Discussion YMMV / MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS6E6NoSecondPrances

I think the page should be shut down because we're reaching Edit War territory here. Someone deleted the "Designated Hero" entry for unknown reasons.

I'm just going to leave the page alone for a day or so, because I've been messing with it a lot.

For the record, I deleted the entry for Designated Hero because I felt that the usage felt wrong and after rewatching the episode again, I still feel it was used wrong.

I do agree that, in a way, it is reaching Edit War levels, but I feel that the tropes need to be heavily reworked as it feels like the entire YMMV page is "Trixie was awesome! Everything else sucked and we're going to nitpick every last bit of it!"

You have to have a better reason than that besides "I feel".

If you just disagree with it, if you believe it's wrong, that's fine, but "feeling" doesn't prove things wrong. You have to be more specific, which is what the part you deleted was. It didn't just say "Twilight is this just because she's a mean old poopyhead and Trixie ROXORS", it gave reasoning for why. It was specific.

A Designated Hero is a character that is portrayed to be heroic and right and that we should all root for, despite their actions and attitudes being far from just and heroic. Twilight was right (to an extent), but she was judgmental, petty, hypocritical, and self-centered. The very same things that makes Trixie (and Starlight Glimmer when she was evil) villainous.

This wasn't a case of a "well-intentioned innocent pony who just made a mistake". Starlight Glimmer had good intentions as a dictator, but she was still a villain, because she was a selfish hypocrite. Twilight knew what was going on, knew what she was doing wasn't right, but willfully decided to go up the "jerk" scale.

That's why I believe (not feel) Twilight cared more about being right, didn't really care about Starlight either, and is a Designated Hero.

You just said, "I felt it was wrong" therefore it is wrong and had to be deleted. Well, WHY is it wrong?

Well, speaking for my part, I think Twilight fails the "designated" part. She was shown spying on them, obsessing over the dinner with Celestia more than helping Starlight meet new ponies, and Starlight called her out on acting a bit creepy. I don't think it was the writer's intent for us to side with Twilight.

First off, I want to admit I was wrong to do what I did without a reason. I should have figured out what it was about that reasonably bugged me.

That being said, the Designated Hero trope doesn't fit here, especially the way it was written. The way it was written, Twilight was given this trope because she should have automatically accepted Starlight's choice of friends because she was the Princess of Friendship. That isn't Designated Hero, at the very most, that should be a case of Aesop Amnesia

"I don't think it was the writer's intent for us to side with Twilight."

Is that why in the end Trixie is the one who ends up rejected and crying over having screwed up and the one who has to reconcile?

Look at the main Trope page. Trixie is portrayed as a villain and one who can't be trusted and more. That's not intentional? All Twilight did was give a dumb apology in the end. The writers intended the audience to jump down Trixie's throat and side with Twilight.

The writers really wanted to cover up Twilight's behind here. She's was "right" and therefore is "the hero", despite her actions being far from heroic and just, and even after being called out by Starlight, went through her crusade to disrupt/stop her friendship. She didn't care about Starlight's progress, she just wanted to be right about Trixie. There's a reason why legions of fans, while praising the episode, are giving Twilight all kinds of grief. Because she was let off the hook for her atrocious behavior. Like Rainbow Dash in "Tanks For the Memories" and Pinkie Pie in "A Friend in Deed".

That is why I believe she's a Designated Hero.

No, it wasn't intentional. No one in this episode was the villain or the hero, which was the point. It was all misunderstandings and mistrust. Starlight wanted to make friends but showed off her magic in inappropriate ways; Trixie wanted to finally show up Twilight but actually became Starlight's friend; Twilight wanted Starlight to make friends but was worried Trixie was up to something.

The climax had both Trixie and Twilight apologizing to Starlight, with Twilight saying outright she was wrong and Trixie was sincere in wanting to be Starlight's friend. If we were supposed to agree with Twilight's actions, the writers wouldn't have had her admit to Starlight that her actions were wrong.

"No, it wasn't intentional. No one in this episode was the villain or the hero, which was the point."

