Please add this to Harsher in Hindsight: James Bond vs John Wick had Bond win, and Wick dies in John Wick Chapter 4.
Edited by JewelpetRuby Hide / Show Replies
Nice unmarked spoiler jackass.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Please add Play-Along Meme to this page: -The fight between Wally West and Archie Comics' Sonic the Hedgehog ends with the latter being hit with enough intensity to erase him from existence. Afterwards, it became a common joke for fans to not recognize characters from, mentions of, and allusions to Sonic the Hedgehog, as well as "complain" that the title was just "Wally West VS (DC VS)", the thumbnail just had him with the right side blank, and the animation was just him running around punching the air. -The same thing would occur with Rick vs. The Doctor, where it ended with Rick getting hit by the Doctor's Dematerialization gun, therefore erasing him from existence, time and pretty much everything as a whole. Much like the above example, it's fairly common for people to ironically complain that the episode was just 22 minutes of radio silence other than The Doctor's analysis, the title just being "VS The Doctor (VS Doctor Who)", the thumbnail only having The Doctor with the left side blank, or that the fight was just The Doctor talking to thin air and swinging a spoon around, and confusion on Morty "from the hit Adult Swim show Morty" making a cameo appearance at the end.
You think that Toonforce users should be considered Memetic Badasses? All of them have won their fights, and the one time we had a toon vs toon fight, neither died. Plus, toonforce is a very hyped up thing in vs communities, and death battle is no exception.
If archie sonic is a mememetic badass, should wally west also be one ?
Omni man vs Homelander should be considered as It Was His Sled, I Knew It! and Fandom Heresy
- For the first two, we all knew how the fight would end before and after it happened
- For Fandom Heresy, it's one of the only death battle (if not the only one) where everyone who watched it, the fandoms of both show and even the offical Twitter accounts for both The Boys (2019) and Invincible agree with said episode about who wins said fight.
nd for all there reasons, Homelander should also be considered a Memetic Loser. He's the weakest Superman Substitute ever created
Should ben vs hal be considered overshadowed by controversy? Because that episode is pretty known for its controversial outcome, more so than the episode itself.
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No. Overshadowed by Controversy refers to real life events or behind-the-scenes drama overshadowing something fictional. It doesn't refer to people hating something fictional.
I think I have an entry that should be added to Harsher in Hindsight:
- At the end of the analysis for the Tommy Oliver and the Dragonzord in Dragonzord VS Mechagodzilla, Wiz ends the analysis on a hopeful note, saying that since Tommy has regained his Green Ranger powers with the Master Morpher, perhaps one day the Dragonzord will rise again. Unfortunately on November 19, 2022 Tommy's actor, Jason David Frank, died, meaning now Tommy and the Dragonzord will likely never be seen again.
... no. "Actor has passed" is not an acceptable reason to add Harsher in Hindsight. At some point, we're all going to die.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Is there a YMMV trope which applies to match-ups which don't make sense thematically, such as Batman vs. Captain America or Roronoa Zoro vs. Erza Scarlet?
Please add this to Memetic Badass:
- SpongeBob is officially the strongest character ever made by Nickelodeon. His DEATH BATTLE! against Superfriends' Aquaman was so one-sided against Aquaman, no attempt was made to hide it. Every other cartoon character that fought a DC Comics character lost prior to this episode. And SpongeBob has the single fastest calculable speed feat in Death Battle history (key word "calculable"; Speed Force users and the Archie Hedgehogs still have him beat due to their literally impossible speed feats).
Please add this line to Unexpected Character:
- You'd think the title character of Sailor Moon would be its first character to appear here, but no, it's Sailor Galaxia.
When will the page be unlocked?? There's A LOT of stuff that needs to be unlocked! Who's in charge of this page??
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Probably never. It attracted loads and loads of complaining, arguing, and other problems.
If there's something you want changed, you have to propose it in this forum thread
and a moderator will do the edit for you.
Spectator
I'm Guessing the YMMV page is officially locked for good huh? Fair enough.
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I can't edit this page because its lovksd but I will say this part is a giant lie.
"Likewise, Ben and Chad seem to somehow feel that Goku is a mad berserker Blood Knight that will sacrifice whole planets and billions of innocent people if it sates his thirst for a good battle. The actual anime itself going on to somewhat validate this with the Tournament of Power hasn't helped matters anyway."
And someone should remove it because its very blatantly inaccurate.
When will this page be unlocked?? There's A LOT of stuff that needs to be updated!
