Discussion VideoGame / TheLegendOfZeldaBreathOfTheWild

? I don't recall them ever being referred in game as a phantom unless it's from a different localization?

The German localization calls them Phantom Ganons.

Then since we're dealing with the English localization it should be changed back to "Blight", if it hasn't been already.

Changed back, unless someone has more to say on this.

I am the one who changed it, and the quote from the quest log specifically says: "Phantom Ganons of the four Divine Beasts." The compendium also says "phantoms of Ganon", meaning that their official name should very well be Phantom Ganons.

The Blight Ganons are called such because "blight" is in their names, while "phantom" appears to be relegated to only descriptions, seemingly as epithets. Also, "Phantom Ganon" has in other games referred to a far more ghost- or apparition-like Ganon, as opposed to the magitek-evilgoop hybrids of this game. So, while both names may be fitting and valid, the one based on what is seen more often (their individual names) should be used.

That's from the DLC, in which you don't fight the monsters, but rather powered-up memories of them - and the other quest to refer to them anything like that,"Free the Divine Beasts", refers to them as "Ganon phantoms" with the lower case, which indicates that phantom is a descriptor rather than a name.

This is the direct quote from the quest log:

"In a realm of memory, you defeated the powerful Phantom Ganons of the four Divine Beasts. You have also completed the four trials inscribed on the stone monument."

They're referring to where the battles take place, not that they were Phantoms because they were memories.

If the Blight Ganons were being called phantoms at least a few times outside of this quest log, it should be rather clear that the intention was for them to be Phantom Ganons.

Once or twice at most, without a capital "Phantom" - just lower case. And the Compendium says "phantom of Ganon"

And, Free the Divine Beasts, which is main quest even without DLC, uses lower case, too. While certainly phantoms, that doesn't mean that's their title.

It certainly wasn't clear if they were meant to be "Phantom Ganons" before the DLC, but given the evidence that they were called phantoms before then, that should be clear enough.

Yes, it's a very obscure detail that most will miss, but the group of bosses is never called "Blight Ganons" anywhere except for their individual names. As a group, they are called phantoms both individually and collectively, and the DLC finally gives them the group name of "Phantom Ganons."

It's not much, but "Phantom Ganons" is the only official name we have.

Before the DLC, they actually went out of their way to not call them "Phantom Ganons". And the DLC refers to the

Compendium said "phantom of Ganon" and with the non-DLC main quest said "Ganon phantom" (lower case), it means that there is at least one error in the entries - and a DLC mis-capitalization seems more likely than the compendium entries AND the main-game quest all having been wrong, having gone out of their way to avoid saying something that turns out true.

Assuming that they're the same things, that is. However, the Monk says "This illusory realm was created from ... your memories." and "The enemy you shall face is a product of the fear that dwells within." - the creatures faced in the DLC are not the originals, they are not the actual fireblight/thunderblight/waterblight/windblight, but rather an illusory echo based on link's memories.

tl;dr: I posit that the base game specified that, while they're certainly phantoms of Ganon, they're not Phantom Ganons. Further, that the DLC contradicting this means either a very minor typo or that the DLC enemies are distinct due to being illusory echos / sorta-manifested fears.

Again, the DLC quest log refers to the location where the Blights were fought; it never implies that they are "phantoms" because the refights were actually illusory recreations, especially when they are explicitly called "phantoms" prior to this point.

And I see no reason as to why there would be any error in referring to the Blights as "Phantom Ganons." The Blights are referred to as "Ganon phantoms" and "phantom of Ganon" in two separate locations, and they are never called "Blight" anywhere outside of their individual names.

Prior to the DLC, the Blights had no official name as a group, but it finally gave them a proper name based on the information already presented in the base game. Everything about the name "Phantom Ganon" is consistent with the in-game descriptions as well as the history of the series, where a Phantom Ganon is any magically constructed doppelganger of Ganon meant to serve him.

However, someone did mention that they are also called "blights" everywhere in the English localization. If you can prove that, outside of the Blights' official individual names, that this is the case, I will back off.

Probably due to the editors in question not seeing that note on the trope page, and because most of the examples in the Video Games sub-pages are not in-universe examples.

