Discussion Manga / Bokurano

I just found the source of that supposed "alternate opening":

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm681308

(mirrored here ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5--i4pX4Jzg ), if you don't have a Nico Nico Douga account)

It's a "ballad" version of the opening, sung by an _amateur_ called "Zebra". Once again, nothing official, contrarily to what the livejournal above claims...

So... I kept checking that livejournal and found this:

http://taka-waku.livejournal.com/8361.html

No reason to mince words at this point: as I suspected, this isn't even a translated fan-fiction, but just a complete fabrication. A hoax. The "translator" probably saw on Wikipedia that there was a "crossed interview" with the two authors in one of the novels (there is, indeed... but it's nothing like that) and decided to make one up in order to make the whole thing more believable.

Among the comments, one "uninstall_earth" claims to own the novels and makes comments about the translation choices, once in a while... That's most probably part of the hoax as well.

And I've seen in the Just Bugs Me section that the "translator" attempted to edit That Other Wiki's article so that it would fall in line with her fanfic... That's nice. And I wouldn't be surprised if she was contributing here as well...

Hi, this is the uninstall_earth you're talking about. I don't have an account here so this will have to do.

I'm not sure what you mean by hoax. My name is Andrew, and I am friends with three people named Amanda, Reza, and Elaine who have all read the same version of the novel series that I own. I believe one of them does not own the series and just reads along with us on skype, but Amanda and I both bought it at the same website.

Like I said, I don't know what you mean by hoax. But you can feel free to contact me any time. On LJ, I can be reached by messaging bee43, and on AIM I can be reached at Andrewlucasky.

(Also, as far as I'm sure, the translator herself doesn't write here. If you don't believe me, I can ask the other people I mentioned to you to leave comments here. We all live in different states, in some cases different countries, so our I Ps will validate that.)

I think it's pretty clear what I mean by "hoax". Those supposed "translations" on that livejournal aren't translations of the novels at all. I don't want to be too confrontational about this, but there aren't many possibilities, here: either you're lying, or you've been lied to.

Out of curiosity, where did you buy your novels (if you purchased them, that is)? I know you're not trying to be confrontational, neither am I. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of whatever's going on.

Kinokuniya and Amazon Japan (some volumes were out of stock on one site when I tried to order the whole series, so I had to look on the other one).

Out of curiosity as well... In your comment on this page:

http://taka-waku.livejournal.com/7876.html

... you say "I can see places where you changed the word used to keep the meaning in tact, too. For example, changing tsukuru/つくる ("to form") into "to pool" when Chizu starts crying." And I would very much like to see that in context. Could you take a picture of that page? Or at least quote a couple of sentences (in the original Japanese, naturally) and tell me where this is supposed to be in the novels (volume and page number)?

Again, I'm trying not to be too confrontational about this, but...

Thanks for the response. Now that this has all popped up, I want to see if I can get a hold of the official books and see what's what.

As for the context, I'd be happy to help. I'm afraid I don't know how to get pictures on my computer, so I'm going to opt for the second solution you provided.

What I was referring to is in (my) volume three, the second chapter of that volume. This page is 108.

I can't get those triangular brackets to form with my keyboard, for some reason, so I'll just use quotation marks.

—-

涙わ目に作られた. 顔涙包ま. 不可能. 彼女わ泣いてしまいましたから? 思い出せない.

"あたしの所為です... あたしの所為... あたしの所為..."

チズわ震えるはじめた.

モジわ咳はじめた.

Okay, I'll be blunt: that's gibberish. It looks like something a student with barely a few weeks of Japanese lessons behind him would come up with (and even then... a few weeks of Japanese lessons should actually be more than enough to know that the particle "wa" is written as "は" (the kana "ha"), not "わ" (the kana "wa")).

There's simply no way you're actually holding a Japanese novel, here. Sorry.

Anyway, page 108 of the actual volume 3 is toward the end of the 8th chapter of the series (titled "Kodama"), the first chapter of that particular volume. Chizu and Moji aren't even mentioned on that page (Chizu has a very good reason not to be there, as she died back in volume 2, on page 240).

Here's the actual page 108 from volume 3:

遊園地って、だって、たしかに、避難先に指定されていたけど、ちょうど、あの人型の怪獣の目の前じゃないか。いま、一番危険な場所だ。

街の広報車のスピーカーがハウリングしそうな甲高い音で、この地域の新たな避難先を指示している。

幸い、二体の怪獣はまだ動かない。

だけど、いつ、動き出すかわからない。

そして、動き出したら最後だ。

フラッシュバックする、これまでの怪獣災害の光景。怪獣に踏み潰されて、ただの平坦な空き地になってしまったビル街。両親の名を叫びながら、泣き叫ぶ被災者。あんなことが、あの遊園地の周りで起こったら、サンタとヨシはどうなる？

二度、つばを飲み込んだ。

それが覚悟を決めるのに要した時間だ。

「フタバ……おまえは先に逃げろ」

「に、兄ちゃんは……？」

「サンタとヨシを、探してくる」

「嫌！」

「フタバ！」

No further reply, and the fanfic disappeared. 'Figures.

Anyway, I see some tropers have fixed some mistakes I made while trying to remove the references to this fanfic. Thank you all. I thought I had been more careful than that. My apologies.

Sheesh. No need to apologize. Thank you for outing this as a hoax.

Ah, well, I guess I feel a bit bad about making a mess with my very first edit on this site (even if I was trying to clean up a mess)...

Anyway, I looked around a little bit, and it would seem our "uninstall_earth" friend was just one of many sockpuppets of the supposed "translator"... It's just sad, really.