Edited by Blade84
Harry Potter vs Luke Skywalker CRF:
I know that Critical Research Failure was banned from the DB YMMV page, but I found something that actually fits. In their Harry Potter vs Luke Skywalker video, they have Luke detect a weakness in Harry's scar using Shatterpoint. The thing is, anyone who has ever had a scar will tell you that they are not any weaker than other areas of the body. Even the average person should know that scars won't handicap you in a battle. Anyone should know that scars that have already healed are not weaker than other layers of skin. This isn't like all of the previous examples put up, which were clearly misuse. If CRF really can't be put on the ymmv page, I need to know what trope I CAN list this under, and their NEEDS to be one.
jjj
Is it possible for an Ass Pull section to be listed here? Or would it end up being like the Critical Research Failure section that was axed off?
Edited by Flamethrowerman09 Hide / Show Replies
Respectively, in my opinion, no and it absolutely would. Frankly, many of your edits have verged quite dangerously into Complaining About Results You Disagree With already.
Edited by SpectralTime
So, I'm seeing talk of a disparity between the consensus of the Death Battle research team and the results Ben and Chad put up on the show. I'd actually like to know where the research team's blogs or forums are, if they are public. I want to see their reasoning for myself.
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Here's ScrewAttack's official Death Battle forum: http://forums.screwattack.com/viewforum.php?f=37
Here's where the prediction blogs are posted: http://www.screwattack.com/user/TheOfficialDEATHBATTLEFanBlog
Hmm... They do seem to make their cases much better than the hosts do.
That said, these guys don't seem to be Screwattack employees. Do we really know that Ben and Chad are actually taking their findings into consideration? The methods used by the predictions blog and the methods seemingly used by Ben and Chad seem to be very different.
The fan blog's contributors are not on Screwattack's payroll as far as I can tell, so I don't think it's accurate to call them the "Death Battle research team" in any official capacity. The only real "Death Battle research team" that seems to exist appears to be Ben and Chad... though I heard they got someone else to help out after Dante VS Bayonetta, at least according to the DB forums. Presumably because Ben has his hands full these days.
Edited by Akamia
You'd think from this page that the only fights were the Superman vs. Goku, Gaara vs. Toph, and Tifa vs. Yang fight.
Never trust anyone who uses "degenerate" as an insult. Hide / Show Replies
There were entries for pretty much every fight, but they were deleted to make more room.
It's pronouced Per-i-doh not Peridot
umm can we remove parvum opis? Gaara vs Toph is not the most hated death battle, it appears that peach vs zelda is. Also i found that battle mostly fair. It just seems a vocal minority of anime/naruto fans hate it, most reactors seem fine with the results, as do most fans i talk to. (I have nothing against Peach vs Zelda, it is just it has the lowest like dislike ratio on youtube and gets the most flak from non zelda fans.) so can we remove parvum opis?
Edited by Penguinbowler Hide / Show Replies
Eh, this is kind of the thing with YMMV pages. I've complained about this before, but the fact is that there's a certain level at which if the trope can be argued to fit we have to allow it, since this IS "Your Mileage May Vary". Gaara/Toph definitely attracts more butthurt than most of the series, so leaving it seems okay to me.
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
i find peach vs zelda to attract more butthurt the toph vs gaara, outside its fandom, just naruto has the most vocal fandom, really do we take silent anger, or vocal minority?
Out of all deathbattles, excluding the obvious two, both of those battles have the highest amount of dislikes, which makes them both candidates. But while Gaara vs Toph is hated both on You Tube and the Deathbattle forums, Peach vs Zelda is only hated on youtube, so I believe Gv T deserves the spot more.
Isn't this a moot discussion? We removed the Parvum Opus trope about a month ago.
YMMV or not, I think we should consider axing the Critical Research Failure example. It's getting ridiculous with every single fight having an example from fanboys on the other side. I'm not sure it's worth the edit wars and fan wanking.
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Or the trope misuse - CRF is only for things where everybody would know that it's wrong, not just fans of the work.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I went ahead and axed the examples for now. It should say enough that I was going to copy them here to illustrate the misuse, but the list is just too long to merit that. The list will be hiding the page history if we decide to revert this later.
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While I don't agree that every single CRF comes from Fanboys, I will admit that you have a point with having to edit the page every episode because of one trope having to be edited over and over again. However, I say we compromise and have the trope have its own page for DB.
Edited by MLDKF
If there's a genuine research error, then it should indeed be acknowledge instead of hidden like what is currently going on here. Some examples on the page are very much CRF whereas some are not. Instead of axing the whole dang thing, I suggest we go over what examples truly were CRF and what was not.
If worst comes to worst... as much as it pains me to say it, what if we gave DB its own CRF page?
Also, if a troper provides proof of what they're saying is CRF, it's not wanking and it's not fanboyism, Db prides itself on "settling this debate once and for all" so when they make an error, it really sticks out. just throwing it out there.
I agree with Star on this one. I love DEATH BATTLE but their research as been spotty and sometimes outright wrong in the past. It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so conclusive with the settling this debate once and for all.
Indeed, it appear the general consensus here is that axing the entirely of SRF is not the right thing to do...
