Discussion VideoGame / FinalFantasyVII

So I want to add mention of more Gundam inspiration to the Shout-Out section. So far this is how I'd phrase it:

• The Wall Market sequence bears several similarities to the Tigerbaum episodes of ZZ Gundam.
• The FMV finale of the game where Meteor is halted by the Lifestream has both similar context and even recreates several shots from the climax to Char's Counterattack.

Can we please have "ebonics" changed to AAVE? The former is a gravely problematic term.

Disclaimer* I do not claim ownership of this theory. CHAPTER 18 Scenario Description - The Turning Point "In the world beyond, Sephiroth shows Cloud a vision of the planet seven seconds before its demise."

Judging by the game's description, it seems that contrary to popular belief, it's not the Compilation that got retconned but the Planet being destroyed. That being said, Sephiroth is known for taunting Cloud with illusions...

Hey, so I have an argument I've been kicking around. I think that Sephiroth parallels the worst qualities of all the main cast members. He is a former SOLDIER who has serious self-identity issues and combats these issues with delusions of grandeur, like Cloud did before he entered the life stream. Tifa lied to Cloud about his delusions because she cared about him and was worried it would break his mental state. Likewise, Sephioroth arguably does what he does out of "love" for his mother. Sephiroth and Barret both believe that The Ends Justify The Means. He believes he is a Cetra, whereas Aerith actually is. He shares Vincent's connection with Hojo. He lashes out at people out of anger and chases an improbable dream like Cid, though Cid cares about the people around him more than going to space. I struggle to come up with any parallels to Cait Sith or Yuffie. I guess he hurts other people to protect "his people". Yuffie claimed she was basically doing this before she trapped the party in a cage. Like Cait Sith, he can be manipulative. I feel like those ones are weaker than the others, though. What do you guys think?

hey i found this video on youtube and i would like to ask here if someone knows if this is true <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VQEAFxjqr-E" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

A whole lot of bad grammar needs fixing. It would be easier if you would unlock this page so I could make these edits myself, but alas...I suppose you would rather make more work for yourself than let others do it for you?

In second paragraph: "A eco-terrorist organisation" should read "An eco-terrorist organization."

Under "Ascend to a Higher Plane of Existence," the whole sentence "Backstory for Advent Children establish his three remnants being formed from pure spiritual energy with a need for any Jenova cells, though the three are incomplete copies of him without them" is a confusing mess.

Under "Black Best Friend," the "specially" in "Barret, specially if you choose him for the tram cut-scene." should be either "specifically" or "especially."

Under "Cognizant Limbs," it says "Emerald Weapons" when it should be singular, not plural.

Under "Damage-Sponge Boss /Marathon Boss," the sentence "Ruby and Emerald WEAPON, who have eight hundred thousand and one million hp , respectively, and you are only able to do 9999 at once, typical strategies for beating them involve using the Game-Breaker summon a couple dozen times" should read, "Ruby and Emerald Weapon have eight-hundred thousand and one million HP respectively, and you are only able to deal 9999 damage at once. Typical strategies for beating them involve using the Game-Breaker summon a couple dozen times." The sentence, "The fight against Emerald WEAPON takes place underwater; you have to either kill it in 20 minutes, or undergo a simple sidequest to allow you to breathe water" utilizes a semicolon and comma incorrectly. It should read, "The fight against Emerald Weapon takes place underwater, and you have to kill it in 20 minutes or undergo a simple sidequest to allow you to breathe underwater." The sentence "Since that isn't very long against something with as many hp as Emerald WEAPON, most people go for the sidequest" should have "HP" capitalized.

