisons to Hau.
Target demographic of Star Fox Zero
I feel that all three Galar starters having high speed can fall under Author's Saving Throw. The Alola starters got some flak for all being very slow, but both Cinderace and Inteleon have above 110 Speed and the slowest (Rillaboom) is still moderately fast at 85 Speed - which is higher than Decidueye, oddly enough.
I also have a couple suggestions for Replacement Scrappy:
-Gigantamax Charizard, for the Mega Charizards. The main issue here is that G-Max Zard keeps base Zard's unpopular type combination and underwhelming stats, which makes it a very disappointing replacement for both MCX (Fire/Dragon type) and MCY (huge Sp. Atk stat and an ability that complements it). Additionally, its reveal pushed Charizard further into Creator's Pet territory for many people, and people seemed to be disappointed and underwhelmed upon its reveal rather than elated like with the Megas (especially X).
-The four fossil Pokémon (Dracozolt, Arcozolt, Dracovish, Arctovish) for previous fossil Pokémon. While previous fossils were well-liked for having cohesive designs and bringing various prehistoric creatures into the Pokémon world (none of them were truly disliked, and the Kanto and Kalos fossils stand out to me as exceptionally popular), people seem to heavily dislike the Galar fossils for their gimmicky and unappealing designs and being a humorous exaggeration of the real-life phenomenon of mismatched fossils that results in freakish creatures rather than coherent animals like Brontosaurus was. They also bring up the aspect of They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character, as their parts come from species frequently requested for Pokémonship such as raptors, Stegosaurus and Dunklosteus.
Edited by 2HeadedMoonOctopus Hide / Show Replies
Maybe also mention how both Bulbasaur and Squirtle being scrapped added a lot of fuel to the fire?
Oh absolutely. Though it was mitigated slightly when the Bulbasaur and Squirtle lines were revealed to be in the code.
Anjail
Can this be added?
- Fanfic Fuel: Continuing from Sun and Moon. Regional variants got an even bigger boost in ideas since not only can Regional Variants have evolutions that are exclusive to them by either evolving from Pokémon that originally didn't have them or completely replace another evolution instead.
I think a note should be added that the Zodiac Fire Starter theory. The theory only really works, and is only really popular, outside of Asia. The note doesn't need to go into too much detail, but the ways that Western fans stretch the rules to make it work would be dismissed rather quickly in Japan.
Fennikin is based on a fox, which is not part of the Eastern Zodiac and is only distantly related to dogs. Cyndaquil is based on an echidna, which aren't closely related to rodents and especially not rats at all. Within the culture and folklore of many East Asian societies, the fox and the dog are ascribed different elements, personalities, and mythical roles. This wouldn't be something that was overlooked or stretched for them to actively attempt to reference.
There were associated theories about the Grass and Water starters that got disproven fairly quickly, like "All grass types will be dinosaurs" and "All water types will be not-fully-aquatic animals." Bulbasaur debunked the first one out the gate since it's actually based on a toad, and Mudkip is based on the axlotl which is entirely aquatic.
Now that the game's been datamined and it's confirmed all old models are 100% the same, this page should be edited so that it's no longer ambiguous as to whether or not the 3ds models are being reused.
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Update: Not all the models are the same, but the vast majority are identical, and those that aren't have only minor edits.
I've also been told that the models have less polycounts than the 3DS models. Which doesn't make any sense on a console stronger than a Nintendo 3DS and come off as pretty lazy imo.
Edited by ViralLight Hello! :3
How credible is the source for this claim that the models are more-or-less identical? On the flip side, how credible is the counterclaim from this 3D artist
that the former claim is unreliable?
Even if they are proved to not be identical (....I mean Ash won a league, odder things have happened), the sheer storm of rage that started would probably be worth a trope catalog, just with a clear statement of 'supposed reused models' or some sorch.