Gotcha, either way, should it be removed?, or just leave it alone &or re-add the deleted note about the Shield Surf mechanic?

Mythology Gag needs its own page. Continuity Nod... honestly needs to be deleted, as this game is NOT a direct sequel to any others in the franchise, despite all but being confirmed as taking place at the end of one of the timelines.

So, the stuff under Continuity Nod can be moved to Mythology Gag, then? Although the Continuity Nod page doesn't specify that it has to be a direct sequel that makes the references, just another entry in the same continuity.

Ehh it's kind of a grey area, given how Zelda's timeline works and all that.

I think Continuity Nod might be worth keeping for story elements that are based directly on previous plot points rather than just being the kind of thing where the game basically waggles its eyebrows at you while going "Eh? Eh?". The first, third, and fourth items in the list are a good example of what to keep; the second and sixth are more of a Mythology Gag. I think the easiest way to look at it is anything outside of the pre-split or Child timelines, like references to the original game, can't be Continuity Nods because they aren't part of the same continuity. Anything that is explicitly referenced from those two timelines is more of a Continuity Nod because they are explicitly attempting to tie things together more firmly.

Late notice here but I went ahead and added the Mythology Gag page since it was already upwards of 30 entries (if I counted correctly).

The Old Man's description of Ganon is more of an Informed Attribute given that:

A) Ganon's unimaginable plan is less of a plan and more of adapting to the new situation, as the original Divine Beasts and Guardians plan 10,000 years ago actually defeated him. If they were brand new, that's another story.

B) Calamity Ganon apparently wants to destroy the world, not take over Hyrule or steal the Triforce. Only one incarnation of Ganon has ever expressed destroying everything, and that is Ganon from Oracles games, who is described as a beast with no intelligence.

C) Ganon never speaks in the game, even when everyone else can talk, including a demon statue. Therefore, no one can be certain if Calamity Ganon is actually The Chessmaster or just a self-preservating animal. Ganon has always talked before, even as a beast. It would have been useful for Ganon to use words to break Link, but he doesn't.

D) The only reason why Ganon hasn't completely destroyed Hyrule in past 100 years is because of Zelda holding him back with her powers. There was no grand scheme of patience with this Ganon.

I don't recall him talking in his Beast form in Twilight Princess, though that's beside the point.

I was referring to Pig Ganon from the classical Zelda games (and Four Swords Adventures). And the games that featured silent Ganon (not counting the first Zelda game for technical reasons) always had a Ganondorf to do the talking.

I'm slightly frustrated because I accidentally clicked close on my last reply but let me respond to each point.

A. But why would a mindless beast want to take control of those guardians ? Not just destroy them? Also notice the guardians aren't trying to attack anyone through out the whole "Current day" game BUT LINK. Meaning they have a specific function: Hunt link . Speaking of specific functions, the four blight bosses, as it states in the main article all four were clearly made to specifically outclass their divine beast's champion. All the champions fell in one to one combat, like warriors...that doesn't sound like the work of a mindless beast but a warrior. Edit : Also don't you think it's weird that a wild beast would wait until nearly everyone was ready to attack him (as the old man says they were ready to attack him) then act.

B. Only at the very end, Zelda says he abandons an idea he was attempting before that to try and just destory the words. Why would a mindless beast want to do the plan that was tossed aside?

C. He may have realized it was futile. If you notice in every game that take place after Ocarnia except for Wind waker, he's not as verbose. What could he have said to a link that just "came back from the dead" and came to kill him? Remember calamity ganon isn't even considered a former human, but an evil construct who took the form of a human(technically true due to demise) . His own people have denied him as a Gerudo. He has nothing but his magic now, he doesn't even have a human body anymore. So tell me what would you think Ganon could even say?

D. Except we see something that is clearly him trying to regain his human form. And as I pointed out in B, He was said to have abandoned this plan after that thing was destroyed. People mistook that for a rotting corpse when he in reality was forming a new one.

