Discussion Series / Firefly

A page ComicBook.Serenity seems good to me.

And done. I'll fill in some more of the tropes later.

Little bit, yeah. Lot of Sci-Fi shows don't avert those tropes, so the averted trope gives as much an idea of what the show is as the included tropes.

I really don't think so. Not as a separate list, that is. It should be integrated back into the main list.

Agreed, it's sort of silly. A lot of them aren't even close to Omnipresent Tropes, either, and don't even bear mentioning on the page at all (Really, Reality Has No Subtitles entry? Really?).

I'll reintergrate them back into the main list if no one has any objections.

Well, most of them can just... go. Most of the aversions aren't of tropes common enough to merit a listing. Though some of them (like Kissing Under the Influence) are specifically referenced by the show so those should go into the main list as a subversion. But things like Instant Emergency Response? That's just a plain aversion of a non-omnipresent trope and as such really has no place on the list.

Done.

I'd be cool with the ship being an Expy. I just have an issue with Expy itself, because it seems that people keep square-pegging it into "this character vaguely resembles this other character, so they must be Expies!" when an Expy is essentially the exact same character with minor differences.

I know Whedon has said that Early was also inspired by Boba Fett, and the ship itself was a very deliberate reference to that, but Early himself is too dissimilar to be an Expy.

"The show told the story of a run-down tramp freighter, and its crew and passengers, trying to get along in the more isolated reaches of human space in the aftermath of a civil war."

Close enough. The movie is what more gets into the anti-authoritarian evils of government and River's fugitive story, less so much the series.

I agree. It's gone from being useful to being incredibly annoying. We do not need to Pot Hole every single instance of a character's name. This is heading into Sink Hole territory.

Saffron is referred to that name by Mal in "Trash" while they're in the museum.

Point of clarification, it wasn't a museum, it was the guy's private collection.

Good edit. We shouldn't insert WMG into main articles, only known facts.

Hmmm... Painstakingly? I have read articles that claimed the translator was not a native Mandarin-speaker, but an ABC whose linguistic background was in Cantonese. Probably the only people who know for sure are the actual production team. But I don't know how much credit should be awarded for "trying hard" anyway.

I think the mere fact that they even went through a mild amount of effort disqualifies this from "Blind Idiot" Translation. Most of the works on that page didn't put forth any effort towards making their work sound decent, and if the actors practiced the proper translation and they had someone who knew the language on-set, that sounds like enough to qualify it for something better from "Blind Idiot" Translation.

I agree; calling it "Blind Idiot" Translation doesn't do justice to (a) the work they put it to make it sound right, (b) the sheer difficulty of getting American actors to speak good Mandarin.

On the other hand: Tam is the Cantonese transliteration of the Chinese surname in question; it is reasonable that they speak some Cantonese-influenced Mandarin. (The Mandarin version is Tan)

Plus, we now have the phrase hun dan. So, cut them a break.

From a linguistic POV, I'm not sure that the show demonstrates this trope at all. Few loanwords are pronounced exactly as they would be in the languages of their origin (consider deja vu, gauze, kung fu, or wiener), and so it would be incredibly unlikely that a culture that speaks English predominantly would pronounce Mandarin words (or even phrases) much more accurately than they do in the show.

However, without information to confirm that the creators were intentionally aware that in this instance, RealityIsUnrealistic, I'm not suggesting that this trope be removed.

Just FYI.

1)Go to this page. 2)Click the edit button. 3)Add quotes.

Ah, I see I'm far from the first person to add a Serenity reference to this page.

I wouldn't call having one actual entry on the entire page "cataloguing every instance", but it doesn't bother me if we remove it. I think that was there to show just how incredibly stupid people can be when it comes to hating the show.

It's also good for a laugh.

Well, it's debatably okay to add if a work has a persistent and widespread Hatedom that takes center stage in any discussion of it, but every work has people who don't like it.

Done and done.

We have an Image Pickin' forum if you want to get more input on page images.

I concur with the above troper. I've been following the mini Edit War and if you don't stop it, HG 131, an edit ban may be in your immediate future.

Dark: Yes, the suits are not physically connected to the ship. What I meant is that they need air to fill their tanks, correct? Where do they get that air? Most likely, the ship, before they head into the black. There would be no point in pulling air from the ship to put in an air tank, as it would not last longer at all, since the ship likely uses the same scrubbing as the tanks that Taelor mentioned. That, or you're just removing 15 minutes of air from the ship to place it into a tank. 15 lost, 15 gained, net of zero. Even if the air in the tanks was already present, it would've made them last...how much, at most? An hour or so, perhaps? And they only have a few space suits. Not enough for the entire crew, considering at least one was wrecked in "Our Mrs. Reynolds". Either way, it doesn't matter. Using the suits would've prolonged the inevitable (since they weren't expecting anyone to find them), and the idea of getting everyone to leave ultimately saved more oxygen then they would have by using the suits. In addition, Mal came closer to death by bullet wound to the stomach than running out of air, making this a relatively moot point.