Scampton
Another Hilarious in Hindsight for this very wiki
- The glitchmon Xu-xu has a base stat total of around 820 and was thought to be so powerful that the glitchmon nightmare fuel page explicitly said that if Arceus got a mega it still wouldn’t top it. Eternatus‘ Eternamax form, though not playable, dwarfs this with a base stat total of over 1000
Anjail
Can or should this be added to Tainted by the Preview?
- Many fans are rather disappointed that the 2nd wave of Gigantamax Pokémon shown were all Gen 1 Pokémon. Considering the fact the video has 25% dislikes and the fact many people of the fandom are sick of Pandering to the Base with Generation 1 instead of also focusing on other generations like Gen 6 did with Mega Evolution.
- Many fans are rather disappointed that the 2nd wave of Gigantamax Pokémon shown were all Gen 1 Pokémon. Considering the fact the video
On top of that, I'm wondering if Gigantamax Charizard could even end up under The Scrappy. Yes, it's Charizard, but the combination of its blatant preferential treatment over other Kanto starters (to the point that they aren't even usable in any capacity) and its failure to even meet the basic fandom wish fulfillment of being Fire/Dragon like Mega Charizard X means I've seen it get almost no positive attention so far in the online communities I've checked, though I could be wrong.
For research purposes, has anyone seen an online forum where people have reacted with glee towards G-Max Zard (and not just lukewarm indifference)?
Edited by 2HeadedMoonOctopus
I feel like Charizard could be seen more as Creator's Pet (if that's YMMV that is) considering how much attention it seems to receive all the damn time.
And personally no, I haven't seen anyone who was genuinely, unironically excited for G-Max Charizard. At best the reaction I've just seen was "great, another one?"
I feel that it could qualify as a Replacement Scrappy for the Mega Charizards. Now that the games are out, it isn't getting the excessive hate that it got upon its reveal, but people still seem to be disappointed. The main issue is that it replaces Charizard's Fire/Dragon-type form, thus undoing a long-requested change.
Ideal and the Real
I think the Gym Leader music should be added under Awesome Music. It's actually dynamic, and the track gets more intense the further into the battle you go. That's a pretty nice touch.
Add the "Pokémon Attacc and Pokémon Protecc" meme to the Memetic Mutation entry when the edit block is undone.
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Memetic Mutation entry: "They just casually killed God" or some permutation thereof, which has sprung up recently due to Arceus being cut from the Pokedex.
Edited by CauchyRerunWhen
Hilarious In Hindsight entry: Greedent's fatness, color scheme, gluttony and stupid nature make it sound mighty similar to Richard Watterson.
- "The reveal of the map, specifically the snow-capped mountains, led to speculation that any new Ice-types would be reserved for late-game."
Is "There's going to be Ice Pokemon in the icy area" really enough of a limb to go out on to qualify as Epileptic Trees? I always thought that was reserved for the wildest fan theories.
And on that subject, I just thought it might be appropriate to acknowledge Yamper's reveal in the section speculating about the UK royals having equivalents in the game, since it's based on a dog breed the queen famously has a lot of.
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Again on for this section, I think it should be mentioned that some people theorize Marnie is related to Grimsley because of similarities in their designs
Does #Thank You Game Freak count as a meme? The recent backlash of Sword and Shield from detractors and fans who started harassing the staff online due to lack of National Dex caused the meme to be born because of a news that Game Freak morale is very low to the point they canceled a live event for Sword and Shield.
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If it's hate based, it's not a meme. Though the news about the morale would fall under Creator Breakdown. Months of harassments and death threats can damage morale, and lead the developers to cancel events out of fear for their lives.
The honorable Prince of the Sea: Manaphy
The meme originally started by a youtuber to help raise the morale in Game Freak from what I have seen and most of it is about players thanking Game Freak for all the love and work they put. There are sarcastic comments here and there but most of them are positive ones to thank Game Freak.
Currently Suspended
Memetic Mutation: The Galarian Weezing is often compared to Doug Dimmadome.