Under "Boss Battle," the sentence that says "During the final battle with Sephiroth, you can switch your party members" isn't totally accurate and should read, "During the first segment of the final battle with Sephiroth, you can switch your party members." The segment that reads, "If you bring the hurt and totally wreck Jenova's stuff, you have to split your equipment and materia three ways; having one team defeat Sephiroth's left arm, one team for the right arm, and one team for his core... which will heal the arms back if you take too long. And if you used the infinity plus one summon on it, the final boss gets a boost to its HP. And what's even worse, the numerous parties need to be properly equipped, but once you beat the boss, your main party goes straight on to the Final Boss battle without giving you a chance to swap equipment in-between" is a grammatical nightmare, with sentence fragments and improper punctuation everywhere. It should read, "If you bring the hurt and totally wreck Jenova's stuff, you have to split your party and material three ways, having one team to defeat Sephiroth's left arm, one team for the right arm, and one team for his core...which will heal the arms back if you take too long. If you use the Infinity Plus One summon on it, the final boss gets a boost to its HP. Even worse, the numerous parties need to be properly equipped, but once you beat the boss, your main party goes straight on to the Final Boss battle without giving you a chance to swap equipment in-between." The segment that reads "It's also made worse that if one of your team gets taken down, instant Game Over, even if it's not the team fighting the core (which fights Sephiroth's final form)" should read "It's also made worse that if one of your teams gets taken down, it's instant Game Over, even if it's not the team fighting the core (which fights Sephiroth's final form)."

Under "Broken Aesop," the sentence "The original game had an environmental message about the Lifestream and humans abusing the planet's natural resources to the point there was the chance Holy would see them as a threat and destroy the species" should say "to the point where there was the chance that Holy would," etc.

Under "Can't Drop the Hero," the sentence "Both subverted and played straight; at a couple times in the game, you lose Cloud for a while, to be replaced by Tifa and Cid. Outside of this, however, you truly can't drop the hero" should be split into two sentences, with a period where the semicolon is.

Under "Chekhov's Gunman/Chekhov's Army," the sentence "The connection the events at Nibelheim can be easily missed if the player doesn't stop at Gongaga (or if they do but don't have Aerith in the party) and meet his parents, revealing his actual name" needs fixing. Not sure what it's trying to say, so needs to be rewritten in a way that makes sense.

Under "Chest Monster," in the sentence "Oh, and getting hit by the second hand dumps you into a pit, forces you to fight a pair of Ancient Dragons that surround you, and send you back to near the start of the dungeon (you'll find Cloud's Nail Bat weapon in this pit)," it should say "surrounds you" (since it is worded as the pair that surrounds you) and "send you back" should say "sends you back," since it's getting hit by the second hand that sends you back, not the dragons that send you back.

The "Combat Pragmatist" entry should be removed since it does not happen in this game.

Under "Comically Small Bribe" the spacing is odd on the attempted ellipses before "10 gil" and needs to be fixed. Furthermore, after "You can walk out of town, kill some pansy monsters, and rake in a few hundred," I would like to add "The guard fittingly calls you a cheapass for declining."

Under "Corrupt Corporate Executive," the sentence "The entire senior management of the Shinra company... Cranked Up to Eleven" should remove the space before "Cranked" and the "c" should be lowercase.

Under "Cosmic Keystone," the word "Aptly" should be lowercase.

The "Cry Cute" entry needs removal since Kadaj is not in this game.

Under "Dark and Troubled Past," the weirdly first-person "If that's not dark and troubled, I don't know what is" should be changed to "If that's not dark and troubled, what is?"

Under "Debut Queue," the "(when Cid, the last mandatory member joins)" segment should read either "(when Cid, the last mandatory member, joins)," or "(when the last mandatory member Cid joins)."

The "Also qualifies to Rufus and the Turks in Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children" segment tacked onto the "Defeat Means Friendship" entry should be removed since it's irrelevant to this particular game and should be left to the Advent Children page.

Under the "Very Definitely Final Dungeon" segment of "Dungeon Crawling," the word "disks" should be spelled as "discs."

Under "Eco-Terrorist," "AVALANCHE believe" should read as "AVALANCHE believes," since AVALANCHE is the name of a unit, which is singular.

Under "Eldritch Abomination," the sentence "The whole turning people into monsters and driving them insane and impersonating the native race and turning on them after gaining acceptance is kind of pushing it though" should read, "The whole 'turning people into monsters, driving them insane, impersonating the native race, and turning on them after gaining acceptance' thing is kind of pushing it, though."

Under "Even Bad Men Love Their Mamas," the segment about Kadaj should be removed since this character is not in this game.

Under "Everything Trying to Kill You," the sentence should read, "The Sector 6 slums have the Hell House enemy, which is...a small house...that sprouts arms legs and tries to kill you...and for some reason, also shoots out bombs."

