You're just criticizing me again. As you always do.
Denial is a weakness. A WEAKNESS.
Then how could I say this more constructively? If you could explain why you wrote it that way it would help instead of accusing me to no benefit. This isn't about you or me but whether or not what is written fits what happened in the game. If I am wrong then explain how, is that a unreasonable thing to ask?
Edited by Perentie
I'm only stating what I observe in this game. You always say it's wrong. Even when I say why, you always say it's wrong. (Don't just edit your comment.)
Edited by commentspaee Denial is a weakness. A WEAKNESS.
You have almost never explained yourself to me, and when you did I explained why I thought the reasoning was mistaken (I assume we are speaking of when you claimed it was Martina's idea to torpedo the NDA submarine, you noted she said she prepared the torpedo and I noted it was stated she did this on Yomi's direct orders so it wasn't her call). In turn you gave no further explanation.
So on topic, let me directly ask you, where and how is the choice to keep the secret of Kanai Ward secret portrayed as something Yuma should do "for the sake of his friends at the NDA"?
It seems to me the real Friend-or-Idol Decision was between Yuma's desire to expose the truth and his desire to help people, as his conflict here comes from Makoto telling him one will prevent the other.
Edited by Perentie
leave me alone please just stop i'm a sentient human, not someone to drag into an unending discussion
Edited by commentspaee Denial is a weakness. A WEAKNESS.
If you don't wish to discuss then that's fine, but it means that I won't be able to have your input when it comes to editing these pages.
How can the great global mystery be considered a fabrication? The Number One body double states it is a massive world wide kidnapping, and that did happen, with the mystery being why it was happening and what was becoming of the people.
Makoto also says he is in effect Kanai Ward's Ultimate Secret. Him luring the detectives with rumors of unsolved mysteries doesn’t make it a fabrication, it just means the information was spread to the WDO on purpose rather than incidentally.
I applaud all the effort going into adding tropes, but it seems like some are a case of Square Peg Round Trope. In the interest of not going overboard or seeming rude, I figured it could be good to list some cases and put them up for discussion before doing anything else. For instance:
Aesop Amnesia: Can it apply when the characters genuinely cannot remember what they learned? The trope doesn't speak of literal amnesia.
Broken Aesop: Halara's character model has their face hidden, but their character art clearly shows their feelings. Further, the fake Number One's video afterward makes it pretty clear it is known to everyone in the group now that Yakou was the one who killed Huesca. Desuhiko seems to only take issue with calling Yakou a murderer. There's no indication Vivia and Yuma kept the info about Yakou's wife secret (heck, Yuma had only just found out from Kurumi and had no opportunity to tell the others yet), indeed fake Number One referring to Yakou letting his feelings control him would indicate that this was communicated to him as well. All in all it seems ambiguous.
"Could Have Avoided This!" Plot: Requires an in-universe realization. This might apply to Makoto (though even then there is the issue of dealing with Yomi), but no one says Yakou would have lived if he told the agency about his wife. Yakou conspired to kill Huesca because he wanted revenge, and informing others about this would have interfered with that revenge. Yuma even remarks that he thinks Yakou's death would have happened eventually regardless.
Idiot Ball: Halara had no reason to think the death was not from stab wounds. The only one with an inkling of this was Vivia and that was due to him having information Halara did not. Likewise, it doesn't require out of character stupidity for Desuhiko to think Vivia is acting insane.
These are ones that stick out to me, what do all of you think?
Edited by Perentie Hide / Show Replies
you're trying to hide the game's writing problems these aren't actual defenses
everyone else agrees with all that but you
Denial is a weakness. A WEAKNESS.
Nobody else has said anything about this here, so I don't know what is agreed on. I'd like to discuss these writing problems though, and how my defenses are not actual defenses. Could you explain what you mean?
And I don't care who wrote the entries, just if they fit the trope definition or not. It's not like I'm the only one who has removed tropes on these pages.
Edited by Perentie
Should we go Spoilers Off on the main page? It's pretty hard to talk about most of the tropes in the game without at least some spoilers, and soon enough the entire page will be a wall of white text; plus Spoilers Off is already applied to the character page.
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Spoilers off is a good idea. As a comparison, all of the Danganronpa games are spoiler off so I believe this page should be too.
Is there someone (IE a moderator) we should contact about making this official? Or should we just make a note stating the intention and then remove the spoiler tags? It seems like a good idea, but I don't want to step on any toes if there's an approval process. (Sorry if this is a common question, I don't do much large-scale editing.)
I wholeheartedly disagree with going Spoilers Off for a game that exists for a game that exists for less than a month. I understand that a lot of people rushes through games and typing tags in can be a bother, but I’m sure you can agree at least 30 days is a fair compromise.
Believe me, I know what you mean, and trying to cover what is actually a spoiler is quite a tedious job, but we shouldn't really disable spoilers for a game not even a year old that the entire DR community doesn't even know every detail of yet.
Denial is a weakness. A WEAKNESS.
Some chapter titles reference mystery/japanese novels and should be added under Shout-Out:
Chapter 0: "Massacre on the Amaterasu Express" - referencing "Murder on the Orient Express" by Agatha Christie.
Chapter 3: "No Longer a Detective" - referencing "No Longer Human" by Osamu Dazai. (confirmed by the japanese title of the chapter, 探偵失格 while the book's japanese title is 人間失格）
Chapter 5: "And Then I Was Gone" - referencing "And Then There Were None" by Agatha Christie.
Maybe there are more on the other chapter titles but these are the ones I identified.
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Chapter 1: "The Nail Man Killings" - referencing Renzoku Satsujinki Kaeru-otoko
.
Chapter 2: "A Silent Curtain Call" - combining Chinmoku no Shoujo and Ankoku no Shoujo's titles.
Chapter 4: An Imperfect Insider - referencing Subete ga F ni Naru: The Perfect Insider.
The Friend-or-Idol Decision seems misleading as currently worded. Yuma believed the other members of the NDA were dead at the time, revealing or not revealing the secrets of Kanai Ward would have no effect on them and they would have wanted the secret revealed anyway, so there is no motivation for him to keep the secret for their sake. Makoto's point was the assertion that revealing the truth would not help Kanai Ward's people, but rather ruin what happiness they had and expose them to further danger. Yuma's decision, motivated by Shinigami, is that it was still preferable to them living in ignorance of their true nature and all that had happened.
Edited by Perentie Hide / Show Replies