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Also a case of Unfortunate Character Design, as it heavily resembles a bong. In addition, Gigantamax Pikachu's resemblance to his original, sizably pudgier form has spawned a few "Fat Pikachu" memes here and there.
The Scarlet Queen
I've been seeing these pop up in various places, so I figured they could go on the page:
- Memetic Mutation:
- "You're not you when you're hungry."explanation
- Viewer Gender Confusion: A number of fans believed that Bede was an old woman upon first glance, mainly thanks to his hairstyle.
I'd also like to point out that no one really expect some Galarian Form Pokémon to have a cross-generational evolution. Cross-Generational Evolution wasn't used since Generation 6 (or Generation 4, in case of multiple Cross-Generational Evolutions), but nobody expected that to be used to expend Galarian Regional Forms.
Yes, only Obstagoon is revealed as the one Cross-Generation Evolution for Galarian Forms, but the official website said that "Living in the unique environment of the Galar region, some regional forms have developed unique Evolutions unseen in any other region. Obstagoon, which evolves from Galarian Linoone, is one example" in the page about Obstagoon itself. Would this count as Unexpected Character? If so, I got the entry covered in case the edit become unlocked, though some quality control will be appreciated.
- Unexpected Character: In a trailer released at August 8th 2019, the Zigzagoon line having a Galarian Form may be a mild surprise to some, but the fact that Galarian Linoone can evolve into a whole new species called Obstagoon took even more fans by surprise, since a new, region-exclusive evolution within a line of regional form never happened in Pokémon Sun Version and Moon Version. It does help that official Pokémon website revealed in Obstagoon's page that some Galarian Forms will have an exclusive evolution, with Obstagoon being one example.
And the fact that Meowth is now a Longcat in its new Dynamax form should either go under Hilarious in Hindsight or Memetic Mutation.
Edited by CauchyRerunWhen
I feel these should be added once the block is removed.
- And The Fandom Rejoiced:
- The reveal of Galarian forms, which had many fans crying out in joy that regional variants aren't going to be a one generation gimmick like Mega Evolutions and Z-Moves.
- Bede, one of the new rivals, seems to be the Jerkass rival that fans have long been hoping for with his smug looks and haughty attitude.
And The Fandom Rejoiced doesn't go under YMMV. It goes under it's own page. You can add it there now.
A few entries to see what everyone thinks:
- Fandom Rivalry: The National Dex debacle has split the fandom in twain.
- On one side is the side furious with the removal. They take Accentuate the Negative to an insane degree, mocking preview videos and screenshots as if the game is complete and Game Freak is just sitting on it until November. They claim other Pokemon-related games, up to and including a Chinese bootleg game, has better graphics and animations than Sword and Shield, which they claim is just imported models from the Nintendo 3DS era (a major reason why they believe Masuda is lying out of his ass over why he isn't bringing over the entire Pokemon roster). They have also reached "Stop Having Fun" Guys-levels as they demand that everyone boycott the game and that anyone who accepts the game as is are nothing more than "fake fans".
- The other side are fans who really have little or no stakes in the National Dex debate. They believe that it's insane that these fans really want nearly two-thousand Pokemon (including shinys and Alolan variants) in the first game for the Nintendo Switch. They're a more mindful of the preview videos and screenshots and feel that the angry fans are just holding Game Freak and Masuda to an insane level of standards, as if their first outing to the Switch has to be just perfect. The big thing is that they're absolutely tired of being insulted by the toxicity of these fans.
- Scapegoat Creator:
- Junichi Masuda, big time. Despite explaining why he did what he did, the fans who are furious over the National Dex's removal accuse him of being a Generation 1-shilling lazy hack who is destroying everything fun about Pokemon.
- On a larger scope, Game Freak as a whole. This was due to the fact that fans learned that Sword and Shield was being worked on by a "B Team" of creators while their "A Team" was working on a possible new IP. To the angry fans, this shows that Game Freak no longer cares for the Pokemon franchise as a whole and a new group needs to take it over.
