I think it's a pretty classic example and doesn't "fail" any necessary aspect of the trope. The character is hammered home as a complete asshole in every scene before he's killed, and this keeps the killer sympathetic.
The show doesn't spend any time mourning the victim. We don't learn anything about him that changes our mind about what a terrific asshole he was. And the love interest running into the killer's arms speaks toward a lack of concern for the victim rather than vice versa. The student body as a whole is spooked that someone they knew has died, but it's a natural reaction to a shocking event, and the show barely covers it.
The focus is instead on the next plot point: what's going to happen to the killer. The victim's parents are brought up not because we're supposed to mourn with them (we don't even see them), but to present a threat to the wellfare of the killer: the parents want justice, so the killer will need Nucky's connections for protection.
The fact that there's no mystery about who the killer is has no bearing on the trope, since it's not a murder mystery story, and this trope isn't limited to murder mysteries.
The thing is, the murder-mystery requisite was added on the Square Peg Round Trope entry, which was backed by an Ask The Tropers enquire / mod statement from several months ago if I recall correctly.
I'm putting back the example as the setup is clear enough. I'm removing Van Alden's coworker one as the guy is scarred but doesn't die, and the trope requires an homicide. Pay Evil unto Evil may fit. IMO The trope description of all these tropes (including Kick The Son Of A Bitch) and the jurisprudence is messy
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Aviator Fan is quite persistent in the YMMV regarding Richard Harrow. Is there anyone with some authority who can weight on this?
Removed:
- Hell Is That Noise: In Season 3, Van Alden reaches his Rage Breaking Point in the workplace when a coworker mocks him by doing an impression of a horny housewife, which bears an uncanny resemblance to Lucy Danziger's slurred whining. Van Alden promptly shoves an iron in the man's face, but the Call-Back persists as his screams of agony start to sound like the "extremely penetrating" infant Lucy had sired.
Hell Is That Noise is a YMMV. I'm also not convinced that this is deliberate. Can someone confirm that this scene was supposed to call back to Lucy and the baby? Seems to me that Van Alden has left that guilt behind at this point and is now more concerned with being the breadwinner for his new family.
Took out this from anachronisms:
"Nucky sells Thompson Submachine guns to the IRA stating that their claim to fame was in the trenches of WW 1 when in fact the first model: The M1921 was not created until 3 years after the end of the war."
It's a bit complicated but there is actually no anachronism here. Nucky only says that it is called a "trench broom" and (after doing a little demonstration) that you can see why. "Trench broom" was, indeed, one of the commercial nicknames
given to the gun when it was released to the civilian market in 1921 (another one was "anti-bandit gun" - the irony!) because the gun had been developed to be supplied in the WW 1 trenches (patent is from 1915) but the first units were not completed until 1919, a year after the end of the war.
Well, we have The Mistress, but it doesn't really apply since Nucky is not currently married.
Nucky's father wasn't recast. After all Tom Aldredge didn't die until after shooting all his planned scenes so there was no need.
In the second season the Commodore introduces Eli to the men who "made" Atlantic City. One of these old guys stands up and greets Eli in a language I've never heard of and raises his glass to him. Anyone know what language this is and what it means?
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It's a Latin toast meaning, "To us and those like us... damn few left".
Is that a clue to who they are? I'm not well versed in 1920's culture so was Latin like the language of a certain elite class or something?
I read some discussion about that on I think Television Without Pity. It's sort of like Dog Latin, as the translation suggests- it's not an Ancient Roman tag or anything. The people in the scene are supposed to be like Masons or Elks or something like that, I think, and I'm guessing they probably just used a Latin dictionary at some point and/or maybe knew some because of the use of Latin for mass.
Hodor
Latin was a cornerstone of any reputable expensive education until pretty recently, and plenty of "the elite" (at least the older ones) have a basic grounding in it even nowadays. Doesn't seem at all far-fetched that elderly, upper-class old money in the 20s would use it.
Edited by johnnye
When Margaret meets Juliet for the first time, the latter greets the former with an Irish greeting, I was wondering what that meant. Bit of a stickler for these things as bilingual bonus can lead to better revelations.