The point is you keep ignoring and denying the fact that one of the characters is forced to reconcile and portrayed as heel for acting out of line (Trixie), while Twilight just has to "apologize", despite her equally bad and hypocritical behavior.

Twilight is a Designated Hero.

I'm going to be quite honest with you, Spanks - your argument comes off as petty and after looking at your edits, they come off as demonizing anyone not Trixie, Twilight especially. Your main argument towards calling Twilight a Designated Hero is essentially "How dare Twilight not accept Trixie right at the start!" The entire episode is essentially dealing with mistrust and how to work around it. There is no straight-forward answer to the problem at hand except for "try to make up and hope for the best"

Frankly, I'm going to go and fix those tropes so that they're neutral and not demonizing.

"I'm going to be quite honest with you, Spanks - your argument comes off as petty and after looking at your edits, they come off as demonizing anyone not Trixie, Twilight especially."

Okay, since we're going to be honest here, you have terrible argumentation. Once again, you call me out, but name no specifics. I just come off as petty because "you say so".

"Your main argument towards calling Twilight a Designated Hero is essentially "How dare Twilight not accept Trixie right at the start!"

More honesty coming up.

Not only do you have very poor argumentation, but now you're pulling stuff out of nowhere too. Where did you get THAT from?

You have some nerve to call me petty, when you want to start and Edit War and give no reasoning besides your hurt feelings? Petty? Or am I asking uncomfortable questions that are hard to answer?

I've been specific and backed up and defended my claims. You just plugged up your ears and said "that's wrong" because of your feelings.

"There is no straight-forward answer to the problem at hand except for "try to make up and hope for the best"

There is a straight-forward answer. It just isn't comfortable. The truth is a nasty thing, so we look for the easy answers, the convenient way out, the "neutral" way, so we don't want to question what we think and face reality in front of us.

I guess it's okay if you want to make the article more "neutral" though. But considering how vague you have been, I don't know. Neutral could mean "getting rid of things that hurts my feelings".

You claim I'm ignoring the fact that one of the characters was forced to reconcile and act like a heel. You're ignoring the fact that Twilight and Trixie both had to do so. Your wording marginalizes it, but yes, Twilight recognizes she was at fault, apologizes to both Starlight and Trixie, and helps the two make amends. She was wrong, she admits it, and she tries to fix her mistakes. That is not the behavior of a character the writers are trying to portray as the one in the right. Read the Designated Hero page and you will realize that, even in the narrative of this episode alone, Twilight does not fit the trope.

/notamod. I can see both sides are getting a bit heated. Though I have my own opinions on this I'm just going to say that maybe all parties should take a step back and cool off for a day or so before the mods have to issue bans to everyone on both sides. Remember they don't care who's right when issuing bans, just who's breaking the rules.

So I see the Broken Base got pretty much entirely axed by someone for not being neutral, but weren't most of the entries already providing more than one point of view? Doesn't that count as neutral?

I get that many of them sounded very accusing and I'm not a fan of unnecessary hate slinging, but it's just that whenever I see someone outright deleting most of an YMMV entry like that instead of changing the presentation to sound more civil, I feel like they want to hide the fact that it ever sparked any discussion or controversy.

"Read the Designated Hero page and you will realize that, even in the narrative of this episode alone, Twilight does not fit the trope."

So I read it. I'm just going to leave this alone.

I believe Twi was let off the hook, you don't. We'll just leave it at that. Mods are starting to take notice.

I'm glad I'm able to spark a little controversy by asking uncomfortable questions.

Broken Base has nothing to do with the quality of the episode. It can be overall well received while still having detractors, or even those who like it felling some aspects could have been done better.

Okay, but it seems a bit of a stretch to call this "the first major Broken Base episode of the season." I've seen folks who didn't care for the premiere and/or the Gift of the Maud Pie.

The fact that this page is reaching dangerous Edit War territory proves there's a broken base. Broken Base doesn't reflect the quality of an episode. The episode itself is perfectly competent, but it still created tons of arguments and clashing viewpoints.

Mysterious Mare Do Well was "well-received" too, but it is still one of the more infamous episodes.

As was The Crystal Empire, a fellow premiere.