Discussion Website / ChannelAwesome

Hmmm? I see the old name.

They're giving people until December 17 to save whatever pages they want before they close it down. I say we make the name change then.

Guys, they've made the transition, should we change the name now?

Yep, I think it's time.

• cough*

He was meant to be, but Michaud and Skype happened again.

The Speech doesn't apply to the Critic but it is about Doug Walker. If Doug Walker wasn't a fictionalized character in some of those stories then I would agree, but just taking "The Review Must Go On" as a singular story separate from "To Boldly Flee" (which is only relevant because TRMGO continues/references that story) it fits perfectly. If you see the other videos where the fictional Doug interacts with his characters it is more poignant, much like seeing all the various incarnations of Superman makes the trope namer more epic, but the portrayal of the Critic in various videos has no bearing on whether the trope counts.

This story hinges on Doug's internal strife over his choice to retire the Critic, with him coming to an empowering realization and becoming at peace with himself. I'm really curious how that isn't a "World of Cardboard" Speech.

How is it empowering when Doug looked miserable for the entire length of The Review Must Go On? Critic was threatening him every time he tried getting away.

Him being miserable throughout the TRMGO is kind of the point of the trope, he realized he wasn't ready to retire the Nostalgia Critic and the only reason he did was because he was burnt out. So he revived the character on his own terms and not trying to meet the demands of the fans or the other contributors of the site. I still don't see what you're getting at with how the TRMGO!Critic was portrayed and it's relation to the trope, Doug could have said the same thing to anyone and it would be the same.

He was miserable because of Critic taking on a life of his own and not leaving him alone. It wasn't "oh yay I can bring Critic back!", he had to be dragged back in and took a load of pills because he thought he was going crazy.

The Critic only appeared because Doug was miserable, he was a manifestation of his own issues. The story was not "leave me alone, Critic!" but "did I make the right choice?" otherwise why did he bother calling people asking that question. Claiming Doug was forced to bring back the Critic by some cosmic force against his will is false, everything you're describing is in the first half of the story. The second half of the story has Doug confronting (and even overpowering) the demands of the Critic, as he was only going to do it on his own terms.

Critic outright said that he was a twisted version of what Doug told him in To Boldly Flee, that he was so life-like that he was in control. And what overpowering? Critic wouldn't go away until Doug said he wanted him back, and at no point did Doug look happy about it, even after giving in.

Yes, it is complicated because he is arguing with a character he created and portrays but "He doesn't look happy about it" doesn't change or invalidate a "World of Cardboard" Speech, in fact several of them are hard choices they don't particularly like. The only hesitance he shows is that he knows he has to cancel Demo Reel to make it happen, but regardless not all WOCS make the person happy. You're claiming that Doug was forced by an outside influence into doing something he doesn't want to do, but if the Critic is a reflection of his inner psyche then he isn't doing anything he doesn't want to do. That's the point of the whole video.

They weren't claiming that. They (I think) were making the point that the tone was more psychological horror than inspiring realization, with Donnie terrified, Critic terrifying and Doug having a breakdown. And again, no inner psyche thing, Critic had come to life and was taking great joy in it.

Where are you getting that? Word of God? Cause that seems more like an Alternate Character Interpretation that Doug Walker (real or fictionalized) considers the Nostalgia Critic to be a noose around his neck and that he hates himself for playing the character and his fans for forcing him to return to it.

I'll explain it in a way that the argument has no bearing against it. A "World of Cardboard" Speech requires three things (This is all straight from the description): personal conflict, epiphany of some kind and a resolution of the conflict based on the epiphany ie the speech itself.

• Personal Conflict: Critic is wondering why he is at unease working on Demo Reel and is pre-occupied with why he stopped being the Nostalgia Critic.
• Epiphany: He discovers he wasn't ready to quit, just burned out. Watching Timothy Green he realizes he has the energy to be the Critic again.
• Conflict Resolution: He revives the Critic under new rules, cancelling Demo Reel because his heart wasn't really in it.