The same "translator" also worked on the so-called "side story" of Bokurano (really a compilation of gags penned by Kitô and his assistants that was released with the limited edition of the 11th and last volume of the manga)...

http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=207783

... and unsurprisingly, the "translation" is just guesswork. Absolutely not an actual translation at all.

'Just wanted to let you guys know, just in case. It begins with Anko yelling "we have to do this again?!" (whereas the original text was "せまっ", i.e. Anko complaining about the size of the room they're all in, and Moji (or is it Machi? hard to tell) replying "そのうちひろくなるから大丈夫" / "don't worry, we'll have more space soon enough"... an illustration from back when only four pilots had died yet, and indeed, there were plenty more to go). I don't know if there's a legit translation floating around.

EDIT:

And she (?) also "translated" the epilogue at the end of Kitô's artbook:

http://community.livejournal.com/bokurano_ooc/24969.html

Once again, not an actual translation, just guesswork. Sheesh.

Oh, man... that is bad. ~.~ It would be nice if someone out there could do proper translations for all this stuff, as I'd like to know what really happened in the novels, as well as what was actually said in the gag collection and epilogue.

I won't translate the whole thing (I'm not a native English speaker, and I wouldn't want to support "scanlations" anyway), but I could answer some questions, give you a quick summary of what actually goes on in the novels, stuff like that, if you want?

As for the epilogue... Well, it's just four sentences, so... Literally, the subtitle is "the one who waits, one year later" (there's got to be a better way to put that). Machi (the "other one") notes that Tate appears to be quite busy, once again. Tate replies that it's all right, as he can do his work anywhere. And on the last page, when Tate sees Sasami's silhouette, he says "welcome back". That's it.

Summaries would be fine, thanks. :3

OK, so... Bokura no Alternative...

Officially, it's supposed to take place in the same "multiverse" as the manga, but on another Earth. In the facts... it doesn't quite work (I'll explain below).

The basic premise is pretty much the same, but some of the protagonists and their circumstances are different. The first pilot is also a teacher from another world, but he doesn't call himself "Kokopelli", and doesn't look like the manga's Kokopelli either. The novel version of Koyemshi has a different design (and a different personality, really) and isn't the only character supporting the pilots: there's a mysterious goth-loli called "Maya" (nickname for "Makishima Mayako").

As for the kids themselves... There are some original characters: Kurasaka Kozue (a girl in a wheelchair) and Ichinose Maria (whose father is in the US navy). Then, there's Mako... but I'll get to that below. Moji isn't a pilot, but his friend Tsubasa is. Daichi briefly shows up along with his siblings, but isn't a pilot. Maki appears as an enemy pilot. No Machi.

Another difference is that Zearth and the other robots are called "Tumi-kor-ot" by the army. It's an Ainu word meaning something like "battle coffins"... but mostly a reference to one of Kitô's previous titles. Zearth itself is codenamed "Am-us-pe" ("crab" in Ainu).

A brief summary of how it goes down...

Kozue is the first pilot (after the unnamed teacher). Amusingly, the first fight takes place in another world, which leads the kids to believe the fight wasn't real (except Kozue did die, pretty much like Waku did in the manga).

Kako is next and is quite enthusiastic at first... but things soon take an ugly turn, and he's told what happens to the pilot after his victory. He doesn't take it all that well.

Tsubasa is next. Thing is, Moji kills Nagi. Sure, Maya has her part of responsibility in the whole affair, but Moji isn't a very nice guy, in this scenario. Kirie lies that Nagi is still alive, and Tsubasa wins her fight. Then, she gets to kiss Nagi's corpse before dying herself. Yay.

Then, it's Waku's turn. It's pretty much the opposite of Kako's case, as he does know what's up, this time around, and he doesn't feel all that good about it. Chizu tries to cheer him up in her own way (i.e. by having sex with him), but Waku was in love with Kozue and that doesn't quite work. And then, he sees that the enemy pilot looks very much like Kozue (that's when the kids understand they've been fighting parallel worlds). Waku really doesn't want to fight, so Chizu shoots him.

... aaaand like in the manga, it's now Chizu's turn... aaaand like in the manga, she's out for revenge. Except she doesn't notice her sister until it's too late. And she then kills herself.

... so she gets replaced by the next pilot: her unborn child. It actually finishes the enemy robot off. No, really.

Kirie's turn. His cousin died during Kako's fight, but he decides to fight so that Hatagai would be judged for what he did to Chizu.

Kodama is next... and he's actually a decent guy, this time around. What he went through so far (especially during Chizu's fight) changed him quite a bit. He manages to win the fight without getting Daichi and his siblings (who happened to be in the area) killed. Then again, that fight took place in another world, so Daichi and his siblings do die anyway. Ha!

Mako is the next pilot. As it turns out, she's actually Nakama. Except her mother died and she was adopted by the Ano family (instead of Maki). Hence, she's "Ano Mako", nicknamed "Mako". Nakama, as raised by Maki's otaku dad.

Anko's turn. Not much to say here either, really. Her opponent uses some seriously disgusting methods to break her spirit though.

Then, it's Komo's turn. Or is it? As the fight ends, Kana confesses she was the pilot and she asked Komo to pretend the whole time. Like in the manga, Kana had secretly became a Zearth pilot and didn't want the others to know.

Then, it's really Komo's turn. Her opponent from another Earth is Maki, the last pilot of her world (which is quite the gloomy world, in fact). Maki recognizes Komo (who was her friend in her world) and gives up the fight. She's there for the birth of Mako's brother, and dies to protect his world (she's shot by Komo).