I asked last year how many Historical Domain Characters were too many but received no answer. With a new season underway and still more "real life" characters I decided to delete that bit and simply state that most of the supporting characters are based on real persons. For convenience, should someone decide to restore that section, here is the list as I found it.
Al Capone, Arnold Rothstein, Lucky Luciano, Meyer Lansky, Johnny Torrio, Frankie Yale, Jim Colosimo, Jake Guzik, Eddie Cantor, Theodore Hardeen (Houdini's brother), Harry Daugherty, U.S. Senator Walter Evans Edge, mayors Edward Bader, Frank Hague and Harry Bacharach, Edith Day, Sophie Tucker, George Remus, Bugsy Siegel, Joe Masseria, and, not least, Senator and future President Warren Harding (as well as his wife and mistress).
Just wondering... if I've ever decide to create a character sheet for this show, should I take out all tropes that apply to a character in particular from the main page, or leave it untouched?
Took out Improbable Aiming Skills (at least as it relates to Richard Harrow) because it does not apply. Losing an eye would not effect one's aiming with a rifle that had a scope at all; if you had two eyes you would close the one you weren't looking through the scope with. Also, the shot we saw him take (less than a hundred yards, stationary target) was not at all difficult.
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Not to mention the fact that aligning iron sights with your remaining eye while aiming with the corresponding hand wouldn't hamper your aiming, anyway.
Azor Ahai
So, I took out the potholes identifying Rothstein as a Complete Monster. One, I don't think you're supposed to pothole YMMV tropes like that- not positive.
But besides that, he really doesn't qualify IMO. As I was noting in a Trope Repair Shop discussion of the Complete Monster trope, that thing where he tricked someone into choking to death is off screen, and he doesn't really come across as the most evil and threatening character in the series. Having watched the first season, I'd say he's way way too reasonable to qualify, and none of his on-screen actions are notable bad by the standards of the show. He's ruthless and unpleasant, but not really a Complete Monster.
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Good call.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And even if it is broke, just ignore it and maybe it'll be sort of OK — like the environment."
Can someone confirm whether this is a mistake? I don't want to correct it yet, in case I'm wrong.
My understanding was that Jimmy's mom was the one poisoning the Commodore. Jimmy accused her of it and she didn't deny it. But he didn't really blame her, nor did he want her to go to jail, so they accused the maid. She was a plausible culprit because she prepared his food, and the Commodore believed it easily because he never liked her. However, Nucky figured out that it wasn't her, probably because of her lack of motive (or maybe someone told him? I don't remember). So, instead of having her arrested as the Commodore wanted, he gave her some money and told her to leave town.
Am I missing something?
Edited by Embryon "If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And even if it is broke, just ignore it and maybe it'll be sort of OK — like the environment." Hide / Show Replies
No, it really was the maid. I know a lot of people were confused by this, though, so don't feel bad. Terence Winter jossed this one in an interview.
http://hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/interview-boardwalk-empire-creator-terence-winter-post-mortems-season-one
Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I really thought she was a scapegoat until now.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And even if it is broke, just ignore it and maybe it'll be sort of OK — like the environment."
Would Rothstein count as a teetotaler?
There are several references to him opting for milk or tea over liquor because he wants to 'stay sharp' at the tables. It's also well documented that the actual Rothstein never smoke, drank or womanized.
Would it qualify him as straight edge evil?
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Good thought, I was thinking of that trope in relation to him the other day, but it slipped my mind. Not sure if there is a teetotaler trope, but he's definitely Straight Edge Evil- I'll add it.
Hodor
Woot, thank you. I just joined and was hoping I could become familiar enough to maybe help with a character page for the show. We'll see.
Glad I could help.
I'm not sure about this example.
Asshole Victim:
I agree with the asshole + audience angle (reactions vary in that the horrifying outcome is a bit too much, from what I've read), but it seems to fail other aspects of the trope in the next episode: in-verse he's missed, it's a big fuss in the campus and everybody knows the culprit (no mystery here, he's quickly arrested) some lines talk about the naturally concerned parents and even his love interest, who was molested by the deceased, is disturbed by his demise.
Perhaps a subversion, I wonder.
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