Discussion SelfDemonstrating / Deadpool

Have to agree, this thing is unreadable

The self-demonstrating page will remain for the folks who enjoy it, but there will be a reader-friendly Comic Book page soonish.

This isn't the only page (and subpages) of a character that's self demonstating.

There is Doctor Doom and Thanos too. No point complaining about it here when its widespread on this wiki.

But they have the OPTION of being self-demonstrating. With Deadpool's entire article, it's nothing BUT self-demonstrating, that's his point.

It's here: YMMV.Deadpool. It doesn't display because this is a "fun" page, not a "work" page.

According to interviews, yes. But we'll just have to wait and see if we get more confirmation closer to the release since the film is in early stages yet and things might change.

If he doesn't bemoan the lack of time between panels to shoot people or time during panels to talk a lot more than he should possibly be able to, it's obvously a new spinoff Movie!Deadpool.

Oh I do hope he smashes the fourth wall into bits!!

He will, according to interviews

During the second volume run of his solo series, many humorous pages spread across the Internet like wildfire, turning him from Ensemble Dark Horse to a Breakout Character.

Nevermind.

The article title only seems to change to "Dead Pool" when you link to it from a misspelled link elsewhere (in this case, in the Chaotic Neutral article - where he was incorrectly named.)

False alarm.

Edit: OR somebody just fixed it manually. I don't know, but it's accurate now so all is well.

I second this.

He has personally killed, tortured, and crippled more people than any serial-killer in history in as gruesome fashions as possible for kicks, giggles, impulse, and molah, while cracking jokes and trying to look as cool as possible doing so. He's entertaining in a fictional context, but by real world standards it's impossible to get around that he's a Complete Monster whose sheer scale literally makes Joseph Fritzl look like Mother Theresa. So Yeah, we don't have to be ashamed of enjoying his Crosses the Line Twice antics, but Chaotic Evil it is or we all start to completely mix up entertainment and reality.

He's saved the world, attempted to become a better person, petted the dog on several occasions... He's definitely not chaotic evil. If it weren't for his balls out insanity he'd be a good guy, most likely. The guy's done a lot of evil things, but he's also done (or at least attempted to do) a lot of good things, as well. He's wishy-washy enough to be considered Chaotic Neutral.

...Then again, it seems to depend on what story arc he's partaking in...

He's an unbelevably sadistic torturing mass-murderer and adrenaline junkie mercenary assassin who always returns to type. To quote Doctor Who: "No, that's just the way your type can live with yourselves. Sometimes you let one of them get away." So, sorry, but if you torture 100 people to death in as gruesome fashion as possible while taking excruciating pleasure and trying to look as cool and appealing as possible doing so, then go help a cat out off a tree and complain about how misunderstood you are to get some sympathy, and then return to doing the same thing alll over again the next day, this does not anywhere near even the scales or make you into less of an insanely bloodthirsty Complete Monster.

Since this is fiction it is possible for more insincere, manipulative or amoral writers with no respect for reader intelligence to manufacture contrived even worse Omnicidal Maniac targets to redirect his type in a "monster on our side" direction (although it can easily be argued that any doomsday scenario boils down to pragmatic self-defence for general saints and absolute bastards alike), but the real world isn't nearly that convenient and it doesn't matter for relevance of objective matter-of-fact evaluation, as virtually every war in history has simply been about equally vicious bastards fighting for their own personal interests, adrenaline-kicks, and sense of innate superiority, or simply self-defence when attacked.

An assassin is an assassin is an assassin, who sometimes happens to be useful for local political interests, and there is no getting around that. He's ridiculously evil in a real world sense, but sometimes fights people who are even worse, or has strangely selective standards in the prison-style: "I may have chopped up and eaten my grandma for breakfast, but at least I didn't rape her!" "Do as I say, not as I do!" manner. "Chaotic Neutral"... Deadpool himself would probably laugh anyone who suggested it in the face, and if he was truly portrayed as such he wouldn't sell nearly as well. So, is he as bad as Lobo or The Joker? No, but less bad is not neutral.

We're currently discussing both the sudden change to self-written style and the sudden add of Chaotic Evil to the page at this forum thread, antvasima. We're thinking of reverting both. If you'd like to make your case for both, make it there.

Thanks, Strange.

And I still respectfully disagree. He's never done anything COMPLETELY uncalled for... Well, okay, if it's uncalled for, it doesn't represent wanton death. Less bad may not necessarilly be Neutral, but it CAN be. In my opinion, as well as in the opinion of many others, his tendency to do the somewhat right thing in the end, albeit in strange and violent ways, makes him nuetral. What keeps him from being Good is that he DOES do horrible things from time to time. What keeps him from being Evil is that he also does good things somewhat often.

So, really, I don't think anyone can be right here. We should just put down Your Mileage May Vary and leave it at that. Neither of us can be right, but neither of us can be wrong. There are a whole lot of factors that leave ol' Wade's alignment up for reader interpretation.

Agreed; it's definitely a YMMV thing.

Look, I'm not going to get into the whole debate thing, but a wall of words isn't the way to solve it. Even if rambling and talking incessantly is in character for Deadpool. Whatever the entry on the page ends up being, let's at least try to keep it concise, eh?