...And this is only the first "A-E" section, let alone the entire rest of the page. I'll go ahead and stop noting everything that needs fixing now, as I'm sure my point has been very clearly made. Please consider unlocking this page so people who care about improving it can do so. Thank you.

The link to Dirge of Cerberus under Big Bad Ensemble needs to be fixed.

This page has been locked for about 4 years now, I think it's probably fair to say that the coast is clear. Unlock?

Please unlock and update the article due to the reveal that Square Enix will be remaking the game for release as a PS 4 timed exclusive. Tetsuya Nomura is the director of the project while Yoshinori Kitase will be returning to pen the script.

Cloud being in Super Smash Bros needs to be added.

Why do we still have tropes and bits that still solely refer to AC and Do C? This page is about the original game, right?

Ah, forgot about that thread. But yeah I'm gonna make the suggestions there.

Deleted this and putting it here. This example needs to be more consistent with the Five-Man Band setup if it's to be readded.

• Five-Man Band
  • The Hero - Cloud
  • The Lancer - Barret
  • The Smart Guy - Red XIII
  • The Big Girl - Tifa
  • The Chick - Aerith
  • The Mole - Cait Sith
  • Sixth Ranger (s) - Yuffie, Vincent
  • The Hero - Cloud and his deconstruction of I Just Want to Be Badass
  • The Lancer - Barret would seem to be this at the beginning. But when Cloud goes down, the team puts Tifa in charge. Cid also has flashes of this.
  • The Big Guy - Barrett is a Class 3, a deconstruction of 1 and 2. Tifa is of the Cute Bruiser variety.
  • The Smart Guy - Cid is the Gadgeteer Genius type, but physically (in appearance and combat) he's one of Cloud's Lancers. Cait Sith looks like the Team Pet and Alien Scrappy type, especially since his Limit Breaks can kill the party, but as The Mole (via Reeve, a Gadgeteer Genius) and Squishy Wizard (ample materia slots and growth, good magic stats) he's an annoying Smart Guy. Vincent, as a former Turk (or, in the original script, a paranormal investigator), is the one who usually knows what's going on, but he's a Sixth Ranger. Red XIII is probably the straightest example.
  • The Chick - Both Tifa and Aerith have aspects of The Chick. But neither can really be pinned down with the label. Tifa's more The Big Guy.
  • Sixth Ranger - Vincent and Yuffie fall into this because they are optional characters, though they would eventually get bigger roles.
  • Team Pet - Cait Sith looks the part, but as The Mole and the Squishy Wizard he's closer to The Smart Guy. He's almost a lancer in being the sneaky guy and performing a Heroic Sacrifice. Red XIII is the Token Non-Human and so you would think he might be The Big Guy, but his stats (and Backstory) are like Cloud's (well-rounded and full of traumatizing experimentation, respectively), so he and Cloud look more like A Boy and His X (especially in the◊ Amano Artwork◊).

The pc release is being ported to ps4. Max lost his $#*+ over that one.

Is there any sort of standard for dealing with the game's best-known spoiler? Sometimes it's hidden, as in Death from Above, and sometimes it's out in the open, as in Killed Off for Real.

If there isn't one, how about coming to a consensus and asking for a page edit to make things consistent?

The article mentions a remake, I have FFVII for Steam on PC (I believe). Could this be considered that remake?

Oddly enough, though the trope "Back from the Dead" says it cannot be done, with the PC versions of FFVII you can have Aerith at the final battle of the game with "Yuffie Warping". It's weird stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMoFk1_qLR4

Switching from harvesting the mystical life force of your planet to oil, listed as a Broken Aesop, does indeed prompt a headdesk. Which particular rock have you been living under the past couple decades?

Modern oil power plants have considerably less environmental impact then wind-powered-money-eaters, not to mention something as crass as Mako reactors. Same with coal. Now look at the kind of lesson taught to the people over the course of FF 7 and tell me how they're going to repeat Victorian England and communist East Europe.

(Ranty tone due to the topic being locked with annoyingly naive content).

Any chance there could be a trope page for Final Fantasy VII Abridged? Or would I be on the wrong page to ask for that?

MacGuffin

Does the Black Materia qualify as a MacGuffin? Yes, it is an object that people are persuing, but the game goes into clear detail on its origins, significance, and purpose. Parts of the story would change significantly if the weapon of mass destruction were swapped to, say, a nuke.