Unfortunately, those who are okay with the dex cut are the neutral faction. It's hard to find defenders of the game when replies to every Facebook post (even those relating to earlier games, the anime, Masters, or GO) get angry faces in the "likes" and bring the topic up in a harsh and increasingly militant tone, and those who try to reason are attacked and forced to take their replies down (and some even had to lock their accounts to combat cyberbullying).
The pro-dexers also control the official reddit page, so being neutral there is likely to get you kicked out, too.
It's getting out of hand, and I've read a few comments from the pro-National Dex crowd that state they hope Game Freak will have the same fate as Kyoto Animation. Hence, "increasingly militant".
The honorable Prince of the Sea: Manaphy
It would probably be better to put everything under Broken Base instead of Fandom Rivalry, since it is only the Pokemon fanbase we're talking about, and mentioning all three groups of thought (the extremely hostile pro-dexers, the neutral third party tired of it all, and the Game Freak supporters who are to scared to speak up) would be better.
Although, by this point it would also be worth the mention that most everyone has (mostly) calmed down by the time the August trailer released.
Edited by 3from2k
The Scarlet Queen
I have an entry I'd like to add under Epileptic Trees, since I've been seeing this theory pop up a lot:
- After they were first revealed, people immediately started guessing that Chairman Rose and Oleana would secretly be the heads of the game's evil team, in the same vein as Lysandre and Lusamine before them. Tying in to the "Leon is secretly evil" theory, it's also been suspected that they're either manipulating or outright blackmailing the Champion to some extent in order to get him to assist with their plans.
Requesting replacing the link to the Dynamax (Brand New World) song under Awesome Music with the following link, as the original video linked got taken down on copyright grounds: https://youtu.be/kw1IOfH56ZM
Request to add Internet Backdrift to the YMMV area due to Masuda's recent statement clarifying that while some pokemon will not be in Sw Sh, they will eventually return in a later game. The results have only reignited the recent controversy with many "simplifying" the message as, and a quote, "fuck you". Rule of cautious editing may have to be invoked.
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Internet Backdraft is now considered Flame Bait and has been dewicked.
Ryoko.
Besides the reason this page was locked in the first place was to stop complaining and Edit Wars over the National Dex controversy.
Edited by ADrago
Your opinion on this being added to Memetic Mutation's entry:
- Pokemon Smuggling - as part of the #BringBackNationalDex broughhaha, the fandom has been creating various pieces of fan art and edits in which various Pokemon that people believe will not be in the game, either on their own or via their trainers, disguise themselves to get into Galar. This includes painting themselves to resemble Pokemon confirmed to exist, using their powers to disguise themselves and even hiding inside Pokemon like Wooloo.
Ideal and the Real
Where is it stated that the game is a Wide-Open Sandbox? I thought the Wild Areas between towns were basically just routes of previous games but just bigger. Wide-Open Sandbox suggests stuff like gyms being done in any order and being able to go literally anywhere.
Been starting to see some backlash to the backlash of the Pokedex fiasco, mostly people stating they dislike how nasty and toxic the community has gotten over it. It's apparently not uncommon for the enraged fans to harass and belittle people who state that they're anything but overwhelmingly furious about the decision. The admin of Serebii for example has been receiving toxicity for not being "angry enough" despite also openly being disappointed. On top of it I've seen a good amount of people on comment sections of news sites being more understanding towards the decision, as well as one of the Runaway Guys if I recall correctly. Should this be noted somewhere?
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"Backlash to the Backlash" is not a unique phenomenon, it happens any time a video game gets a significant enough amount of negative press. Whether this is because of people being too toxic or people getting bored of hearing about the issue is difficult to determine. It would probably need a trope on it's own as it's such a common and predictable response.