Maria is next, and her story shows how the situation between Japan and the United States worsened quite a bit over the course of the story. Maria lives just long enough to see her parents together. She wins her fight, but their world is pretty much doomed by nuclear strikes and a deadly virus. Lovely.

Kanji's fight is an odd one, as he ends up in some kind of "dream world" where a few years have passed and everybody is alive and well. His friends tell him that he's the one who's been having a weird dream, but he notices some inconsistencies around him and finally decides to get back to reality.

The second-to-last pilot is... Well, it's complicated. Moji realizes that he's been manipulated all along by Maya (who was responsible for a lot of bad, bad things) and, with Koyemshi's help, manages to trick her into becoming the next pilot. Maya is revealed to be another world's Tanaka Miku. A seriously crazed Tanaka Miku. She's seen many, many "games" already (most of them as a Koyemshi, which is why she doesn't appear to have aged much) and has been trying for quite a long time now to get the game's instigators' attention... by winning all her fights but leaving the victorious Earths devoid of life. ... It's a long story.

And then, there's the epilogue. Ushiro gets to introduce another world to the "game". As their own world is pretty much screwed, Ushiro and co. use Zearth to save as many people as possible by sending them in the next world (some, like Moji, stay behind). They explain everything right away to the people of this new Earth, who accept them as refugees.

Like I said earlier, it doesn't quite work, as the very last episode of the manga (which was published long after the end of the novel series) says that you can't use Zearth like the characters of the novels do right at the end of the series. You don't get to make a whole bunch of trips to save as many people as possible by sending them in the next world. Whoops!

All in all, there are some nice (and devious) ideas, but I wished there were less "doppelgänger shenanigans"... The manga managed to mostly avoid that (IMHO) cheap device (there was that oh-so-convenient thing about Machi and her brother ending up in a world where their family (sans brother) just happens to exist as well), and I think the author of the novels went to that particular well a bit too often.

EDIT: Aaaand the hoax goes on:

http://community.livejournal.com/bokurano_ooc/59183.html

That's just lovely.

I don't know how Ohki goes from writing something like this to co-authoring Boku Alt.

It's the other way around, actually, but I guess you'd need 1337 Japanese skills to read the dates. And of course, the story isn't about a high school being stuck in space at all, but it's not like she'd know that, as all she's actually read is the English subtitle. Urgh.

Not the first time she made some BS up about another novel by the same author either, but I guess it never gets old:

http://community.livejournal.com/bokurano_ooc/35401.html

Mohiro Kitoh and Renji Ohki are working on another book together.

The book was released back in June 2009, so they're pretty much done working on it, really, but once again, dates are hard.

According to the title, this one's called "The Deduction Process."

That's an interesting translation of "Yûsha to Tantei no Game", considering "yûsha" = "hero" (lit. "brave person"), "tantei" = "detective" and "game" = ... well, "game". But OK, sure, why not.

Or, if I had to make a more idiomatic translation, I would call it "Guesswork."

"Guesswork"? Gee, I wonder where she got that idea.

Sorry, that kind of stuff just makes me mad... -__-;

Please stop posting lies. There are many people who have read Bokurano Alternative and are contributing to this translation. I'm sorry, but you're completely wrong.

Many of the people who read the novel met after reading it, so it is not some kind of conspiracy or hoax. She's not fake translating or doing fanfiction. When there are so many people who have read the novel and can provide the same story, it's seriously suspect that only one person is stepping up and saying that's all not true.

You are the one who is lying. Please stop.

There are many people who have read Bokurano Alternative and are contributing to this translation.

That's BS.

Anybody with even basic notions of Japanese could immediately tell that the supposed excerpt of the novel that was quoted by uninstall_earth above was gibberish, whereas the one I quoted is actual, genuine Japanese.

Anybody with even basic notions of Japanese could immediately tell that Amanda's supposed "translation" of the epilogue at the end of the recent artbook is a complete fabrication.

Anybody with even basic notions of Japanese could immediately tell that the stuff she said about Ôki Renji's other novels is completely wrong, as I said above.

(oh, I see she edited her initial post... but Google remembers... "The best part is probably when a boy and his girlfriend decide they need to colonize their school, now that their high school is somehow stuck in space, so they have to have babies, but before they have sex the guy says, "Wait, I don't have a condom."" how hilarious! not something you'll ever find in the novel at all, but hi-la-rious all the same!)

Etc.

I could spend hours listing all the nonsense I've seen her spout again and again.

When there are so many people who have read the novel and can provide the same story

... it just means they're all in on it, sadly enough. If they aren't the same person in the first place, that is.

Just try and explain how the text on page 4 of the epilogue◊ translates to "A planet on which children are children."

Here's the Japanese line (you can compare with the actual page): "僕の仕事はどこでもできるからね。"

"僕" / "boku" means "I", "me". "仕事" / "shigoto" means "work", "job". Hence "僕の仕事" / "boku no shigoto" is "my work". Followed by the particle "は" / "wa", which means "my work" (Tate's work, here) is what the sentence will be about.

Then, "どこでも" / "dokodemo", which means "anywhere". "できる" / "dekiru": "to be able to". "から" / "Kara" is pretty much the Japanese "because", and "ね" / "ne" is, as Wikipedia puts it, a particle that "asks or shows agreement and reflection at phrase-end".

The whole thing amounts to "because my work can be done anywhere", the implication being "it's all right, because my work can be done anywhere" (as a reply to Machi commenting on how he looks quite busy, on the previous page).

You can also try and copy/paste the sentence in Google Translate, if you want.

You'll get "I get to work from anywhere."

You can try that with Babel Fish, too.

The result: "Because my work is possible anywhere, don't you think?."

