Discussion VideoGame / Tyranny

Simulpost. Sure, I agree with all those things. The post was a starting point, not a definitive list. The whole point of a wiki is to edit and crowdsource. Any of those questions could easily be edits, and any of the examples could be expanded to point out how Square Peg Round Trope applies— the game is meant to subvert genre tropes. I would expect nothing less from Obsidian.

Previously posted in a different thread:

"Spoilers ahoy.

re: Five Bad Band, this trope's always subject to a lot of discussion, because I think that's fun to have— frankly a little friendly edit warring isn't a bad thing, to my mind, but we can do it here.

• Five Bad Band:
  • Big Bad: Overlord Kyros
  • The Dragon: Tunon the Adjudicator, Archon of Justice
  • The Evil Genius: The Voices of Nerat, Archon of Secrets
  • The Brute: Graven Ashe, Archon of War
  • The Dark Chick: Sirin, Archon of Song
  • Sixth Ranger: Bleden Mark, Archon of Shadows
  • Sixth Ranger Traitor: The Fatebinder, Archon of Edicts

This is my personal list. I'm aware of the awkwardness, but that's what I like about it— these things shouldn't slot perfectly unless the devs are literally using this site as a checklist. For example, Graven Ashe is a little intelligent for the Brute, but has the straightforward, uncompromising nature that fits the spirit of the the role, I'd say. Kyros is certainly the Greater Scope villain, but she doesn't actually appear in the game, for all intents and purposes leaving Tunon to step up, with Bleden Mark becoming his Dragon— but then that's subverted by the trial being winnable, allowing you to Talk The Monster To Death and have Tunon swear his fealty to you. You basically get to choose which of the three major archons is the final boss, which makes this whole trope a little nebulous— who is really the Big Bad if you're allied with the other members? But that's worth mentioning in its own right, I'd say. It just needs to be put into words.

Basically, this list is only really accurate regarding the way things stand when you first arrive in the Tiers. Depending on your choices, it can get exploded pretty quickly, and no later than the civil war.

Agree, disagree?"

I don't think it's subverting tropes. Some are straight up non example. That's not what subversions are.

"Bleden Mark is the Sixth Ranger, except he fits none of the traits" isn't a subversion, it's an incorrect example.

"Ashe is the Brute, except he's not stronger or dumber than the rest", well, that just makes him not an example. It'd be a subversion if the game made it seem like Ashe WAS a brute, but revealed it was all a facade, but it doesn't. At no point are we really presented that Ashe is The Brute.

Similarly, your assertion of "these are how things are at the start of the game", well, the player isn't a traitor when the game starts...

I'm fine with making adjustments. This was just off the top of my head, as a starting point. What would your list be?

Bleden Mark could be a second Dragon— him and Tunon aren't quite co-Dragons, but Mark does seem to have some degree of autonomy. Cairn certain fits as the Brute from what we know of him, and Nerat and Ashe each have aspects of both Brute and Evil Genius. That's something that could be called out on the page.

I still think Dark Chick is a pretty solid fit for Sirin, regardless of her actual loyalty or lack thereof toward Kyros.

Sirin I can see as downplayed example of Dark Chick.

My main sticking point is that Bleden Mark doesn't fit The Five Bad Band. He's a Professional Killer, but he's not a Dragon since he's explicitly under the command of Tunon.

If anything I'd list how the game Averts the traditional Five Bad Band. There's a Big Bad, there's a The Dragon, maybe a Dark Chick, but the rest are far more complex characters and don't really fit the roles the Trope calls for. And I guess averting Five Bad Band in a game about villains is an achievement.

BTW, there's a far more appropriate trope:

Standard Evil Empire Hierarchy

• The Emperor: Kyros
• The General: Graven Ashe
• The Right Hand: Tunon
• The Oddball: The Voices Of Nerat
• The Security Officer: Bleden Mark

Ah, I forgot about that one. Let's just use that, then, since it's debatable who in the main cast, if anyone, would be the heroes in this story.

Doesn't listing the tropes like that break the Example Indentation rules?

It's how it's listed on the page's own examples.

I was more referring to the Five Bad Band + subtropes example in the original post.

In regard to the page's examples, I suppose not all the trope pages have been brought up to code with TV Tropes' editing rules.

Open a TRS about it.

Five-Man Band follows the same formatting.

Just because they're listed like that on the Five Bad Band and Five-Man Band trope pages doesn't mean they get listed like that on work pages. The Example Indentation in Trope Lists page is quite clear about that, and even uses Five-Man Band as an example:

Plus, I don't know how to open TRS's.

See other thread

Ditto.

Just for the sake of discussion, I'm thinking that the Samus Is A Girl moment was meant to be low-key and happen during the campaign, we won't have a big revelation in the game.

But I agree that just in case, we could try and keep entries pertaining to Kyros gender-neutral.

Ah. Looking into it, it's mentioned in the first video dev diary. But again, I get the sense enough other pre-release media dances around referring to her with pronouns to suspect it's Trailers Always Spoil... and we can always modify it on November 10th if I'm being paranoid.