If you can't sum up Deadpool's alignment and the debate around it without putting up a wall of words on the page, then don't bother.

The only way to summarise the different sides of the YMMV (which I can live with) _is_ by getting quite lengthy, and I think that I did a fairly good job incorporating all of it, including the "switching back and forth all the time" from Strange's thread. If you can constrain all the relevant parts even more, without sacrificing quuality, or simply section it better, feel free to do so. I suppose that "Deadpool's own ambivalent it's-just-about-making-cash take" could be cut out for example, although I think it was good for keeping it reasonably in character.

Again, you really don't need to go into that much detail. The whole rest of the page more or less spells out his behavior. The alignment entry really doesn't have to say much more than "YMMV, Depending on the Writer". You know what happens to huge paragraphs like that on trope lists? They don't get read.

Removed another essay-length attempt to clarify this from the main page. I feel bad, 'cause it's well-written, but...Kids, honestly, Don't Try This at Home.

I think I'm in love with you. No seriously, that wall of text is awesome. I suggest sending it to Marvel Studios to see if they want to use it. Excellent job. We should find a way to implement it on the main page.

Really? Thanks. :)

Removed it from the main page again, this time by an anon IP.

I agree, it's great, and there should be a place for it somewhere in the Interwebs (there must be a Marvel character wiki, for starters). I'd also suggest possibly working the main ideas into the opening paragraphs.

But on this wiki, trope *examples* that get read are the short, snappy ones. Sticking it there is about guaranteeing it'll be completely disrespected.

Well, I have no idea where else to put it. I tend to write these things when I get an inspiration impulse. Do you have any helpful suggestions?

I know the feeling, believe me. :)

As I mentioned above, I'm very sure there's a Marvel Comics wikia that would be delighted to use it (if their article on Deadpool isn't self-demonstrating, it should be). Otherwise, how's about trying to work some of the ideas into more manageable chunks by incorporating them into other examples on this page, additional onese, or perhaps the main paragraphs?

If you want to try it, by all means go ahead.

don't think i could do it justice unfortunately.

Damn, I really want to. Curse you, time!

We can have him do it slowly. Even Dr Doom needs a slow descent from a normal article into a Self-Demonstrating Article. Isn't Deadpool's Catchphrase 'Blasting The Fourth Wall brick by brick!'?

In fact, let me give a start with some little pointers...

I think the first part is great, and I contributed to it personally, but the description of the tropes should remain "standard". Otherwise it gets hard explaining things. Also I think Wade should berate the reader a little more.

actually, strike that. The trope description is turning out nicely.

Hey, good progress so far! I'd help out, by I'm half-delirious with lack of sleep.

Hey, slowly, little by little, it's all like Deadpool himself is writing! Great job, guys! Just a little more and there will really be no fourth wall.

God, is chaotic and has no sense of decency, a page that would likely be frowned upon in any other circumstance... Great job, guys, it fits him perfectly!

It's actually not that bad, it's just, exactly like Wade would, the article almost gets a little mixed up in parts, like where he goes off to hum a theme song or something, or goes on a half paragraph rant on Squirrel Girl.

I really like Dr. Dooms and the Jokers pages, but I'm sorry to say that this one is not really up to par. Self-written pages should be an exception, and this one does not work out.

Hey, it's a work in progress, give it time. Besides... as Inferno says, Deadpool's article by definition has to be the one that's different from all the others, preferably as messily as possible. :)

I don't know, man... We have created a monster...

YES. That last one is MY FAVORITE QUOTE! Deadpool is actually being funny and deep at the same time. On one hand, it's a hilarious metaphor. On another, it actually works. And, finally, it pretty much single-handedly sums up his love with Death. And maybe his fling with Siryn.

Aaaand it was removed. Way to go. Oh well, the fighty-time one isn't that bad either, I guess. Still like the nut one better.

Well, it sure as hell wouldn't be mentioned in the article. The article is Deadpool only. Well, Deadpool and supporting Deadpool characters that don't have their own pages.

It depends from moment to moment. He's not a consistent monster. However the old "Yay, now is fighty time! Blood, blood, blood!" style quote at the start of the page is a much better example of what he is about than the nut-rant. He's definitely not ajust a passive harmless schizophrenic.

One minute he's a monster, the next he's a genial nutjob who's trying to save your ass. It depends on the write, DP's mood, the situation, what he had for lunch, who he's in love with, what weapons he's wielding, what costume he's wearing, who hired him, whether or not he has any Cheesy Puffs, who he's working with at the moment, how much he likes you, the location, the time, if he needs money, how much money you have, what state his morals are in, how funny you are, if you are in any way affiliated with Clowns or Norman Osborn, your relation, if any, to Weapon X, how much you like/dislike Wolverine, what your name is, the location of the nearest Mexican food restuarant...

...*takes deep breath* Okay, I'll just stop there. Long story short, Deadpool is about as unpredictable as the Joker, if not moreso. However, he does tend to be a protagonist nowadays, if not one that's a little violent.

The idea to keep it honest was to keep all the logical interpretations of alignment, not just the ones one person prefers. Hence: Chaotic Selfish / Chaotic Evil or Neutral Evil / Chaotic Neutral / Chaotic Stupid

Howsabout Chaotic EVERYTHING?