The "Shout-Out" section has the following entry:
- The "battle in front of a waterfall" scene between Wolf Bill and the Lord Protector is an homage shot to the climactic Battle Amongst the Flames in The Lion King (1994).
A shout-out has to be an intentional reference put in by the creators and I've not yet been able to find any article, review, tweet, or other posting that supports this statement.
Tonally, the two scenes don't really match up as a direct homage... "Lion King" involves fire as the backdrop, "Wolfwakers" uses water. "Lion King" has Scar dying defeated at the jaws of the hyenas, whereas "Wolfwalkers" has The Lord Protector believing he is dying as a matyr.
I'm removing the entry for now and hopefully someone can provide a reference to it being a deliberate shout-out. Otherwise it's just a similarity noticed by the audience.
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Yeah, this honestly seems like a stretch. The only similarities between those scenes are that they're both climactic fights that take place at night.
Regarding this foreshadowing example:
- At one point, Robyn questions if the wolves are also wolfwalkers. Mebh giggles in disbelief "Jeepers no! Are you mad? How big do you think my family really is?" Towards the end of the story, Robyn and Bill (who both became wolfwalkers) join Mebh and Moll's pack, truly making Mebh's family twice as big as before. And it doesn't hurt that it's implied Bill and Moll become a couple.
I keep looking this over and it just doesn't fit right for me.
There's a difference between an intentional clue the creator put in the work to predict a future event and something that the audience uses to connect the narrative that is picked up during Fridge reflection or movie rewatch.
Given the light-hearted nature of the scene and that the focus is on Robyn and Mebh's budding friendship, it just doesn't' feel like the writers to trying to signal that Mebh's family size is going to change by the end of the film. Yes, that's what happens but it just doesn't feel like an intentional foreshadow.
Thoughts?
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I would like to propose that the page quote be changed to this origin story as originally presented in the Wolfwalkers Graphic Novel and also in the recent (March 2021) St Patrick's day Wolfwalkers animated short from Cartoon Saloon narrated by Eva Whittaker (Mebh's voice actress) which you can
see here
:
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''In the Kingdom of Osraighe, there was a tribe with the power to heal.
When Naomh Patrig (Saint Patrick) came to tell the people of the new religion, they stayed apart from the other tribes. They would not give up the old ways.
When the holy man preached, they howled like wolves from the forest to remind the people that there was another, older wisdom in the woods.
Some say Naomh Patrig cursed them; others that he blessed them. But the result was the same — for evermore, they would walk as people by day and roam as wolves by night. ''
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This was proposed before but there was some disapproval because it wasn't directly from the movie. In light of the recent animated short and its appearance in the graphic novel, it satisfies both Word of God and All There in the Manual.
It is a good overall origin for the Wolfwalkers and I feel it is great candidate for the page quote.
Edited by rva98014 Hide / Show Replies
It is a good quote, but personally I think it's a little too All There in the Manual to be the header. The movie isn't very mainstream as it is, so it might be better to have a quote from the movie itself. If the quote does stay up, it would be best to indicate that it's from the graphic novel adaptation, not the movie itself.
Troper Morgisboard and I tried different page quotes but the problem is there really isn't anything in the movie that does a good job conveying the backstory of the Wolfwalkers.
There's Sean Og's line about Wolfwalkers...
This, in my opinion, is a bit meandering and focuses mainly on the healing without talking about the actual becoming a wolf.
And there's the conversation between Mebh and Robyn...
This covers how the "curse" is transmitted and that they become an actual wolf but it's a bit flippant because it's Mebh giving the details. Plus this line along with the poster on the page can give the misleading impression that ONLY FEMALES become Wolfwalkers.
As I said, the current page quote comes from both the Graphic Novel and the St. Paddy's day blessing animated short released by Cartoon Saloon narrated by Eva Whittaker (Mebh's voice actress) which signals a Word of God blessing to this story.
I'd be fine identifying the source of the origin story and even including a link to the short to give weight that it's an official part of the Wolfwalker's cannon.
Edited by rva98014
So there's been a recent change to the page quote such that in now includes the entirety of the intro from the Graphic Novel.
When I first proposed that, the consensus was that it was a little too All There in the Manual and upon seeing it as the actual page quote, I feel it's a little too Wall of Text. Plus it duplicates information provided in the film summary put together by tropers.
I'd like to suggest that the page quote go back to the point where it cuts off at "keeping the peace between man and the wilderness." That version came from a St. Patrick's day special posted by Screen Ireland in conjunction with Cartoon Saloon which was a higher quality rendition of the Wolfwalker's origin.
In reviewing the definition and examples given for Undying Loyalty, I see that it's a trope designed for a non-family member having a strong bond of loyalty toward another character. It's currently used on the main trope page to describe Mebh's devotion to Moll even though it seems the more appropriate trope for this situation is Parents in Distress which is also on that page.
In addition, Mebh's character section has Extremely Protective Child which is for when a child character is just normally protective of their parent(s) against any physical or emotional threat.