Nothing said so far contradicts that, and any argument that it doesn't fit a "World of Cardboard" Speech has to prove that each thing I just listed isn't true (ie realizing he can be the critic again isn't a dictionary definition of an epiphany... somehow). The trope isn't subjective, it isn't based on how you interpret what happens to the character or whether the end result is a good or bad thing in your eyes. If you still want to argue then we are going to have to get a third party in here to resolve this.

There's an interview that I can't link to right now because on my phone but Doug said it was an updated version of Jekyll and Hyde where Hyde won. And nobody has said anything about it meaning that Critic was a noose around Doug's neck, we're saying that it wasn't acted like this empowering realization that your stages imply, just look at the scene with the mirror, that's horror movie right there. Plus "heart wasn't in Demo Reel"? He was squeeing about and promising new seasons at every con.

Comparing it to a Jekyll and Hyde argument only makes it a stronger example of the trope, it thrives off internal conflict like that. I'm just using the basic definition of the damn trope, I'm not arguing semantics on the details like whether Doug looks happy or whether it is "empowering". Doug just has fun with the presentation by using horror movie vibes to get inside his head, which incidentally those vibes end once Doug starts communicating with The Critic (ie, the WOCS).

Somehow I think if we even asked Doug himself he would agree it was a "World of Cardboard" Speech.

No they don't. Critic is still in that threatening Deal with the Devil mode, music acting and everything, plus there's the miserably nasty Demo Reel scene, but I'm getting off-track with my hate of how bitter it all sounded. I'm really just here because I'm depressed, go ahead and do the trope if you have to.

I'm only here because Turina cut my example within three minutes of when I first posted it, both times on two pages. I don't want to make an edit war but I do not get how the Jekyll & Hyde and/or Deal with the Devil presentation invalidates the trope I wanted to put down.

Just for the sake of discussion, Doug was clearly no longer intimidated by the Critic once he confronted him (he acted very calm and rational during that key scene). The Critic acting intimidating throughout is simply the character. I actually am quite impressed with the whole story because there are so many layers to how you can view what happens. I see a "World of Cardboard" Speech while others catch on to the Deal with the Devil overtones, they aren't mutually exclusive (if maybe rare).

Ohh dear I didn't want to get this bad. Let's see, I mostly cut it because of the beginning paragraph. The To Boldly Flee Character Development scene was so sweet on both parts, and Doug's commentary on the DVD was really proud of the character getting his happy ending, so just trying to mesh it with this psychotic abusive partner-like version of the Critic just didn't gel right. Plus Doug had wanted Demo Reel since 2008 and Rachel even said they were writing new seasons after Blue Patches, so that really nasty ending (even if Doug did look like he had to Shoot the Dog right after) didn't make sense with "his relationship to his characters" either. Does that explain my reasoning better?

Well I think that is more meshing with your own personal feelings on Doug bringing the Critic back then being an actual argument against the trope. The very point of "The Review Must Go On" is that Doug is trying to reconcile the feelings of being "burnt out" on The Critic (and giving him such a heartwarming send-off) and lingering desires to continue on (and invalidating the send-off). He decides to play with the format of the story by giving it the horror movie vibes, but no matter how much you argue about it the return of the Critic is portrayed as triumphant and a sort of "coming home" (hence him waking up in the studio and putting on his signature wardrobe).

We can play with the wording if that makes you feel better, but just because the word choice rubs you the wrong way doesn't make the observation invalid. As I mentioned up further, can you argue with the three parts of the trope I listed?

I don't think that's my own personal feelings. Maybe I should just commit Death of the Author sure, but all this has been said. As for the return, if it was meant to be triumphant then why did Critic have the same Psychotic Smirk, why did Donnie lampshade how cruel it was, and why was a song that was originally about Critic hating his job and carrying on being played? Could also ask why Critic begged for death in just his third episode but we're not talking about that.

I haven't argued with that, I'm arguing that in the horror movie setting, whether it was for fun or for bitter, it doesn't work. It was filmed and acted like Doug getting dragged back in.

