I really think we should get rid of the Seasonal Rot page. A lot of it is just people nitpicking at every little thing. I believe it would easier to simply go with the majority opinion that the first five seasons are great while the rest of questionable quality. And while I personal like the later season I can why people would have that opinion.
I thought it would be cool if we did friends episode titles on the recap pages to describe the episodes like they have on the Doctor Who recap pages. I have a few ideas, but I haven't seen all the episodes. Is there anybody who has and wants to help me come up with them?
Unhari
I am well aware that this is going to ruin someone's day, so sorry about that, but in the recap of Season 3, Episode 1, "The Magnificent Seven," the four dead humans haven't been added to the running casualty tally, which makes the tally four short on every single recap page from then on... I'd fix it myself, but I've only just started season 3, and the web is dark and full of spoilers. -U
Build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett.
Deggans Rule/Bechdel Test
Can we just agree that a series with two white brothers as the protagonists is never going to have two or more non-white members of the main cast, and rarely will feature women not interacting with or discussing the heroes? Short of some kind of body switching thing I guess.
Anyway, it just seems redundant to list these as failed under every single episode recap. I didn't want to start an edit war, so I thought I'd bring it up here before trimming the entries out.
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I don't think Deggans Rule and the Bechdel Test are to be listed under every single episode recap, especially if they fail.
Just made this comment myself on the recap discussing. I think putting them on the main trope list is fine, but it seems like a low blow on the show to keep hammering on it, particularly given the fact that there are plenty of good female and non-white characters, we just have two male white leads.
In the beginning there was nothing, and it exploded. Terry Pratchett 35 tropes so far.
With the recent changes to the Super Weight and Jesse Turner examples I reconsidered the ranking of the characters' powers and abilities in the show, and thought I'd open a discussion. The Super Weight scale for the show in general needs some updating, as a lot of characters are in odd positions. Warning, long post.
First off, Jesse Turner is not necessarily less powerful than Lucifer. I checked the episode he appears in again, and it sort of contradicts itself. On the one hand Castiel says that Jesse grows stronger with Lucifer's presence. He also directly says that at full power, Jesse will destroy the entire Host of Heaven with a single word. That easily puts him in Type 5 territory. Can Lucifer do this himself? I don't know. And if the power is derived from him, why does he need Jesse as a weapon in the first place? I also see a bit of a problem with treating a one-shot character who suffered Chuck Cunningham Syndrome (he didn't just put himself on a bus, he just completely vanished from existence, and nobody, not even Lucifer, ever mentions him again) as integral to the show's mythology.
I can see Sam and the Prophets as Type 2s (as powerful as regular humans with small supernatural abilities), but the Demons and the Ghosts are clearly Type 3s (complete supernatural powers). ALL demons are Type 3s, as even the foot soldiers show things like people-hurling telekinesis and Demonic Possession. The ghosts vary a bit, but they're also usually Type 3s, again with telekinesis, plus intangibility and sometimes possession. Monsters are a really varied lot. Some are more type 2s, other type 3s, but lumping them all into one section like that seems wrong.
The Angels are difficult. Depowered Angels are clearly type 2. They're human, but can see demon faces and hear Angelic voices. Regular Angels are all clear-cut Type 3. I'd be fine with moving the Archangels up to type 5, as Raphael blacks out the Eastern Seaboard when he manifests on Earth, and Lucifer's rise immediately sets off a chain of disaster events. Gabriel throws Sam and Dean into a pocket dimension, and Sam in a time loop. Their actual combat powers don't seem over Type 4 though, so it's a bit of a wash. As for the Seraphs, there are only two more-or-less confirmed examples, Zachariah and Castiel. Do either of them really show the kind of abilities that would make them type 4s, as in cause large-scale disasters by themselves? Zachariah may have trapped Dean in another pocket dimension, or he may have just used time travel. As for Castiel being wary of Lucifer and Michael when he's in god mode, I'm not quite sure how much of a threat they'd be to him at that point. He blew up their brother simply by snapping his fingers. Granted that Michael and Lucifer are more powerful than the other two archangels, but we don't how large the power disparity between them is.
Sorry for the detailed post, but that's the problem you get with a long-running continuity. As more mythology gets added things start to become blurry or even contradict each other, and the mythology becomes increasingly harder to reconcile.