Since, we only know Mebh for 2-3 days and there is clearly a Parents in Distress situation already underway, I don't feel we know enough about Mebh to really justify that she is always an Extremely Protective Child.
I'm looking for feedback but my suggestion is to remove Undying Loyalty and Extremely Protective Child from the main and character pages.
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I'm fine with removing Undying Loyalty if it is for non-family, but Mebh fits Extremely Protective Child. The trope doesn't really require Parents in Distress, it is broader than that, but that doesn't justify removal.
I agree that Mebh's actions fits Extremely Protective Child (EPC) but my point is that because of the short amount of time the movie covers, we never see Mebh's relationship with her mother outside of a Parents in Distress situation to be able to say she's extremely protective at all times under all situations physical and emotional which is the broader context the EPC covers.
If you look at the example for EPC, it focuses exclusively on Mebh's response to learning her mother has been captured and caged.
If you feel EPC applies, can you give me an example from the movie that doesn't include a Parents in Distress situation?
Mind you, I'm not saying that I don't see how EPC could apply... kinda. It's just that using only what the movie provides, it's not a strongly justified trope and the Parents in Distress is the more appropriate trope for this story to explain Mebh's actions.
The Filmmakers said that they deliberately did not refer to Cromwell by name to avoid a Inglorious Basterds depiction of history. Should this be reflected in the tropes page, aside from tropes like Artistic License – History, Alternate History, and Historical Domain Character? While the LP is based on Cromwell, I'm not entirely sure if it is truly meant to be him.
While I would like to, people are going to refer to the LP as Cromwell for shorthand anyway and it will be hard to be on top of every reference.
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Everyone Calls Him "Barkeep" and a note that while he is based on Cromwell he is deliberately unnamed so as to "avoid an Inglourious Basterds depiction of history" should cover it.
Also, since we want to get this standardized, should wolfwalkers (the people, not the title) be capitalized or not?
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Skimmed thru the graphic novel and every reference I see to "Wolfwalker" is capitalized. I'd be OK keeping that same convention here.
The OST, and the title at the start of the credits, also have it capitalized. Seems that that’s the correct way to write it.
Not really feeling the page quote. My suggestion:
Any others?
So I have reason to believe Moll and Mebh are Irish Travellers or at least based on them - they have the nomadic aesthetic and the vardo wagon at the end. Fun fact: genetic research suggests the settled Irish and traveller Irish separated around the time of Cromwell's invasion, possibly due to displacement both physical and cultural.
While Useful Notes pages usually aren't put on the tropes list, I wonder where we can put this in without seeming like shoehorning and getting it deleted. Maybe Shown Their Work,, Aluminum Christmas Trees, or even Magical Romani, but all seem like stretches.
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I’d say at most it might go on a WMG page. And given they seemed to have inhabited that den for a while I’d think it might be more accurate to suggest they became Travellers at the end of the movie.
It's an interesting observation but is speculation unless the creators mention they intentionally patterned Moll and Mebh after the travellers.
If there's something specific, like an item in the vardo at the end or the way that it's painted/decorated that is known to symbolically represent the travellers then you could consider Shown Their Work or Genius Bonus but put it on the Trivia page.
Otherwise, WMG would be the most likely home because of the speculation and it doesn't come into play in the story at any point.
Edited by rva98014
A Spanner in the Works example has been added that tries to set Mebh as the main spanner in the story:
Spanner in the Works is when a single character causes another's plan to unravel with the tiniest, most ridiculous thing. The problem here is that the example over-emphasizes Mebh's role in Act 2 and doesn't accurately capture all that happened.
Here's a review of the major plot beats from the time Robyn returns to the city but instead of going home and returning to her body, she goes to The Lord Protectors (TLP) castle alerting the entire city that a wolf is inside the gates in the process.
1) Robyn finds Moll, tries to free her and fails, Moll commands Robyn to tell Mebh to leave, Robyn escapes.
2) Next day, Robyn is stuck in scullery, can't meet Mebh at oak tree sends Merlyn instead.
3) Mebh sneaks inside city, finds Robyn in scullery.
4) Robyn tells Mebh she has to leave BUT DOESN'T TELL HER the command is from Moll.
5) Mebh feels betrayed and leaves the scullery but not the town.
6) TLP starts public taming of the Great Wolf. Mebh attempts to storm the stage.
7) Robyn tries to protect Mebh by caging her "for your own good"
8) Mebh escapes cage and leaps onto stage ruining TLPs show of strength and embarrassing him.
9) Mebh escapes soldiers, declares she's a Wolfwalker, threatens to invade city with wolves.
10) Robyn frees Moll, their breakneck escape stops Mebh from invading, Moll & Mebh reunite, Moll is shot by Bill.
11) TLP rallies the citizen's fear and proclaims he will invade forest and destroy the wolves.
Essentially there is no Spanner in the Works here, it's a combination of the actions of all the main characters (Mebh, Moll, Robyn, and Bill) that that interfere with the plans they have formed and leads to final confrontation in the forest.
I feel the example should be removed.
Edited by rva98014