A) If a beast was defeated by those Guardians, would it not make sense for that beast to take care of that first? It has 10,000 years of figuring that out. And who isn't to say that Guardians are shooting down any nearby travelers? It's also been implied that the Guardians have also attacked several villages and forts surrounding the castle. As for the Blight Ganons, it is unknown exactly how they came to being. They could have been fully formed at the beginning with a preplanned destination, or they merely adapted the Divine Beast programing to gain an advantage over the Champions? Mindless is perhaps too strong a word. When people say mindless, they mean that Ganon is primal bundle of rage and insanity. A primal beast can think, but not to extent of an evil mastermind.

B) Calamity Ganon's goal throughout the game has always been emphasized as destroying the rest of Hyrule. There was nothing indicating Ganon's agenda beyond that. Zelda states if she loses control of containing Ganon, he will proceed to destroy the world. Getting a physical body does not equate to Ganon's previous schemes.

C) Ganon from A Link to the Past spoke and he was intelligent as ever. Ganon from the Oracle games spoke, even though his words are mindless desire of killing everything. Ganon from the original game did not speak, but it was quite clearly it was due to technical limitation as Ganon in expanded material does talk and he was intelligent enough to imprison Zelda rather than kill her. In fact, Ganon has always been talking in every game since A Ltt P, even as a talking head spirit. And in Breath of Wild, everyone is talking except Link. You think that Ganon would at least try to do a Hannibal Lecture considering that by this point, he doesn't even care about his people. Like saying that Link is the weak link of the heroes that have faced Ganon before? Or even go to a Villainous Breakdown of seeing Link all the time and saying it in front of his face?

D) All I saw was Calamity Ganon trying to form a body. Not a human body, but a body. What kind of human has a spider abdomen and multiple mishmash of cybernetics? And again, getting a physical body is not something beyond what a primal beast would think of.

Again, I think the issue is the use of mindless. Primal or animalistic are better words to describe Ganon's mental state. Just because he has the capacity to think, does not mean he is not an Almighty Idiot.

A. Exactly, so why TAKE THEM OVER? Your next two sentences go into speculation, I will point out,, if they were such a problem in the present, why didn't impa or anyone mention the guardians as such? Why is there no situation where we find an Npc hiding from or attempting to figure out a way safely around guardians? And I'd rather take the Kings word on Ganon than yours as it's closer to Word of God than yours.

B. Except for Zelda outright staying he was attempting reincarnation .... Why would someone try to reincarnate if they're just going to try and destory the rest of Hyrule?

C. Okay this is a lot of you speculating, I'll start off by saying: Where and how is it made clear he no longer cares for his people? If you notice Naboris is barely considered a nuance by them, the desert as long as you don't roam out far is rather mild for a desert. In fact let's go over the fact that if he was so malicious, why are all the divine beast basically just walking around not actively wiping out the civilizations that are right next to them? For a guy who you say wants to destroy Hyrule, he doesn't take the opportunity to have them attack for 100 years? Also both of your examples rely on him being insane and enraged and not maybe he just is like "Another day at the office of Ganon" or "O.O.C. Is Serious Business"

D. COOL what about Zelda saying he was going for reincarnation? She specifically says when he goes dark beast he's given up on that.

And just because he doesn't speak doesn't mean he's a primal and animalistic thinker. In fact you'd have to literally ignore signs of intelligence in order to make the point he's an animalistic/primal thinker from wait I've seen so far.

A) Why not? Ganon consumes everything he touches, like a computer virus. And what makes you think the Guardians are hunting Link? If that was the case, you would expect all the Guardians to break into whatever town Link is currently in. They're more likely guarding certain pathways, likely to protect Ganon from anyone that dares to enter in, not just Link. The reason they seem to hunt Link is because Link is the only one that dares go into their territory.

B) You honestly think Ganon has some perfectly laid out plan of world peace or conquest? Oh he's reincarnating, but many including the King have pointed out that if he regenerates, nothing will stop him from consuming the rest of the land.

C) Except the Divine Beasts are trying to destroy the remaining settlements. Vah Medoh was causing windstorms and Rito warriors Teba were sent out to stop it before it can destroy their village. Vah Ruta was causing massive rainstorms that threaten to flood the entire world if not stopped. Vah Rudania is causing volcanic eruptions that sabotaged the Goron's mining facilities. I have to admit, Vah Naboris is a bit harder since I have yet to find any particular direct threat it poses towards the Gerudo. But considering that the other Divine Beasts were willing to destroy the other regions, I don't think it means Ganon cares in the long run. Also, you forget again that Zelda is holding him back.