Edited by 70.33.253.45 You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!" Hide / Show Replies
From a few online sources. Like Supernatural Wikia. Check Jesse Turner's individual powers on different pages, they explain in more detail. He has two abilities that "might" put him in type5. 1. Nigh-Omnipotence: Jesse Turner has this ability "only with Lucifer's physical presence on Earth" 2. Reality Warping: Again, it was listed as "made extremely powerful following Lucifer's presence on Earth" 3. Teleportation- Jesse Turner is listed as Average Teleporters (third class) when high tier demons and ALL angels are at least Advanced Teleporters (second class), while Seraph and Archangels are ALL Higher Teleporters (first class) Note that most of his more impressive abilities require Lucifer's presence on Earth.
Castiel did say that Jesse could potentially destroy the Heavenly Host easily, but you have to remember that 99.9% of the Host is average angels. However, there is a huge power gap between Seraphs and angels that most people do not realize.
Here are a few Seraph abilities that normal angels don't have: 1. Memory Manipulation 2. Limited Conjuring/Reality Warping 3. Power Removal (Also note that Castiel perform this on Fred Jones, a powerful Reality Warper like Jesse.) 4. Teleportation first class 5. Advanced Healing (including monster infections) 6. Telepathy 7. Resurrection (seemingly unlimited, but hinted to still be limited by the "Natural Order") 8. And they keep all their powers even when totally cut off from Heaven.
Edited by 69.172.221.8
They make a compelling case, although I do have to question some of their conclusions. Reading all of it, they seem prone to making a number of wide assumptions not definitively supported in canon and have more to do with inconsistency in the way the Angels are portrayed. That would be a very lengthy debate however, and better suited for a Supernatural forum or that wiki's talk pages. For the purposes of this wiki I'm trusting their conclusions on that.
Here's the redrawn list:
- Super Weight:
- Type 0: Most normal people
- Type 1: Dean Winchester, Hunters in general
- Type 2: Sam Winchester, some Monsters, Croatoans, Prophets of the Lord, Angels without their Grace, Soulless Humans
- Type 3: Angels (lower-tier, including Cherubim), Nephilim, Ghosts, Demons, Reapers, Vampires, Witches, Leviathans, Pagan Gods, Alpha Monsters, Men of Letters
- Type 4: Seraphim (second-tier Angels), War, Famine, and Pestilence, Jesse Turner, Eve (the Mother of All Monsters)
- Type 5: Archangels (first-tier Angels, including Lucifer), Castiel with the souls of Purgatory, Metatronnote
- Type 6: Death, Godnote (who may or may not be Chuck Shurley)
May need some specification. Fully-inducted members like Henry can seemingly perform powerful feats of magic, such as using their own soul to travel through time. Since Henry is the only one we see do this, it might be best to limit it to just him.
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
That's not really on par with what we see most other level 3 characters do. And it's just one thing. For the most part, they're the same as level 2.
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Agreed. I amended the list again, with some additional recurring creatures in this Fantasy Kitchen Sink.
- Super Weight:
- Type 0: Most normal people
- Type 1: Dean Winchester, Hunters in general
- Type 2: Sam Winchester, some Monsters, Croatoans, Prophets of the Lord, Angels without their Grace, Soulless Humans, Men of Letters
- Type 3: Angels (lower-tier, including Cherubim), Nephilim, Ghosts, Demons, Reapers, Vampires, Werewolves, Witches, Shapeshifters, Psychics, Leviathans, Pagan Gods, Alpha Monsters, Fairies, Djinn
- Type 4: Seraphim (second-tier Angels), War, Famine, and Pestilence, Jesse Turner, Eve (the Mother of All Monsters), particularely powerful Psychics
- Type 5: Archangels (first-tier Angels, including Lucifer), Castiel with the souls of Purgatory, Metatronnote
- Type 6: Death, Godnote (who may or may not be Chuck Shurley)
Crowley should probably go onto tier 4.
And does Metatron really deserve Tier 5? If I recall correctly his most impressive display of power was teleporting Kevin away from Crowley.
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I'm wondering if the archdemons (Azazel, Lillith, Alastair, Samhain, Crowley, Abaddon) shouldn't all be moved to type 4. Their individual accumulative powers are usually so vast that they could level most of a town if they wanted to, especially with their white light energy blasts and their advanced telekinesis and pyrokinesis.
Yeah, the note markup doesn't work in discussion. Here's the content for context:
- Metatron: As the Scribe of God, he has enough innate knowledge to affect events on an almost cosmic scale.