The issue seems to be that generally speaking most people seem to think with such vast and rich histories, its inevitable that the researchers will gets something wrong with just about every single match-up. I mean a lot of these characters have huge comic book histories and/or long TV shows or multiple movies or something that only shows up in a spin-off. Ultimately, it seems either we need to just axe it if you don't want to risk it flooding up the page, or make a separate page just for research failures so every episode can have one or two if needed.
I vote for another page, something about axing the whole thing seems more like an unintentional silencing tactic.
Plus, this shows demographic is mainly those interested in VS debating, Death Battle is far from the only thing that does this, if the Outskirts Battledome, VS Battle Wiki, Power Crunch, and Fatal Fiction can tell you. When they make a flub up in VS debating, the demographic will know; while casual fans may not be aware of the flub up, those who know how to VS debate will.
I agree with making a Critical Research Failure subpage for Death Battle. For one, it would be easier to keep track of than keeping it on the main YMMV subpage.
Edited by VeryMelon
The number of legitimate examples(ie- that anyone with cursory knowledge about the subject can note) is sufficiently big to justify a page?
Some of them are legitimate complaints, some are indeed pointless nitpicking by fussy people.
I guess I'd argue that, while it might better be described as Cowboy BeBop at His Computer or Dan Browned, there should be room made for grievances aired against poor research in a show that purports to do its homework. Every fight doesn't draw this controversy, after all: nobody's mentioned, say, Hawkeye vs. Green Arrow or Darth Vader vs. Doctor Doom.
Unless there is a specific trope for "People who usually do the research make a critical screw-up that taints the rest of the work."
So does it end up a CRF page, a Cowboy Bebop page, or split them into both seperating the genuine examples with the obscure examples.
In my opinion, definitely a Cowboy Bebop page, a lot of the gripes I remember from CRF, mine included, were more from the viewpoint of a fan who knows something major from the lore that was wrong, like Thor's Hammer, Princess Peach's Vibe Powers, etc., but that wouldn't be a CRF.
Honestly, a CRF would be like, they used bad science or something that everyone knows is false. Which really, they're science at often at least seems sound and not a CRF.
Again, I vote for a Bebop page, which would be a lot more useful for fan gripes about Gaara's sand and Ryu's Vajra telportation device.
Edited by DarkMask
Again, I vote we take a look at the examples (as well as future ones) and see which examples fall under what.
Example:
Claiming Mjolnir weighs a million tons as opposed to 42.3 pound? CRF
Kunoichi being a name for a female ninja distractio tactic as opposed to just a female ninja? Bebop for the most part.
Why can't we just have a dual page then, instead of deciding one or the other? Just a 'things that the show got wrong, both super obvious to everyone and only obvious to hardcore fans'? Seems like both CRF and Bebop are similar enough to justify sharing a Death Battle sub-page.
We can't have that because the "only obvious to hardcore fans" trope was cut years ago.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
As Septimus has said, the issue here above all else is that these things are not Critical Research Failure. All else aside, the trope was not being properly used in even a single one of the examples posted.
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
So... in other words, there's no section or trope where Death Battle can be called out on the flaws in its research, obvious to everyone or not?
Edited by Arawn999
Again, the flaws that were listed there were not in any way obvious to everyone. They were obvious to fans of the series, perhaps, but not to everyone.
There WAS a trope for what you want. It was Did Not Do The Research. It is gone now. If you have a problem with the situation, the problem should be with TV Tropes for removing that trope, but that is a separate discussion from this.
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I remember when that existed. Wasn't it revamped into Critical Research Failure?
No, the two existed concomitantly. Did Not Do The Research was purged for being nothing but hate wank. Around the same time the "You Fail Troping Forever" group was reworked.
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Actually, the DNDTR purge happened a year after the "You Fail" rework.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
So, in summery there's nothing that can be done to catalogue Death Battle's research errors - even non-subjective ones like giving the incorrect definition of kunoichi - since the only trope that would have fit was purged?
Edited by Arawn999
Pretty much. Again, if you have a problem with this, it's a problem with the wiki policy on the matter.
To be honest, DNDTR was killed for a reason, and nothing that serves the exact same purpose is going to lead to anything better.
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
So why do people keep removing the bit about Hiryu's "vajra" anyway?
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Did you ask them?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Something to add for Catharsis Factor;
- Regardless of whether you're a Brony or not, and despite him losing by the actual Death Battle rules, it's incredibly gratifying to see Discord absolutely screw over Bill Cipher in his final moments. In one fell swoop, Discord dismantles Bill's Weirdmageddon, saves the MLP universe, and seals the one-eyed demon back in the Nightmare Realm forever; and it's all set up so his own death might not even stick for that long. Not only does that take the edge off Discord's technical loss, but Bill Cipher's fate — and resulting Villainous Breakdown — is absolutely deserved for someone as smug and horrifically evil as him.
Edited by GF93