"With a big-ass Colony Drop in the sky barrelling down on them, panicked civilians running for the hills, a veritable Quirky Mini Boss Squad of giant Eldritch Abominations roaming the lands"...

They're not Eldritch Abominations, they're Kaiju at best.

Anyone have any problems with me making Last Order: Final Fantasy VII into its own page?

"Your Limit gauge automatically fills during the battle as well. The developers probably intended to have you defeat him with an Omnislash, but if you select Level 1 Limit Breaks, it takes a few Bravers to do it."

Whoever wrote that has no idea what he's talking about. Cloud gets Omnislash for that final battle regardless of what Limit Level he has assigned prior to it, and a single strike kills Sephiroth anyway.

This page was locked because of a Cloud x Aerith shipper? Really?

Shouldn't "All Love is Unrequited" be updated due to the Ultimania book pretty much saying Tifa and Cloud slept together before going down into the Crater to fight Sephiroth? i think the book also explains that the Cloud/Aerith interaction is more a sense of duty and their connection to Zack than anything else.

A bit of a headache since the page is locked and probably going to stay that way, but perhaps a main page for the entire Compilation can be created, and this page can stay focused on the original game?

Minor detail—can we add a link to the "Boom Headshot" trope? This is what happens to one of the WEAPO Ns when it decides to take a peek down the gun barrel at Junon harbor

Wouldn't it be better to list the tropes by categories (narrative, gameplay, meta etc.) instead of alphabetically, like it's done with the page of, say, The Reconstruction?

One thing bugs me plenty: I suppose it's fair to say that Cloud is a poster boy for Onehanded Zweihander stuff, but in fact, I don't recall ever seeing him thrust his BFS with one hand. Yeah, he spins and unsheathes it with one hand alright, but in combat he always holds it in two hands, iirc. The point is, shouldn't we at least remark that somehow?

OK, get your flamethrowers out. Is it Aeris or Aerith?

Is there a reason to have two Headscratchers links at the top of the page?

Should we start grooming this article for trope entries related to specific installments of the Compilation (as opposed to the original game), nearly all of which have their own articles on this wiki, or keep them here?

What's all this about Lovecraft?

I looked it up, couldn't find any of that in Strange Case.

I've never actually read the story, but if someone could prove that the Lovecraft shout-out exists, please do so.

mistakes were made. nm this post

On the Fantastic Aesop, it's not only that we learn from the game if we find Earth's energy, WE'RE ALREADY DOING IT, at least in the petroleum and coal area. It's more like a Green Aesop.

It's obvious that one of the topics of the game is about Earth's resources. Lifestream being the representation of said resources, particularly coal in my opinion, and Mako energy being gasoline. Basically one of the many topics the game shouts about, is that the humans are literally consuming Earth's lifeforce, and what can result of playing God .

I'm not a God freak or anything, but we all know that experiments can go seriously wrong (i.e Sephiroth). I wouldn't be surprised if, in fact, Mad Scientists are creating SOLDIER, or even worse, Sephiroth, just because it's him... Better for them (and us) creating Cloud too (in resume FFVII happening somewhere around the world).

The Five Man Band is a real mess. Cid's obligatory for FF games, Yuffie and Vincent are optional, Cait Sith's evil. So, should I delete it to leave the core five?

We've gone quite a while without shippers attacking the page!

Why do people keep deleting Reno's note about being a Karma Houdini and/or Draco in Leather Pants? It doesn't matter how you try to justify it, he was given an order to murder hundreds of people and he did it without any repercussions. That's a clear indication of a Karma Houdini, so why does it keep being removed? Statistically speaking, he probably kills more people than Sephiroth.

A note for Fridge Logic: There is only one real way to get into the Gold Saucer for the rest of the world who is not you. The Gold Saucer is a popular place where money flows like water. Why is the town you have to go through to get to the tram dirt poor? That sort of run-off trade is why people put cities near interstate highways. It should be at least less poor than it is.

Anyone know what part of Dirge of Cerberus the phone call between Vincent and Cloud is? The one where Cloud sounded upbeat. I would so love to hear that.

Sudden flurry of edits? How did I KNOW it was shippers again? I must be psychic!

Why was my Crapsack World entry removed here?