Whatever the whichever memoir is claiming, it's a well-known phenomena that Gandhi's AI in Civ 1 becomes super-aggressive after implementing Democracy. It has nothing to do with nukes and the nuclear memes (that's a separate thing), but India simply starting to go more militaristic than anyone else. They don't need nukes for that and as pointed by one of the edits recently, the "backed by nuclear weapons" line is unrelated with aggressivness.
Thus
- Gandhi is getting aggressive under democracy, rather than being even more peaceful
- "Backed by nukes" line is unrelated to that behaviour
- The memetic status of Gandhi is based on his sudden aggressivness, the nukes are just additional flavour
I get it, Civ 1 is an old, clunky and pretty boring game to play when compared with just about anything else in the series, but I still suggest installing it and playing few times to observe what India starts doing once they become a democracy.
I guess the way how the Ascended Glitch is worded could be changed to properly describe what's going on, but that's about editing, not wrong trope
Edited by Betoniarz
Not sure what's more funny here. Insisting that there is no bug, confusing the bug with "backed by nukes" or the fact people who do it, keep linking one and the same article each and every time.
But probably the fact I'm getting a reply two months after is the ultimate winner of it.
I'll top that by replying three years later.
I can understand if you would rather not bother with Kotaku, given their reputation. Google Books has Sid Meier's autobiography, though, and the page about the bug being an urban legend is available for preview.
https://books.google.com/books?id=szTTDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT212#v=onepage&q&f=false
If you ask me, Sid's explanation as to why the overflow bug wasn't possible given the circumstances seems plausible. He also directly names the Troper he says is responsible for creating the urban legend: Tunafish.
Grand Nagus
Should we add the governors as Civ VI characters in a separate folder or something? They seem to have tropes of their own...
Should this page be split along the different iterations of the serie to better the ease of reading and editing?
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Yes, I think so. I'm all for separating IV, V, and VI, personally, given the differences between those three.
Oh, we can go on Do you understand? I t ' s a l l i n y o u r h e a d
Civilization II is the only installment of this franchise I ever played. I played it on the Computer, I've always had Windows. Recently I wanted to play it again for the first time in years but I couldn't install it from the Disc I have on my Labtop.
As a Trope thought experiment. If the Player in Civilization II wants to see himself as the Emperor of an Evil Empire, how well can the advisors fit as a Standard Evil Empire Hierarchy? Clearly the Elvis impersonator is the Oddball.
Edited by MithrandirOlorin
Did anyone ever notice how Civ V's unique ability mechanic feels a lot like Rhye's and Fall of Civilization mod for Civ IV? Also the flipping of cities due to ideology feels not unlike the stability system?
Pittsburghmuggle
Voicing disapproval with removing the anachronisms (listed reason was "kind of nattery". I disagree. I'm not putting back, per Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgement, but I think all that should be left there and am voicing it in case others feel the same. I'm aware it says in the comments "No examples please, we get it", but would like to know who and why this was decided.
This is what was removed:
- One of the oddest examples of this is the Oxford University National Wonder in Civ IV. The significance of Oxford, and the reason it's one of the world's leading establishments today is that it was one of the first University set up in the world (at least in any format we'd vaguely recognise today). However, in the game, you need to have built at least 6 other Universities to construct it. Also, since it is a National Wonder, every nation can have one. At the same time. This means that there could be as many as 18 Oxford Universities in a single world.
- The tech tree, at least in Civ IV, is however set up to make a few things happen "on time" in a normal game. Christianity is typically created around 30 AD and a Civilization will get the tech to find the new world (on a map type that supports it) around 1500 AD and to colonize it a few turns later. Nothing flat out stops you from progressing to these points earlier if you are devoted or get lucky with a great person though.
- In Civ V, trapping is one of the techs you can develop in ancient times. The graphic for it, however, shows a fox looking through a chain link fence, which wasn't developed until the 1840's.
- In IV, the "check spaceship progress" option lets you see your futuristic spaceport and the progress you've made on your spaceship. You can check this even after starting the game in ancient times - and the spaceport is every bit as futuristic, though there's no spaceship.
Was it actually inspired by the Civilization (and later Advanced Civilization) board game? I thought Sid Meier had stated that Civilization/Advanced Civilization wasn't on his radar when he designed Civ, but he couldn't speak for his co-developer.
Since I'm working on memory there, I haven't removed it, mind.
Speaking of the origins of the game, would it be worth noting that Meier has stated, iirc, that he was inspired by Sim City, to the point that early prototypes of Civ were real time rather than turn based?