As for the speaking examples, consider this. Ganon does not speak, meaning we have no insight into his mind. Ganon's smoke form acts as if it was a caged animal trying to break free. And various people have noted that if he breaks free, the rest of the world will be destroyed. Why do you think people came to the conclusion that Ganon is now a raging, mindless beast akin to the Oracle games? Especially since Nintendo could have made Ganon speak and play up his chess master skills, but choose not to for this incarnation.

D. See B above. There was no grand ambition of world conquest mentioned by anyone in regards to Calamity Ganon. Only the end of the world.

Being a primal and animalistic thinker is a sign of intelligence, since he is aware of the events around him. But does not disqualify him from being considered as an Almighty Idiot.

A. I am thinking differently as unlike corruption, the energy he gave off each purposefully hit each guardian and divine beast. They only activate in the presence of Link or possibly the Sheikah Slate. There is a whole small cut scene where we see them specifically in the presence of Link (or the sheikah slate) at the beginning of the plateau when you head to the bomb Rune.

B. Honestly Conquest, yes.... He's had over 10,000 years to think things over. In less than 30 he was originally able to get under the king of Hyrule's good graces and take over in Ocarnia.... So why not spend 10,000 making sure that everyone who can stand in his way is eliminated all in one strike. Consuming doesn't mean destroy, it could mean simply bring under his control. Of course he would kill everyone who stood in his way or attempted to stand against his rule. But then he is the big bad.

C. Uh if you notice those aren't active means of destruction. Medoh as you said is a threat, that could, But hasn't, Rutahl same thing and Rudania sounds like more an accident and even then unless the mining is for edible rocks. It'd not really disrupt Goron culture much besides inability to mine. Also if you go back to the memory of Zelda figuring out she failed 100 years ago. there was a point where Ganon clearly has full control of the guardians and beast has started to kill people... But doesn't destroy anything besides Hyrule castle, the champions and castle town.

Because we see that Zelda is actively trying to hold him... We have no idea what her restraints on him are doing or what effect they have. He could be in a And I Must Scream prison where he can only act through the trashing beast or worse he's lost control or that part of himself. We are given such surface information on every part of Ganon in this game. As for why they chose, remember they even said this game is more about environmental story telling. To me there's is honestly enough to suggest Ganon is more the chessmaster then most give him credit for regarding this game, especially regarding 100 years ago.

D. Because no on knows him, no one tries to know him besides seeing him as an enemy.

And I'm one to hold reservations especially until word of God regarding if this as all a scheme or just a beast trashing around.

I think saying Ganon is completely mindless at this point is doing a disservice to the character. However, I WILL say that the only thing he thinks of anymore is destruction. He used the Guardians because he realized that they could be used to destroy the people trying to seal him away, and because simply destroying the guardians or even the Divine Beasts would give him less of an advantage over the Champions. It was his combining the Guardian technology with his own essence that created the Blight Ganons, which is what ultimately killed the Champions. Link managed to attack the castle before Ganon could call them to regroup and actually stood a chance but failed. Given that the player is capable of beating the game (with extreme luck and effort) with only tattered clothes, bad weapons, and three heart containers, the story makes it look like Link only failed due to a bad stroke of luck. As for Ganon, he's obviously more than a simple beast but also not nearly as cunning as he once was.

Anything from the main story concerning flashbacks or the ending. Besides that, I think it's left to the judgement of the editor.

Maybe it was accidentally deleted? If no reason was given for removing it, you can just re-add it and mention that.

It's there now, but it's spoiler tagged. Why's that?, the method for getting it doesn't seem very spoilery if you ask me.

Any details that are described in how to get the ending are themselves spoilers, even if the method is blatantly obvious to the players. The spoiler tag is fine.

Someone got their hands on a copy early and leaked the game, including major plot spoilers, before it was released. This page will likely be unlocked tomorrow when the game is officially released.

The same thing happens often to the Pokemon games, especially Pokemon Sun And Moon. It's happened to other highly anticipated works as well.

The game's out officially. Can we get an unlock on these pages?

I agree. I'd like to organize the YMMV page.