- God: May be either Type 6 or Type 7 depending on the exact nature of his relation with Creation, the Natural Order and Death.
The thing with Metatron is that despite being a low-ranking angel, he was witness to Creation, and all that knowledge is ingrained in his celestial mind, which the immensely powerful Archangels can't claim. He had to perform a fairly complicated ritual, but as we saw he could rid Heaven of Angels entirely, and that's not the only one of God's "great levers".
Edited by 70.33.253.42 You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Since it's been a week, I'm posting a third write-up of the scale. If there are no objections within another week, I'll update the old entry with this one.
- Super Weight:
- Type 0: Most normal people
- Type 1: Dean Winchester, Hunters in general
- Type 2: Sam Winchester, other Special Children, some Monsters, Croatoans, lower Witches, Prophets of the Lord, Angels without their Grace, Soulless Humans, Dr. Visyak, Men of Letters
- Type 3: Angels (lower-tier Celestials, including Cherubim), Nephilim, Ghosts, Demons (black-eyed), Reapers, Vampires, Werewolves, powerful Witches, Shapeshifters, Psychics, Leviathans, Pagan Gods, Alpha Monsters, Fairies, Djinn
- Type 4: Seraphim (second-tier Celestials), Archdemons, War, Famine, and Pestilence, Jesse Turner (The Antichrist), Eve (the Mother of All Monsters), particularely powerful Psychics
- Type 5: Archangels (first-tier Celestials, including Lucifer), Castiel with the souls of Purgatory
- Type 6: Death, Godnote (who may or may not be Chuck Shurley)
If that gets him to tier 5, wouldn't Kevin be there too since he knows how to banish all demons/angels from Earth? I just feel like it inaccurately represents his power since Metatron knows how to do things, but he can't actually do them on his own. All he can do is activate a trap that's already in place.
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Compelling argument. Pure knowledge seems too iffy to work with for the purposes of the scale next to physical power. A character could potentially have as much knowledge as God and still be able to do nothing more to their environment than any other human, making them type 2 at best. Same with Oracles and Seers. I've amended the write-up by removing him to reflect this.
Edited by 70.33.253.43 You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
With no further comments I assume a concensus has been reached, and have adjusted the SW examples accordingly.
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
On the Recap page, can somebody please change the link for the Season 8 episode "Torn And Frayed" from "Tom And Frayed" to its proper name? I would do it myself, but can't for the life of me figure out how.
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You can ask the mods to change it into a custom title, but this would only change the way it is displayed around the wiki, not the link itself. The only way to really correct something like that is to move the page to the proper name.
I performed the move, corrected the wicks, and added the old page to the Cutlist.
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
What happened to all of the Headscratchers? Something like half the page is missing. Were they deleted for some reason?
I'm trying to think of the name of the trope where Ruby possesses "Jane Doe" the comatose patient who had recently died; I want to say convenient coma but I'm not sure... any ideas?
"In distress", my ass.
I Got Better was renamed to Unexplained Recovery due to misuse inspired by its Stock Phrase nature. As I've not watched the show, I have to ask whether the following entry really fits Unexplained Recovery, one of the other "return from death" tropes, or doesn't really apply at all.
* IGotBetter: This tends to happen a lot. Although usually not without a huge amount of pain and agony behind it.
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I would say the show doesn't really have any big unexplained recovery, yeah sure, Sak and Dean har come back from death/extreme injury/ect. a ton of times, but it's almost always justified...
Was anyone else more than a little bummed when the episode "Monster Movie" made it canon that Supernatural and The X-Files do not take place in the same universe? Maybe it was just me, but I actually thought that episode was a shout-out to the X-Files episode "The Post-Modern Prometheus." Seriously, watch both episodes and tell me Supernatural did not follow that format to a T. Both were references to classic monster movies/novels (Frankenstein in the X-Files, Dracula in Supernatural, not to mention both episodes were shot in black and white), and both were lighter and softer episodes of otherwise angsty shows. Jim Beaver even appeared in an X-Files episode, and his role as a coroner in that episode totally meshes with the fact that hunters tend to adopt different personas for a case. If I'm not mistaken, Bobby pretended to be a coroner in a later episode of Supernatural, as well. Even though Supernatural has always kind of skirted the issue of aliens I still think they missed out on a bunch of great opportunities by setting Supernatural in a separate universe.
Edited by faiteslebruit
Is there going to be a page for the Ghostfacers series?
Working on cleaning up List of Shows That Need Summary