Certainly doesn't sound like "A planet on which children are children", does it? But I guess that can't be helped, considering the original sentence doesn't even contain words like "planet" or "children" in the first place! I would love to see Amanda try and explain how she came up with that "translation" of hers.

And that's just one example, one sentence. I could do that for the whole thing, as well as for that compilation of parodies that was included with the limited edition of volume 11.

EDIT:

I see you're spreading the "good" word:

http://community.livejournal.com/mohirokitoh

"There is a person who is editing wikipedia and posting on TV Tropes saying that the translation of the Bokurano Alternative novel is a lie, posting a fake story that just takes the illustrations — the illustrations that, save for a few, have NOTHING to do with the actual story —"

The illustrations of the novel series all have everything to do with the actual story. But little to do with your fanfiction, naturally.

Enough with your disinformation... I've provided a bunch of evidence already and I can go on like that, if need be. Where's your evidence?

How about you take some pictures of the novels and show us, for example, the part uninstall_earth was referring to above?

How about you explain how one manages to translate "僕の仕事はどこでもできるからね。" (from the epilogue) into "A planet on which children are children"?

Or Anko's "せまっ" (from the parody booklet) into "we have to do this again?!", for that matter?

And why "we have to do this again?!", anyway? That picture was drawn years ago, long before the end of the series, when only four pilots had died yet, as can be seen from the four pictures with black frames that are hanging on the wall, and the caption that flatly says as much in the bottom left corner. 'Looks like our "translator" didn't/couldn't see that and assumed it was a recent illustration, done after the manga had ended...

In fact, it would seem all the "translator" managed to read in that parody booklet was Latin alphabet letters and Arabic numerals...

'Gotta love how Sasami's "Fしか読んでねえじゃねえか。A先生もおもしろいんだよ。読もうよ。" became "Miss Ano, the truth is, I always had an "F" in art class, too. (That's alright -- the mangaka never had an "A" in art class.)". Besides the fact grades such as "A" or "F" aren't even used in Japan (whoops!), the joke was entirely different. Sasami notes that Maki appears to know a lot about old manga series. She replies that her father has a lot of those, and she's read all of Fujiko Fujio's stuff. Upon hearing this, Sasami can't resist quoting a famous line from Matarô ga Kuru!!... but Maki's all "OK, what was that?" It turns out Maki's only read Fujimoto (also known as "F")'s stuff, whereas Sasami apparently is more of a fan of Abiko ("A"), the other member of the mangaka duo.

'Gotta love how Maki's "印刷所の締め切りは10時ジャストだから、残り8時間みんながんばって。" became "One volume alone will sell for 10 thousand yen. On the other hand, we'll only sell Kako's for 8." (complete with a translation note, so it would look more authentic!). In the original Japanese, Maki and the others are working on a dôjinshi they intend to sell at the Comiket, and she says the print shop's deadline is 10 o'clock sharp, so they have 8 hours left to complete their work.

Then again, the "translator" did miss some Arabic numerals... Apparently, "5年後？" means "is this true?" I would have said it meant "5 years later?", but what do I know?

And I could go on and on like that, as every single line of this supposed "translation" is nothing more than guesswork.

Your turn. I can't wait to see what kind of evidence you'll provide.

Look, I give up. The translator? She doesn't like confrontation. At all. She would not do anything like what you're implying maliciously and any further arguing I do would just continue to drag her name through the mud. I don't physically own the novels. Maybe what you're saying about some of this is true. But stop saying the novel translation is a fanfiction.

I back out and concede. I don't believe that the translation you summarized is the real one, but whatever. Stop creeping on our forum and stop following us around.

"The translator? She doesn't like confrontation. At all."

'Figures. It's not like she'd have anything to argue back anyway.

As for me, I don't like liars who post fake translations and mislead a whole bunch of people. At all. I guess we all have our problems.

"She would not do anything like what you're implying maliciously"

I'd imagine she's doing it for the attention. Not that it matters: she should just stop lying to Bokura no fans.

"and any further arguing I do would just continue to drag her name through the mud."

Well, she only has herself to blame for that, really. It's not like she had to lie for months about all that. And I think people deserve to know they're being lied to.

"I don't physically own the novels. Maybe what you're saying about some of this is true."

It all is. And you do have the parody booklet and the epilogue, I believe, right? So you can check everything I said above...

"But stop saying the novel translation is a fanfiction."

I won't, because it is. You stop saying it's an actual translation. Or prove it is. But that won't happen, huh?

"I don't believe that the translation you summarized is the real one, but whatever."

Nice to see you don't really care what's true and what isn't.

"Stop creeping on our forum and stop following us around."

Stop spreading your fake translations around.

^ Thanks Erigu. As a non-Japanese speaker I find the implications of this whole episode DEEPLY disturbing.

Thank you.

I don't know if this is the right thread but if you're still interested in a translation for Bokurano Alternative I'm currently pretty busy translating it. You can find it on my homepage: www.bokuranofanpage.wordpress.com and on Baka-Tsuki: https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Bokurano_Alternative I've already finished the Prologue, Chapter 1 (50%), Chapter 2, Chapter 5. Chapter 1 will be fully translated in late October, since I have my final exams pretty soon. Btw. Taka-Waku's fanfiction is awesome! Sadly I only could've read until Kirie.. I'd love to read more. :/

Okay, so... this is probably long past the point of anyone really caring, but does anyone still have any interest in completing the translation of Bokurano Alternative? I read the one on https://bokuranofanpage.wordpress.com/, but it only goes up to Chapter 9, and it hasn't been updated since the end of 2017. I also checked the Baka-Tsuki link (https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Bokurano_Alternative), but the page was deleted, apparently due to the server moving to Europe. Based on what I've heard about the later chapters in this very discussion, I'm honestly really interested in seeing how the story turns out within the light novel series itself (and since it has yet to be officially translated, I currently have no other options to do so). Please let me know what you think.