Should the "Five Minute Pokemon Render" meme be considered for "Memetic Mutations"? For those who don't know...
https://twitter.com/hashtag/83%9D82E3%83E3%83E5%88%8683E3%83%8783E3%83E3%82%B0?src=hash This tag
This tag here, due to people saying that "all it takes is five minutes to make a Pokemon model" due to the Nationa L Dex Controversy, people in Japan and the West have been jokingly making models in five minutes or less.
Would that consider "Big enough" to fit in Memetic Mutation since it blew up as a hashtag there?
Edit: https://twitter.com/deb_lal_/status/1139979096073658370 An actual Tweet with the hashtag since it looked like Twitter broke it on TV Tropes. I do apologize if they keep breaking. #ポケモン5分モデリング is the actual tag for it if all my examples are breaking.
You can write and request a Memetic Mutation example about the 5 minute Pokemon render hashtag in the Locked Pages thread.
Edit: I went ahead and suggested an example to be added there.
Would this be an acceptable addition to the Internet Backdraft entry for the pokemon being cut.
- Adding even more fuel to the fire was Masuda's later statement that part of the reason for the change was due to giving individual Pokemon "Higher fidelity with higher quality animations". Enraged fans quickly pointed out that the majority of the animations and models shown so far seemed to had been lifted straight from Sun and Moon.
Might be worth mentioning that the majority of the animations have been the same since X and Y.
As far as I care, add it in. Its entirely justified seeing how they have been lifting the same work since 2013.
So I moved this over here for discussion, because something about this sounded like it didn't belong on Tainted By The Preview. But I want a few second opinions on this to see what should be done about it, or if it should just be left alone.
- The exact reason for this, that being the matter of development time, didn't help matters, since the video game industry had just gone through a series of very nasty extended scandals involving game development deadlines and how this leads to Obvious Betas and brutal crunch time for workers. This is compounded as, on the very same day, Nintendo made a public discussion about trying to prioritize the quality of their games and workers over hitting an exact deadline, a statement which makes Gamefreak look completely out of touch with the games they're developing.
- The exact reason for this, that being the matter of development time
Well that is a MASSIVE controversy, on both sides of the pacific apparently, so it does deserve mention at the very least. If not....well we sound cowardly and corporate mouthpiecy.
If it remains controversial after the game is out, then we can add it back. Maybe they'll do something to fix this (have enough popular mons to be tolerable, promise to patch in the rest later) by then.
I dont think the Dynamax mechanic belongs under Holy Shit Quotient. Most reactions to it Ive seen are lukewarm at best and vitriolic at worst; perhaps the response belongs under Broken Base or even Internet Backdraft. However, the trailer did release just today, so maybe we should wait a month or two before adding it to one of those entries. For now, is it alright if I remove the HSQ entry?
Edited by canidApath Hide / Show Replies
I don’t know. In my own experience, everyone I saw seemed really excited to be having “Kaiju battles”. I only saw one person who was less than excited.
Ryoko.
I agree with canidApath, I've seen lots of hate online.
SP00PY month!
While I have seen fans divided on the feature, Broken Base shouldn't be added until 6 months to see if fans are still arguing about it then.
Yeah, I fully understand the sentiment of not adding either of those entries until later down the line. That being said, Dynamax doesn't seem to belong under HSQ. Should I remove it?
It's been less than two days since the first trailer and there are already fourteen entries under Memetic Mutation. That is ridiculous. We shouldn't go listing every random joke that we see on social media that's going to be forgotten in a week or two. The only one seems valid to me is the "Pokemon Gun version" entry.
I removed Flight1's additions to the page because they were borderline Justifying Edits. They didn't suffer from poor indentation, and the information wasn't wrong, but both came off as justifying perceived flaws in the game(s), so I got rid of them.
For the first example, the fact that Magnolia is retiring as a professor does not necessarily mean that her role had to be as minimal as it was. For the second example, pointing out that many games reuse assets misses the point IMO — the problem is that they used "we've improved the animations" as a justification for Dexit and showed off unimpressive animations.
Edited by MathsAngelicVersion