I brought up before in which that argument says that Doug (real or fictionalized) hates his fans and playing the Critic and I just don't see that from the video. In the video everyone around him was telling him NOT to revive the Critic, with The Nostalgia Chick sending Nella to stop this from happening. The Critic is NOT a separate person from Doug but a character he created, Doug is arguing with himself and made the choice himself. Whether you think it is a happy or sad ending it doesn't matter.

Okay okay. That's not what Critic in the video said but this is going in circles. Please do whatever you like.

Okay.

At wiki size, I think the three-year one is better. The four year anniversary one could be linked to.

(You can't hotlink images not on this server. Enclose the URL in [[ ]] to make it link properly to the image.)

It's just because he doesn't have his own page. You can read about him on the Characters page.

Aye.

I second this.

I second this.

Works Pages Are A Free Launch.

So make it.

I can move everything to the Chick's redirect page now if nobody else is doing it?

Todd In The Shadows has one because he had a fan base before he joined CA, as did Spoony, Linkara and the Cinema Snob.

Possibly what could be done is maybe make separate pages for the different 'divisions'? Have a main page for Channel Awesome and have it link off to Team TGWTG, Inked Reality, Blistered Thumbs, AT 4 W, TSE, Cinema Snob, Marz Gurl Productions and That Guy With The Glasses himself?

We could also change the C Mo A and C Mo F pages so that they read 'Channel Awesome C Mo F', so we wouldn't have to divide those up into separate sections - just put links to the same page on each CA division page.

That sounds like a good idea. Any one up to the task?

Uh, actually I made the TITS page because I like his work and I think that we need to stop the exponential expansion of this page, stop the flow!!!

I think that all new stars should get their own page and we should try to untangle some of the other shows.

I helped to untangle Doug. The Nostalgia Critic at the very least.

Thank you for that. I think it's important that we emphasize that The Nostalgia Critic has his own page, and by emphasize, I mean keep it's font enlarged.

I disagree since they don't remove negative comments. The users (not even the contributors, I believe) are the ones who thumb down the comments.

As for Aussie, it was legal issues.

No, several comments have been removed. And what possible legal reason could there be for removing the Aussie?

Can you list examples?

I dunno. I don't run the site.

• EDIT* ALSO! Why the hell is everyone always so worked up over Aussie being removed from the site and never talked about? As far as I remember, his videos RARELY came out and, according to some commentaries and contributor comments, he was kind of a jerk. Is it because of the "controversy" of someone being fired? If so, what's the big deal? People get fired all the time. Just because it's a website run by nerds and geeks doesn't make it any different from an actual business.

And, after I thought about it, yeah! Why would they want to talk about someone who has been fired from their site? It'd be in extremely poor-taste to talk about that with good humor. Besides, when would they want to bring Aussie up in conversation? "Hey, remember that Aussie guy on the site?" "Yeah, sucks to be him!"

Very nice.

Watch any of The Distressed Watcher's videos the moment they come out, and keep up to date on the comments boards, the amount of comments that are removed is staggering. Same goes for Masako X, and Film Brain.

Yeah, the Aussie's videos were terrible, but lots of videos on TGWTG are terrible, and he was the only one who had his removed completely, and his name has been erased. We want to know why.

I see LOADS of hate comments for those three, but I never saw them removed.

1) I never said Aussie's videos were terrible. 2) If I recall correctly (but don't quote me on this), the update stating Aussie being removed involved "creative differences" and (when push came to shove) the admin said that Aussie was a Jerkass and they couldn't tolerate him anymore. That, and something about whining a lot and lent laptop to cease said whining. So Yeah. There's your explanation. Get over it.

Legal reasons as in legal issues from keeping Aussie's own videos (not Transmission Awesome or crossovers etc.) on a site he was fired from. So far as I can tell, the contributors own the rights to the videos, not Channel Awesome. Also, I kinda liked his review of Crocodile Dundee.

Legal reasons are a good chunk of the reason that Aussie is not referred to. That, and leaving wiki pages is just asking for trouble from whoever it was he pissed off.

The official reason was 'ill advised choices' on the part of Aussie, which, yeah, probably meant Aussie being more than slightly unpleasant to people.