I'd rather discuss the canon as well, believe me.

For starters... should the novels be considered canonical at all, actually? ^_^;

Like I said above, I probably wouldn't call them canonical, personally, even if they were advertised as being set in "just another world". Also, the end of the novels implies that all this happens before the manga, and that the "novel Zearth" probably is the same Zearth from the manga. But aside from the fact we've seen that Zearth took another form in the next world, in the last episode of the manga (arguably written long after the novels ended), and that thing about saving as many survivors as possible with Zearth, the novels really make it look like the main characters exist in every world out there (or in most of the worlds Maya and Koyemshi have seen, anyway), and I think that's... well, a bit on the cheap side.

As for Hatagai, I'd rather believe he was killed before the end of the series. Moji (who decided to stay behind) seems to think the world isn't necessarily 100% doomed yet. In fact, they've received a transmission form New York, which means some might actually be immune to that virus from another world. Anyway, considering how crappy the situation of those survivors is already, I wouldn't want them to have to deal with a Hatagai on top of that! ^__^;;

About Anko's fight (in the novels)... Well, it's an "away fight", and the first thing she notices is that, separating her from her opponent (called "the Lighthouse"... because it looks like a lighthouse), there's some kind of huuuuuge red carpet on the ground, and lots of big messages in white letters and various languages (including some Anko has never seen before) that are all saying the same kind of stuff, i.e. "please don't kill us!", "we want to live!", "spare our children!", etc. What a bunch of asshats. Just when the kids think that it's a bit strange that the people of that world would go through all that trouble instead of taking their chance with their military or something like that... they realize the "carpet" is actually made of living people dressed in red (something Anko can confirm rather easily by looking for the "spots of light"... you know, one of Zearth's powers). They're the ones forming those white messages on the ground. Some of them are in chains, some carry guns. There are children, old people, etc. Yay. They even send some radio messages, and you can imagine how Anko loves being told by a very young child "my mother and my little sister are down there, please don't kill them!" In the end, Anko walks up to the enemy robot while explaining herself and apologizing (courtesy of her father's TV crew who's in the cockpit... the whole message would be a bit long to recap). Once she's reached the robot (that did try to attack and defend itself), she takes care of it rather quickly. Before dying, she just has time to see some of the lights form a little message: "Good luck, Zearth." (she had told them how their robot was called during her speech... and yes, she had even spelled the name out for them, conveniently enough)

Hey, I know that this is supposed to be a rant on the people who posted the faux translation on livejournal, but it seems like you have a good grasp of the novel and are quite able to translate it. What you oughta do is show the translators at livejournal how wrong they are by posting the real translation online.

That would be awesome if you could.

By the way, I think that it sucks that they blocked it off to all nonmembers of livejournal, especially since I can't afford to buy an account. I mean, c'mon. I know that it's just an elaborate fan fiction, but at least it's not too bad of a fan fiction. I just find it cool that there are other people who actually enjoy the series, but they have to be stuck up and block off fellow fans.

Those pricks.....

Nah, English isn't my first language, so I'm not qualified...

Besides, I don't need to show those "translators" how wrong they are: they already know that. As for showing other people... well, I believe I did that already.

.............crap...........

It's impossible to figure out that you're not a native speaker via what you've posted so far. You're easily qualified to translate, as you've proven throughout this entire page. Whether you want to is another matter though, and that much is up to you.

Just out of interest, how much do the ebooks from Papy cost? Is it too much to consider buying one to close the case once and for all? (Even so, I imagine Papy would 'suddenly stop selling the online version, and start giving out the hardcover')

It's a shame when stuff like this happens. If they had simply labelled their story as a fanfic, it would get the respect it deserves. Now it's just being dragged through the mud. If it's a good fanfiction, then the community would praise it, and no one would have a problem with it.

So far Erigu has provided sources and explanations of everything. He's been incredibly transparent. The LJ group hasn't fought back particularly well, resorting to Ad Hominems and questioning Erigu's conduct, without actually showing any proof.

To put it a different way, I (or your average troper) could present the same arguments the LJ community have, while only someone with an elaborate understanding of Japanese could present the proof Erigu has brought to the table. Therefore we must accept that Erigu has the ability to translate Japanese, while all the evidence points towards the translators having the same knowledge of the language as anyone else.

On a different note, is the novel different enough that there should be a separate page for it? It is a spinoff, after all.

It's impossible to figure out that you're not a native speaker via what you've posted so far. You're easily qualified to translate, as you've proven throughout this entire page.

Thank you, but really, I'm not. Maybe it doesn't show all that much, but I can't express myself nearly as well as I wished, and those are my own words. So a series of novels, really... Plus, I work as a translator (from Japanese to my first language), so I guess I have high standards when it comes to translation. My professional ethics would probably beat me to a pulp if I tried that one! ^_^;

Maybe you could ask the Baka-Tsuki guys or something like that though?

how much do the ebooks from Papy cost? Is it too much to consider buying one to close the case once and for all?

The site's sections for volumes 1 and 2 quote the first pages of the books and, naturally, they're the same as my hard copies and have absolutely nothing to do with Amanda's "translation"... So I wouldn't say it's worth the trouble.

And I would expect some amount of trouble indeed as you need a Japanese credit card to use the site in the first place (so Amanda and her friends all have Japanese credit cards, apparently!).

