FWIW, I liked the map of the teams with the logos better than the one with the abbreviations. They're hard to read, especially the ones written over borders.
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Yeah, just want to see why it was changed first in case we can't use the original.
Thoughts on adding an entry for the Steagles in the defunct folder? I'm not sure if they would qualify as a defunct team necessarily, but the history behind the merger makes them worth mentioning.
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The Steagles are mentioned in both teams' entries, but if you think there's a fun/interesting take with info that's not covered there, go for it!
Floating this out as an idea for improving this page (and perhaps other sports team pages) while we're waiting for the next season:
How do you all feel about giving each team its own Level 2 Heading and writing out the description in normal paragraphs rather than bulleted lists? Think that will look cleaner and be easier to read. If we follow the format I'm thinking of (like the different American states in The Several States), we could even slot in some basic stats in as quote text.
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Might also be time to proactively split those off onto their own page.
Only reason I'm hesitating to split is the subsequent wick work. I don't anticipate adding much to the page length, but we'll see.
Edited by Claystripe
New format looks good! One thing I'd do, maybe near the top, is have a commented-out (the double "%") statement that the notable players are drawn from those listed on the appropriate player pages. Otherwise, we might get some people adding all of their favorite players to that list regardless of actual historical significance.
Edited by BeerBaron
If anyone wants to, they're more than welcome to join with the reformatting, maybe starting from the bottom up. Absolutely no pressure on anybody, since I knew what I was getting into when I started this project and am happy to do it piecemeal over the next several days, but just wanted to extend the invite.
I have two random thoughts for possible improvements as I read through some of the entries. 1.) What about a notable "current" players line just above the "historic" players line? Feels odd to have active players in the historic section. 2.) The order of teams after the "established" line requires some math gymnastics to keep straight, going from "12th oldest" to "13th youngest" and figuring out how it all goes together. What if we just had them go from 1-32. (1st established...20th established...32nd established...) ?
I think we can just get rid of the age rankings; it turned out to be more convoluted than I'd thought when I got started, and I stuck with it.
I'm kinda ambivalent on the players section. The info section for some teams is already quite large, so my only hesitation is adding another line to it.
Year established fits since its about the teams and their history, I could see dumping the players list though.
Idk, I like the players list as an informal index for further reading (and there's something intangible that I find mentally satisfying about it). My ambivalence is on splitting it. The "current" section makes some sense, but there are only a few teams that it would even apply to, and those would move only one or two names.
I don't want to get rid of the year established section, just the "oldest/youngest" ranking, which seems to be pretty self-explanatory.
Edited by Claystripe
Want to make some predictions for the 2020 award winners among us regular editors?
MVP - Rodgers// // OPotY - Henry (Adams may make it close, but every 2000+ yard rusher except one has won the award. The sole exception being Dickerson in 1984 when Dan Marino won it with his all time great passing season.)// // DPotY - Donald (Probably should be Watt, but the Steelers fizzled at the worst possible time and I think the voters will deduct that from Watt.)// // ORotY - Herbert// // DRotY - Young (Should be Chinn IMO, had the better full season, but Young has a higher profile and came on at the perfect time to impress voters.)// // Comeback - Alex Smith (Should be unanimous.)// // Coach - Stefanski// // Assistant Coach - Daboll//
Edited by BeerBaron Hide / Show Replies
Those all sound like winners (and also where my vote would go; I might pick Bowles for AC, but that's probably just recency bias)
Yeah, Bowles certainly has a case too. The other one that might be close is ORotY with Justin Jefferson. When in doubt, lean QB though.
Listen, I'm a Chargers fan, so Herbert might as well be Jesus Christ in my book. Can't imagine anyone else winning, even with Jefferson's amazing year.
If we're that close to the page length limit, let's split off the divisions/teams to their own page.
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If this is in reference to my comment about the Rams entry, I was referring to not to the length of the entire page but to the wall of text that specific entry was becoming. I'm pretty sure we're still well under the limit
About Johnny "Football" Manziel. So, first round draft pick, first year a complete bust, do we place him in the QB folder, the Notorious Players Folder, or don't even bother?
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The general consensus seems to be to wait until a player does something notable. There's a reason Teddy Bridgewater hasn't been added yet even though he looks like he has a promising future, and there's plenty of first-round draft busts that aren't on the list, notorious or otherwise (Christian Ponder and Jake Locker are just a couple that come to mind). Also, we generally don't put players in the "Notorious" section just for being busts, with the possible exception of Ryan Leaf.
True, but to be fair, Teddy Bridgewater to my knowledge hasn't been hyped up like Manziel was. Manziel was supposedly going to be the "Next great QB" of the NFL.
A little late, but I agree with leaving that alone for now. Manziel is a bust in my opinion, but he doesn't belong in the notorious section either. Yet.
If he must be added, put him in the QB section — unless it is meant to be for the better players.
Edited by NobleSpirit Damn it ... TV Tropes is like crack! Oh well, I need my fix.
So, how about now? Granted, now we got a new issue... Where do we even begin? What do we glance over (besides his playing skills, outside of his 30-0 loss to the Bengals on his first start)? Do we mention Hue Jackson supposedly saying that Manziel had to go as part of his Head Coaching deal with the Browns? Obviously, the police investigation is on-going into the domestic abuse case, but its looking like his career is done.
Additionally, no mention of Greg Hardy? If we got Petterson and Rice in the Notorious Player folder, shouldn't Greg Hardy be there too?
Edited by SwordsageRagnar
I think Manziel is just another example of "god hates Cleveland" which just as well could be a trope all to itself... Many people would have called him the best QB prospect of his draft and the Browns needed a QB. So naturally they drafted him and Cleveland being Cleveland he spectacularly fails to live up to expectations...
Greg Hardy definitely deserves to be on the list, so I added him. Johnny Manziel has probably done enough to earn a place there as well, if you want to add him (I haven't followed him very closely).
Thoughts on adding a "Draft Bust" section? Trent Richardson was recently added to the "Notorious Players" section, which I really don't agree with. I understand the notability of disappointing players like Richardson, but to me, the notorious section belongs to the O.J. Simpsons or Aaron Hernandezes of the NFL, not to people whose only crime is not living up to expectations.
Edited by Scorpio3002 Hide / Show Replies
The problem is that draft busts are a highly subjective business. Especially for players who are still active or whose last game is not long ago. On all objective counts Tim Tebow would count as a bust for the Broncos (first round pick with unimpressive stats who did not stay long with his team) but add him at the peril of a flame war...
Edited by Jhonny
As true as that may be, a "Draft Bust" section wouldn't be any more subjective than a "Notorious Players" section. I personally disagree with Peterson being on there (this wasn't some mean drunk taking out his aggression on his kids, he just went too far disciplining his son. He crossed a line, but nobody can agree exactly where that line should be drawn), but the greater consensus appears to be that he deserves notoriety, so I won't edit him out of it. A case could also be made for putting Ray Lewis in there, but again, the general consensus is that he does not deserve notoriety. We're already dealing with subjectivity; I just don't agree with any list where Trent Richardson and Jamarcus Russel appear right next to Ray Rice and O.J. Simpson.
Hell with it, I'm making a "Notable Draft Busts" section.
Edited by Scorpio3002
The update about Seattle being the "northernmost" misses the point a bit. It's also one of the westernmost and is far closer to the other NFC West teams. I don't think it fits with the other "geographic disparity" examples about the division breakdown.
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