Also, if this were Orwellian, he would be banned even from mention on the forums. As there is an epic forum thread going on about where Aussie went to and why (even over a year after the fact), it's safe to say that mention of him comes down to legal reasons.

Besides, how nasty would that be, to kick a guy off a site and leave his videos behind? Might as well say 'All these people who were your friends only cared about your videos and not you'. It would take an epic amount of hatred and spite to do that.

I believe he meant "the series". He was admitting he was complaining about a movie that was targeted at fans of a TV show he did not watch.

Mac Guffins are inconsequential to the plot. The Death Star plans revealed the station's primary weakness.

Yeah, that works. Thanks.

If I recall correctly, Spoony said his "He Panned It, Now He Sucks!" comments should never be taken seriously. He's just being goofy. So yeah, you're right.

It's already listed under the Tropes Are Not Bad section of this page. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

OK, my bad. I didn't saw that list. I replaced it with a formated one.

If you want to, you do not need our permission to do so.

Woman, do you really think I'm going to say no? Go ahead!

I support this motion wholeheartedly.

I concur.

I'm for it.

Support!

Done. Will add some recs of my own tomorrow.

It doesn't mean force as in making people repeat the meme, it's forced as in a forced joke. Every so often he uses a joke repeatedly and encourages viewers to do the same. Which would appear to fit the trope definition.

So essentially all forced memes are running jokes?

That box on the right hand side of the Pokémon page (among others, that's just the first that came to mind). Maybe we could do that.

I second the idea!

Done, whenever.

Hmm, maybe (and possibly the other contributors too), but only if it's its own index. Not on the TGWTG mainspace though.

I'm also wondering if stuff like Rifftrax and Moviebob (which have long lists of films reviewed) should be spun off into its own index.

Any opposed to KJMackley's idea? And anyone know why my IP is constantly changing?

(redundant)

I may have a shot at it tomorrow, if no-one objects.

In fact, some of these films may have only had pages because of the Nostalgia Critic. Look at the first edit for Surburban Commando:

10/Feb/10 at 12:52 AM by Artic 24.18.205.237
Changed lines 1 from:
Click the edit button to start this new page.
to:
Click the edit button to start this new page.
I would, except that I was FROZEN today!

Done. Sort of. Having trouble indexing.

Especially since just about everyone has made jokes about that.

Considering who it was that made that complaint in the first place ("146.57.84.39"), it's obvious that he's looking for any excuse to bitch about Doug.

Hmm, secret crush that comes out in an internet form of hair-pulling? I think so!

146.57.84.39 X Nostalgia Critic. Anybody willing to write that?

Done. And now my brain has cracked from insanity.

And now it's been deleted. I think I'm gonna cry. D:

It's been reposted here!

Doug never mocked Mako though. Just the massive Fan Dumb that followed his unintentional insult. He made a poor joke, he apologized but certain fans couldn't let it go. THAT was who he was mocking.

The fact that he probably didn't even know that he had throat cancer makes even more unintentional. The fact that it's from "146.57.84.39" makes it more likely that he's either trolling, has some personal grudge against him, or probably a fan of one of his rivals. Most likely he's a part of the aforementioned Fan Dumb he mocked. In short, I seriously wouldn't take anything that guy says to heart.

Should I remove this or not?

**Several times in his review of Judge Dredd, the Critic jokes about SylvesterStallone not being able to move half of his face. The reason he can't move half of his face is ''because of a birth defect.'' NOT. FUNNY.

I know this unknown troper will put it back.

Don't let that stop you, that's letting the terrorists trolls win. When he puts it back, take it out again. Repeat the process until he gives up. Its the only way.

Especially since he doesn't use it as often as "OF COURSE!" or BLAM.

The Flubber review is out on the site now.

And why can't we add them? They're out. If someone wants to just put them in spoiler tags it's fine but not adding them period is just stupid.

So, we shouldn't add them just because they're not on the site? Even though he's made them available on Blip for all to see? That seems...arbitrary, at best.

To clarify: I would consider videos officially posted to Blip to be "released." We are, after all, talking about online videos provided free of charge.

Why don't you ask at Ask The Tropers? I tried.