But to answer your question: about 500 yen per volume.

On a different note, is the novel different enough that there should be a separate page for it? It is a spinoff, after all.

Then again, the TV series itself, in its second half...

I don't know if this is the right thread but if you're still interested in a translation for Bokurano Alternative I'm currently pretty busy translating it.

You can find it on my homepage: www.bokuranofanpage.wordpress.com

and on Baka-Tsuki: https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Bokurano_Alternative

I've already finished the Prologue, Chapter 1 (50%), Chapter 2, Chapter 5. Chapter 1 will be fully translated in late October, since I have my final exams pretty soon.

Btw. Taka-Waku's fanfiction is awesome! Sadly I only could've read until Kirie.. I'd love to read more. :/

I think it's more about the level of depressing-ness. Because it's popular, it's a good benchmark if someone wants to say "This is a depressing anime".

But I honestly don't know enough about this series to make an informed decision. I deleted the line. If someone knows enough about both series, then they can put it back.

Page 18 Chapter 1: The Teacher

Waku should be able to recall/remember those words.

The words that she first spoke.

13 first year middle schoolers and one fourth grade elementary student. All fourteen of them had come to this island to participate in the [Nature Study Exchange School]. We had already got bored of exploring/touring the island, our summer was more like going to a seaside school than vacation.

The ferry departs from the mainland and heads south for two days to arrive here.

As an island surround by the sea and possessing rich/abundant nature and as a place where we would make our memories, there was nothing to really complain about.

In any case, even though I said that earlier, the island really wasn’t that big.

By the time we approached the end of our second week, we had seen all the sights, gone whale watching and ate extremely well. So we came up with a reckless/inspired plan.

That day, in the name of ‘Nature Observation’, we went to the beach to have some fun in the water.

Though we thought of ourselves as old enough/adults, I guess there was plenty of kid left in all fourteen middle schoolers still.

Anyone who had to take time to look after a bunch of rambunctious kids for two weeks would start getting tired of it.

Wait one second. You say "but beyond that I will not go any further since it's already been licensed." By this, are you referring to the VIZ manga, or do you mean that there are plans for an official English translation of the light novel?

Are you kidding me? Why? Please explain.

I want explanation as well.

Not that I know which one is liar, nor did I eve seen the novel. But so far, he's one who post information while other just scream "He's liar" without anything to support the claim.

Ok, Erigu maybe a little harsh for calling other sockpuppeteer. But if what he said is true, he shouldn't deserve that banned (and we definity don't want a restorations to the article).

If you found that he's one who's lying, please explain to us, the fellow editors, why he must be banned instead of just ban him and left us in dark.

What Kuruni said. Also, I'm more inclined to believe Erigu because what he's said is consistent with novel information I've seen on other sites; for example, I've been to the Japanese Wikipaedia article for the series, and even though my Japanese-reading ability is absolutely atrocious, even I could spot info that totally contradicted the fanfic. (To start with, IIRC, J-Wiki says Kozue is in her first year of middle school, not a 19-year-old secretary like in the fic.)

Yeah, he may have said some harsh things toward the end of the topic, but the whole thing had been pretty civil up until Ari accused him of lying; I don't agree with banning him, especially if these so-called "restorations" mean all those fanfic references are gonna be stuck back in to mislead people all over again. ~.~

Edit-ban under discussion here.

Unbanned.

But there's still the issue at hand...

Look, if it helps, I'll try and do everything I can to prove that the actual novels are nothing like what "Amanda" and her friends claim they are, and everything like the summary I posted above.

Something I could do is scan parts of the novels (the page mentioned above, some illustrations and key excerpts, the table of contents so you could compare it with the edits the "translator" tried to make on ThatOtherWiki (as revealed here), etc). It's not all that convenient for me as I still live in the 20th century and don't own a scanner nor a camera, but I guess I could try and find a copy shop or something in the next few days and see about that.

I could also scan some pages of the parody collection so people will be able to compare the original Japanese with "Amanda"'s fake translation I linked to above.

If you have other ideas, I'm open to suggestions.

EDIT:

I found a Japanese page listing the table of contents of the whole novel series. It's not an official page or anything, but it's a two-year-old article, for what it's worth:

http://blog.goo.ne.jp/neetpf/e/8da1b48c739769c7f0a744dce63c979c

Japanese-literate readers will find it fits with the summary of the novels I posted above, and differs from the one posted by "Amanda" on ThatOtherWiki.

holy ninja.

Can you expand on what happened in the next-to-last arc?

Maybe a word of warning is in order... Since I'll be trying to prove that the actual novels are nothing like what "Amanda" and her friends claim they are, and everything like the summary I posted above, I will have little choice but to post SPOILERS from now on. I don't think it would be all that convenient to spoiler-font it all (like I did my quick summary of the novels in the previous topic), but if that turns out to be a problem, I will naturally edit my posts accordingly.

Can you expand on what happened in the next-to-last arc?

Sure, but before I write something up (again, I'm not a native English speaker, so it's not that easy for me ^^), could you clarify whether you're referring to Maya/Miku's chapter or Kanji's one? I'm not sure if you counted the epilogue when you said "next-to-last arc"...

Thanks!

I was referring to Maya/Miku's chapter.

I still haven't gotten around to scan excerpts from the novels and the gag booklet ('still not sure how/where I'm going to do that, in fact, but I'll think of something), so I guess I'll post that summary of chapter 15 for 161.185.150.180, for the time being...

Spoiler-font after all, since this isn't exactly part of my argument against those fake "translations"...

