Discussion MediaNotes / HugoAward

Generally, works cannot win more than once, and the most blatant exception are ongoing series. I'm thinking about sorting these and Artists by category instead.

I think that it is a very good idea to organise the page in the way that you suggest.

I'd prefer to keep it as it is. I'd say nominees deserve to be listed alongside winners, and sorting by medium helps with finding particular works. Keep in mind that this is functionally an index linking to the work pages for those with an interest in them. That having been said, works without pages on TV Tropes could certainly be added.

Organized the way it is, alphabetical by our mediums, means it's impossible to determine if a given year has all of it's entries. A given year might have up to three or four literature entries, while another might have zero, but a visitor to this site can't tell.

Indexed by medium means that the index randomly sends you from 1977 to 2011, and back to 1957, rather than progressing in the same order as the awards were given.

Also, I'm finding dozens of Creators/works that have pages and should be on this list, but because this page is organized based on how we categorize pages instead of how the Hugo Committee is organized, nobody knew to include them. Sorting by our mediums rather than by year handicaps our ability to verify works that are included and does not help in finding works.

Is it possible to make it so that people can sort either by year, category or medium? I personally find going through year-by-year to be a pain in the arse, and it would kill my interest in maintaining the page. (Maybe allowing the wiki to be sorted in different orders according to one's preference could be a project, but I lack the knowledge to do it)

Allowing this page to be sorted in different orders according to one's preference might be possible in the 2.0 Database revision, but not currently.

Also, why would "add one/two new folders when nominations are announced" begin to "kill [your] interest in maintaining the page"? Why does conforming to their organization style feel oppressive?

Hard to put it into words. Maybe because it would feel like the work I put into organising the page in a way I like was a massive waste of time? I suppose I could accept sorting works by Category > Medium > Series > Year, but I don't feel I should be beholden to the World Science Fiction Society's format.

BTW, sorry if I come off as irritable. I've been feeling pretty unhappy with life in general right now, so this is probably not the best time for me to be discussing this.

[quote] I don't feel [this wiki] should be beholden to the World Science Fiction Society's format.[/quote]

Beholden means an obligation, and we ARE obligated to convey the information from the WSFS accurately, rather than misleading our audience. I would be amenable to organizing by Category > Year instead of Year > Category, but dividing the works by OUR medium categories misrepresents the way that the award is given. In addition to being dishonest, organizing by our mediums has demonstratively allowed pages for the winners/nominees to be neglected and causes the index to fluctuate wildly between works, such as going from 1977 to 2011, and back to 1957 inconsistently across mediums even within the same medium categorization.

The only advantage suggested to retaining the current organization is inertia.

First, I'm not that active on TV Tropes anymore, but crazysamaritan asked for my input, so here are my thoughts.

The current format suffer from being rather unwieldy as presented. The media categories we use are rather suited for presenting trope examples, and the Hugos are heavily skewed towards literature, and divide media in other ways. It's also not readily apparent which works won in a year, and the nominated works are split up and presented in different spots on the page.

Both the other wiki's way of breaking down the Hugo awards per award and then sort per year, or following the chronological version used by the WSFS would IMO be superior and easier to use.

At this point, I am about halfway done with the new layout. It is about twice as long as the current page and I've found the following winners that weren't indexed on the current page; Analog, Philip José Farmer, Robert Silverberg, Isaac Asimov, Frank Frazetta, Alexei Panshin, CBS, Harlan Ellison, "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas", Sleeper, Ben Bova, Home Is the Hangman, "A Boy and His Dog", James E. Gunn, Phil Foglio, George Lucas, and The Fountains of Paradise. That's not to speak of nominations and "not first place" winners found this way. Hopefully the more recent awards will have been better shepherded than the older awards were.