I liked the old quote, so complaining disagreeing as requested.
I'm voting for the Henry V quote as well. Admittedly, I'm the person who originally put it up, so I'm a bit biased. Anyway, I think it perfectly encapsulates how the player needs to use their imagination to turn the simulation into something more.
And if I had to choose a second fave, I would use a shortened version of the opening lines from Civ and Civ IV. Maybe the first three lines and the last four?
I'd debate both the You Fail History Forever points - both for factual accuracy, and for relevance to knowing history! First up - modern democracies might not be free from corruption, but they're honest and accountable compared to comparable dictatorships. Second, Fundamentalism was absent from Civ 3, but it returns (in the form of the Theocracy religious civic) in Civ 4.
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All of these You Fail X entries are pointless to add to the page, as we're discussing a game, not a history/economics/civics class. They should be removed entirely, IMO.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
I agree with keeping out any examples that deal solely with game mechanics, but there are actual, factual errors in the Civilopedia entries (for instance, Julius Caesar being described as "the first emperor of Rome" in one installment).
I disagree with Fighteer's point; the game itself is meant as a (heavily simplified) likeness of the growth of human civilizations throughout history. It doesn't matter that it's a game; the fact of the matter is, the developers chose a concept in which history/economics/civics ARE applicable. They obviously aren't intending to create something to the standards of academia, but then how many producers of games/fiction/films/etc. actually do? There is source material (historical example) that the developers don't really have a good excuse to entirely ignore.
"A supporter once called out, 'Governor Stevenson, all thinking people are for you!' And Adlai Stevenson answered, 'That's not enough.
It doesn't matter. The point is to make the games accessible to players. They aren't pretending to be historically accurate. And the trope entries are Natter magnets.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
It's irrelevant whether it's a game or a history class, if tropes are present we report them. I see nothing on the "You fail X forever" pages to indicate that we are not to mention them if it's in a specific medium.
Edited by Frdprfct
Quoting directly from YFHF:
"This trope is for those who try to use history, but their knowledge of history seems to stop some time last week. They think Columbus personally discovered the United States"
You Fail is not for ideological disagreements over the impact of Communism on food production. It's for things like stating that Hitler was an American Indian. Civ is not canonical history. It makes no pretense at being so. When I conquered the Aztecs with my Babylonian Riflemen, I wasn't thinking, "Gee, why didn't my history teacher tell me about this?" When I negotiated for oil with Julius Caesar in 1980 AD, I wasn't thinking, "Gee, how could he possibly have lived this long?"
Now, Hollywood History might be a valid trope. But not "You Fail X Forever".
Edited by Fighteer "It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
You'll find that no one is putting actual games in "You fail X forever", instead they are mentioning mechanics that make no sense when compared to their historical counterparts. This is valid, as not only are the mechanics based on some interpretation of their real-life counterparts, they are also described with, among other things, examples from real life.
Also: Are you saying that a caste system producing more social mobility is somehow not a case of failing X forever?
Actually, in theory it's about the ability of a caste system to support specialists by setting them up with permanent positions.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Lost in Space
Once again, let me point out that we're cataloging tropes, not engaging in witty banter for our own amusement. At least, not as much.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Lost in Space
I know someone's going to be mad at me for excising a bunch of stuff, so let me explain on a few points. Feel free to disagree with me, but in discussion please.
- Dude, Where's My Respect?: Contradicted by additional edits; you do get improved Relationship Values by donating particularly valuable techs, just not as much as if you were asked for them.
- Global Warming: Just too much natter. The necessary points were already made in the main example.
- Money for Nothing: Contradicted by the sub-bullets. Being able to upgrade your military is more than sufficient reason to keep a large treasury in IV.
- Rock Beats Laser: Way too much explanation. Just the facts, ma'am.
- The All-Seeing A.I.: No evidence in the current games that the AI knows the map and resource locations ahead of time.
- You Fail Economics Forever: I hope it is clear why so much of that conversation was cut.
- Your Mileage May Vary: Dear gods, can we get rid of all the subjective tropes on main pages, please? YMMV is a phrase that could be applied to anything and is nearly always used to justify some controversial point that more properly belongs in Just Bugs Me. Here: JustBugsMe.Civilization. Add it all there if you want, go crazy.
What's with the sudden revisionism about 255 aggression Gandhi in Civ 1? This is one of the most famous bugs not just in Civ, but all of video games.
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