The chapter begins in a Matsushiro-based underground shelter, with a reunion of what's left of the Japanese government. We learn that the virus brought by Maria's enemy a couple of chapters before has already decimated North America, South America and Europe, and is thought to be quickly spreading in the Middle-East and Africa. Japan is still relatively "lucky" for now... despite having had its major cities nuked to oblivion (like the rest of the world) and being home to less than 10 million survivors. News come of Kanji's victory. It looks like nobody really cares anymore (after all, they were having that reunion during the fight). Tanaka is supposed to be the next pilot (they were a few pilots short, so Seki and she volunteered, like in the manga), but there's some talk of abandoning the Tumi-kor-ot fights (after all, they're destroying other worlds for the sake of their doomed one). Sasami thinks they shouldn't give up, if only for the sake of the kids who've given their lives already.. but doesn't say anything. He's told Tanaka wishes to talk to him about an urgent matter.

Maya and Koyemshi discuss the recent events in Zearth's cockpit. They're still one pilot short, and Maya thinks she will go with Ushiro (who, like in the manga, didn't touch the plate to begin with). She needs a "broken" pilot (after all, the last pilot will have to fight for a dead world). Her first choice was Moji, but it looks like she overdid it with him (ever since he killed Nagi, Moji has been wishing for Zearth to lose, so the universe would disappear along with all traces of his sin). We get first (tiny) signs of rebellion from Koyemshi, who was apparently following orders from Maya out of loyalty for another version of Maya she had under her care on her homeworld. Maya feels this, gets a bit irritated, and takes Koyemshi's ribbon (which Koyemshi apparently treasured). She can't wait for Tanaka to fight and die, like always.

Tanaka reveals to Sasami the existence of a supplementary volume to the Hino Report: the D2 documents (her father died during the battle for the Naha base, and she found them among his personal effects). They were a plan to evacuate the whole of Japan in case the execution of the Hino Report went really, really wrong. She proposes to follow their instructions, but evacuate the whole world instead, using Zearth to send their survivors to the world where the next series of fights would take place. She explains how Maya is actually Tanaka Miku, another version of her own daughter. She may have lived for hundreds of years by acting as a Koyemshi most of the time, but right now, she's a regular human being, and she's here because the current Koyemshi brought her with "him" (the characters refer to Koyemshi as "him"... but the Koyemshi of the novels is actually a woman, as is revealed in the epilogue). So if they can get Koyemshi to agree with their plan, it should be feasible.

Moji wakes up in his room inside Zearth (that's where Maya keeps him, just in case she has some use for him). Koyemshi is there, and Moji explains that he's been having the same dream as Kanji (the previous fight, see my summary above), a dream where he never killed Nagi, and everything was going well. He wonders why Maya helped Kanji win that fight and destroy that "perfect world". It all seems contradictory to him: do Maya and Koyemshi want their world to win the fights, or lose them, in the end? Koyemshi confirms his suspicions: they want their world to win the game, but also for every single of its inhabitants to die in the process. Koyemshi has already helped Maya do that six times. And she knows Maya has been going at it for far, far longer than that. But what is there for Maya to gain by doing that? Koyemshi explains that Maya thinks the game is designed with human beings in mind (it would be a bit long to explain, and I personally think Maya fails a bit at logic anyway... but I guess the 48-hour time-limit is a bit fishy indeed: exactly two Earth days? coincidence?). By winning while eliminating all of mankind, she's ruining the game. She hopes that "God" will take notice and eventually show itself to get rid of her. Moji thinks it's ludicrous: how does she even know "God" would care? Or exists in the first place, for that matter? He learns that Maya managed to manipulate him so well because she's dealt with other versions of him before... and that there are other worlds where he killed Nagi, so there never was any point in trying to erase his sin. As they talk, Moji begins to notice that even though Koyemshi is trying to defend Maya's plans, it looks like she doesn't quite believe in them herself...

Maya is contemplating becoming a Koyemshi again for the next series of fights: the current one won't be reliable for much longer. Oh, she ponders all that while having sex with Ushiro, by the way. Is there a trope for interdimensional incest? It would seem it's not the first time a grief-striken Ushiro assaults her like that (meaning, it happened in other worlds). "It was surprising the first time", but by now, she's realized it's just as good a way as any to control him. This time, however, when she pretends to strangle him, he protests that Kanji made him promise to live. That's different. And Maya isn't pleased at all. But that's when Koyemshi appears and tells her Moji decided to become a pilot. Funny how things work out.

Moji wanted to see Tsubasa and Nagi one last time before becoming a pilot, so he, Maya and Koyemshi stand in one of those rooms inside Zearth where dead bodies are preserved. After a few moments with his friends, he touches the plate. Maya then shakes his hand: "we're officially partners in crime, now!" ... No transparent glove, no coating or anything. We're good: Moji is a pilot, now. He notices an object in the room. Maya recognizes it as all that's left of her mother's plane (from her homeworld) and angrily stops him from touching it. Moji apologizes. As they leave, Maya briefly wonders: were those corpses really this Earth's Tsubasa and Nagi? It's hard to tell, after all, and she doesn't quite remember what they did with their bodies this time around... Ah, well: if Moji said they were there, in Zearth, it must be true! Right? ... Right?

A few days later, Sasami and Tanaka ask to speak with her. Concerned they might try to kill her, she warns them that if they take even one step toward her, Koyemshi will transport them away. We learn that Tanaka's family "miraculously" survived, and Maya explains that it wasn't a miracle at all, just Koyemshi acting on her orders. She asks Tanaka if she told her husband and daughter that she became a Zearth pilot. Tanaka shakes her head. Maya obviously resents her for that, and decides to give her an idea of what would become of her daughter by recounting her own past.

