Just cut a ton of tropes that were blatantly troping the person, and not his works or fictional appearances. However, there were a few that I think could stand to stay on the page somewhere but I'm not sure where:
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- Oblivious to His Own Description: Cartoon screenwriter Mark Evanier recalls
a time he was invited to Neverland Ranch to discuss a proposed Celebrity Toon. Michael Jackson mentioned that he was familiar with Evanier's work on a previous show, remarking, "I love Richie Rich." Evanier, looking around the mansion, returned, "Michael... you are Richie Rich."
- Parody Assistance: He was a strong supporter of "Weird Al" Yankovic, letting him use the “Badder” set from Moonwalker to film the “Bad” parody, “Fat.”
- Personal Arcade: Michael had a giant arcade in his home, with dozens of video games and pinball machines. It was recreated for an exhibit in Beverly Hills; you can take a virtual panoramic tour of it here.
- Red Baron: The King of Pop.
Parody Assistance could go to the trivia page (if it hasn't already), and he's near-universally referred to as the King of Pop, so Red Baron can stay. Oblivious to His Own Description is pretty iffy, but I think it should stay cut, as it's a blatant case of troping a person.
And to be fair, considering the many trajectories his life went through, it'd be hard to not trope the man himself.
New Jack Swing musician and Afro Thunder fan from Canada who makes decent edits once in a while.
This is a title.
Took these out because the page is about Jackson's career, not his personal life.
In the 1990s, while he still was a top-grossing musician with further albums and concert tours, his public image slowly disintegrated. His noticable changes in appearance over the years, chalked up to plastic surgery and the skin disorder vitiligo, became a point of notoriety. Moreover, starting in 1993, several young boys would accuse Jackson of molesting them. Jackson was adamant in his proclamations of innocence, but this permanently soiled his reputation of being a charitable Friend to All Children. The one case that went to trial over 2003-05 found him not guilty, while he reached out-of-court settlements with two other accusers. Debates regarding his guilt or innocence remain highly charged to this day, and in the interest of avoiding edit wars and Internet Backdraft, it's best to keep the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment in mind here. Jackson's musical output decreased in this period. He only released one original album in the 2000s, and he did not go on any concert tours.
For MJ, we'd be remiss to include a bit of mention of his personal life because that's often included in how he gets portrayed in fiction. Including that leads to a deeper understanding of the various portrayals of MJ in works, which is a part of the purpose of these pages (almost like a combined Creator/Useful Notes).
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Don't have a particular preference, so if you wanna readd a bit about it I won't object.
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders!
I call bullshit on this; other pages about creators (David Bowie, Will Smith, Johnny Depp, Bill Cosby) have no problem going into the personalities and personal lives of the subject as well as their creative bodies of work, and will list the related tropes where appropriate. It feels more like attempting to restrict this particular page purely to his body of work is just an attempt to stick to Never Speak Ill of the Dead. Hell, until recently, Jackson had Overshadowed by Controversy on his YMMV page, but it didn't even list was the controversy was. Just that, hypothetically, there may have been a controversy in his life that overshadowed certain things.
Do the same people who claim "It's only about his work, his personal life has no place" feel the same way about THESE particular tropes being listed?
- Bunny-Ears Lawyer
- Cult of Personality
- Dude Looks Like a Lady
- Elvis Lives
- The Faceless
- Manchild
- Oblivious to His Own Description
- Odd Friendship
- Older Than They Look
- One of the Kids
- Only Known by Their Nickname
- Personal Arcade
- The Tyson Zone
- Uncanny Family Resemblance
None have anything to do with his career, but are flattering. It comes off like Tropers are just trying not to mention the accusations made against him.
I'm not entirely familiar with what is and isn't allowed on YMMV pages (especially since most of the ones I visit are of pro wrestlers and the lines between the person and the character are a bit more complicated due to the fact that wrestlers essentially live their characters) but in my opinion, trying to pretend these controversies didn't exist is more insulting to Michael and his legacy than acknowledging them. Other Tropers will probably disagree, but as long as there's no Flame Bait or edit warring going on, I believe the controversies should be acknowledged.
Ultimately, that's up to the moderators though.
King of New Jack Swing
Concerning the HI Story page: Should we also include tropes applying to the original tracks from the Blood On the Dancefloor remix album, considering it wouldn't make sense to make a separate page for an expansion album that only has five or six new tracks.
New Jack Swing musician and Afro Thunder fan from Canada who makes decent edits once in a while.
A Man Is Not A Virgin is not supposed to have real life examples. I realize that it's a lot to get rid of, but shouldn't that whole chunk of info go? In fact, it seems much of the page has been derailed by justifying edits and info with a similar pro-Jackson slant (i.e., the discussion of the child molestation allegations in the main description). Perhaps it's time to bring in the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment and acknowledge that there are aspects of his life that aren't exactly cut and dried?
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Honestly, the vast majority of this page needs to be pruned. It's troping a real life person. We're supposed to be troping his works, not him.
I'm going to go through here with a chainsaw.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Well, I've been pruning out the No Real Life Examples tropes. As well, can the Bunny-Ears Lawyer and Friendly Rivalry stuff be pruned too? (It doesn't help their cases that much of it isn't sourced, i.e. the claims about his I.Q. and all.)
Pulled a few more.
Pretty sure Bunny-Ears Lawyer can go, but I'm not sure about the Friendly Rivalry, though.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Friendly Rivalry can stay — I just don't think it needs so many bullet points/examples. Same with Bunny-Ears Lawyer, especially since so much of it is unsourced.
Also, shouldn't the main description be severely pruned? The slanted, pro-Jackson bias isn't appropriate and it's so long — perhaps it would be better to trim his biography to a summary with a warning about the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment and Internet Backdraft?
I cut most of Bunny-Ears Lawyer a few days ago, but I see it's been reinstated. I don't want an Edit War, so what's the best course of action?
Is it the same editor who added the example in the first place?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Looks to be the case, an editor named "aprillis". Correct me if I'm wrong!
King of New Jack Swing
What happened to the YMMV page? I get he's a massive base breaker, but last I checked, it wasn't that bad.
New Jack Swing musician and Afro Thunder fan from Canada who makes decent edits once in a while. Hide / Show Replies
If it got cut, presumably it was because people don't get YMMV pages. That said, he can have one if it's actually about his music and not just talking about his personal life.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Excluding a few wrestling pages, there's more than a few real life examples on TV Tropes with YMMV pages that don't focus on their work. That's really the only reason I find it strange.
New Jack Swing musician and Afro Thunder fan from Canada who makes decent edits once in a while.
Yeah, because these pages haven't been cut yet.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
- Bunny Trope: During the Speed Demon segment in Moonwalker, he puts on a rabbit suit to escape his fans and later, that suit becomes sentient and he dances with it. It later turns into a mountain.
Bunny Tropes is an index, not a trope. This use also does not appear to clearly match any one of the currently Bunny Tropes. Moving to the discussion.
any arguments against merging the "miscellaneous tropes" section into the Trivia tab? they seem to be the same thing, really: tropes about Jackson in real life. if anyone doesn't object within a day or two i'll go ahead and do it.