The air would already be in the tanks, and it would be way more then an hour. I'll even agree with the idea that they don't have enough suits (though I'd assume they have something to patch them), but Mal should have put it on, as it was PREPARED for him, AKA the air was already there. So, the air is already in it, and the air might have helped, as I think that his problems weren't 100% bullet wound inflicted (AKA, he was dying from blood loss and running out of air).

It doesn't matter. The simple fact that we're having an argument over it means that it's not a clear-cut case of an Idiot Plot, and therefore doesn't belong in the Main article. Put it in JustBugsMe if you want; that's what it's there for!

Mal wasn't dying because he was running out of air. When the pirates arrived, they pumped fresh air into the ship, and then he got the atmosphere processors working when he reactivated the engine.

70.146.173.100: The ship was saying that it was about to run out of air.

Fighteer: Then why do pages like Hype Aversion exist? Not everyone agrees on it, it should be cut.

Way too many assumptions (and it's just pretty wrong) in saying that its an idiot plot: 1) Mal coulda been saving the suit for when air/heat (although River could be wrong about that...) ran lower, just so he could be more comfortable for longer. 2) he could easily have been shot long before that point came, especially because the salvagers/pirates brought new air in with them. 3) he could have then fallen unconscious before getting a chance to put the suit on/didn't put it on once he was shot because he didn't have time or was incapable of putting it on or in a 'do or die, so what does the space suit matter?' mood. 4) what you're saying is that he could have gotten the extra air from the suit. Why would you use that air first, and also use it for protection from the cold (although space isn't really cold, then again its possible that part of the ships design makes it lose heat fast to make up for the engines) while the ship is still full of air and heat? it would make more sense to use the ship as long as possible, and then go to the suit as a last resort (not to mention comfort). And if air was really the only problem, then he could have just taken the air out of the suit. 5) it had no effect on the plot, which did involve some 'idiocy' in that they didn't repair their ship right so it broke, but the running out of air had no effect on the plot (other than that it would happen eventually, which it would have with or without the suit) and whether or not/when Mal puts on the suit really didn't matter at all, so it definitely doesn't fit under idiot plot.

Okay, I made the above edit just to be somewhat dickish.

Onto the point.

Actually, it said: "Life support failure. Check oxygen levels at once." Meaning it was low, but that wasn't the primary concern. I think the stomach wound probably was.

In any case donning the suit had no advantages. Supposing it was prepped with fresh oxygen, he would've had a few more hours. Awesome! More time to sit around and die.

However, those few hours weren't needed, as he was shot by the captain. Hell, wearing the suit would've cut down on his manual dexterity, meaning he was even more screwed in that case, since manipulating the engine part, stabbing himself with the needle, and getting the gun would've been difficult if not impossible.

Also your point about Hype Aversion is invalid. Fighteer wasn't saying that if not EVERYONE EVER agrees with it it should be cut - but we're having an argument about it, meaning it shouldn't be put on the main page until an agreement is reached by the involved parties. That's why the page (and this discussion) exists - so people can discuss it.

To cap this off: A bullet wound's probably gonna kill you faster than depleting oxygen levels - especially if your ship just got a fairly large injection of air from another ship. Mal wasn't being much of an idiot when he didn't don the suit because he figured he was dead anyway, why prolong the inevitable?

70.146.173.100: The ship was saying that it was about to run out of air.

While the engine was offline. Once Mal plugs the part back in and starts the engine up, the voice cuts off.

I note that I've worn a haz-mat suit with SCBA gear before (like SCUBA, but not for underwater). It is FREAKING HARD to move, breathe, or do much of anything in them. And they're VERY heavy.

Now, granted, I'm a 90 pound girl, and Mal has more horsepower in those muscles, but it's still really hard even for people who have a lot of strength.

It might have saved Mal time, but on the other hand, he would also have been breathing harder because of the sheer effort of wearing the suit.

I recognize that the space suits aren't exactly the same as type A PPE, but really, I'd only expect a spacesuit to be a lot heavier, if just because of the insulation system.

People in the hazardous waste industry don't wear type A PPE for long, and neither do astronauts take long spacewalks in their suits. You can seriously pass out in them, which is a big problem if you're in a hard to get to area.

Did you at least move them to the movie page?

Yeah, he did, I just checked. That, or they were already there.

Mispost. Ignore this.