This "summary" is long enough as is, so I'll skip some of it (there are lots of similarities with the manga anyway)... In her world, Tanaka sacrificed herself a bit like she did in the manga. She (Maya/Miku) had no idea what her mother was up to so, still in shock, she asked that world's version of Ushiro why she died. That world's Ushiro was pretty much like the Ushiro from the beginning of the manga, so, as you can imagine, his reply wasn't exactly the pinnacle of delicacy. Miku lost it and stabbed him with a pen. Ushiro died in atrocious pain moments later. For some reason that's not exactly clarified (that's a bit weak, really), after the second-to-last fight of their world, Miku left for the next world with the new Koyemshi. But when that new series of fight ended, she found out she had no place to come back to: her mother had been blamed for the whole thing, and her father had killed himself. So she became a Koyemshi. And she remained one instead of naming a successor once her tour of duty was over, as it's normally done. She was pretty good at her job, too: she was picking pilots her age, and that proved to be a winning strategy. She would get a bit creative, sometimes, by trying and picking her pilots so Tanaka wouldn't get involved and her double wouldn't lose her family... or by doing her best to punish her half-brother. But eventually, she came to blame whoever started that game in the first place. Hence her plan to fight "God" by ruining winning worlds.

It seems Maya just can't stop talking and laughing, until Tanaka's chair appears in the cockpit. The ejection seat of a Type 88 fighter. But that only adds to her hilarity. Good old Tanaka. Always the same seat. But Tanaka takes a step toward her. And another one. And, to Maya's surprise, Koyemshi doesn't do anything. Eventually, Tanaka comes up to her, and hits her. Again. And again. Tanaka sermonizes "her daughter", and when Maya tries to argue back, she hears a voice in her head, calling her name. Uh-oh. That's when she realizes Moji's chair isn't appearing. What's going on? Moji and Koyemshi explain how they tricked her. The plate Moji touched? A fake. Just some plastic. In fact, Koyemshi had already used that fake plate for Seki and Tanaka (she was hoping Maya wouldn't destroy that world, if Tanaka didn't become a pilot... Maya had already spared two worlds she knows of for that reason). The real plate was hidden inside Maya's keepsake, that plane debris from her homeworld. As Maya yells at Koyemshi for taking it apart, Koyemshi tells her back (I paraphrase): "Yes, I knew it was all you had left from your mother. And that ribbon you took from me and threw away? It was a gift from you, in my world. The only thing I had left from you. I bet you didn't know that." Burn, Maya!

The rest of the chapter is a lot less crucial, plot-wise, so I'll go a bit faster, if you don't mind... I mean, this is getting long. ^_^;

Sasami explains Tanaka's plan to his superiors, and the fact Koyemshi agreed to help them. It's set in motion. But they still have one fight to win before anything can be done, and Maya is set to be the pilot (yes, that was her chair). When Tanaka comes to visit her, Maya expects to be killed so a proper pilot could take her place. But that's not what Tanaka had in mind. After a mother-to-daughter talk that I wouldn't dare to summarize here, Maya agrees to fight in exchange for Tanaka promising to take care of her daughter.

With Ushiro at her side (at the time, he thinks she became a pilot because he refused), Maya prepares to engage the enemy robot... but realizes she can barely move Zearth. It would seem Zearth is only as powerful as the soul of the pilot is young. And her soul is hundreds of years old. Whoops. Even with the army's help, she merely manages to damage the enemy cockpit. The last remaining Type 88 fighter crashes into it to kill the enemy pilot. Do I need to tell you who was piloting that fighter? After all, she did promise she would protect her daughter...

Hopefully, I will have some scans of this chapter (text and illustrations) to show you soon enough...

...it might be more suitable to use P Ms for this kind of stuff, no?

There's some amusing backpedalling going on:

http://community.livejournal.com/mohirokitoh/4490.html

After further investigation, there actually appear to be two versions of the novel. The one that is being translated can be purchased through papy.co.jp, though it is very difficult to purchase (I've tried, trust me). It goes straight to your phone. The hardcopy is the version summarized at TV Tropes. So I apologize in saying that it is a lie, it is in fact not. Neither version is a fake, though, as both are purchasable.

That is, of course, BS once again.

The Bokurano ebooks that are available on papy.co.jp (indeed an ebook shop that lets you download novels to your cell phone for a fee... that happens to be something I explained to Ari myself three weeks ago, before that livejournal with the translation was locked to "non-friends", so it's nice to see her make use of that info!) are these: volume 1, volume 2, volume 3, volume 4, volume 5, and they're naturally the exact same books that I own (as hardcopies) and that could be ordered on, say, Kinokuniya: volume 1, volume 2, volume 3, volume 4, volume 5. Hell, papy.co.jp even lists the table of contents for each volume, and of course the chapters fit with my summary above, not with Amanda's fanfiction (her attempt to "correct" the table of contents on That Other Wiki).

So after that ridiculous "the illustrations have nothing to do with the story!" (which, I guess, would be the only way to explain why Kana is shown to be dead twice in those illustrations despite the fact she's supposedly "spared from her fate" according to Amanda and co), they now apparently expect people to buy the idea that they have the novels, have read them, are translating them / helping with the translation... and just now realized they had that series on their cell phones all along! I guess we should also surmise that the gibberish "Japanese" that was quoted by uninstall_earth was the result of a freakish bug. Same thing for the illustrations, I guess, since they've been talking about them despite the fact they're not included in the ebook version, as explained on papy.co.jp ("この作品は廉価版です。廉価版にイラストは収録されておりません。ご了承ください。"). Pesky bugs! They're probably behind the complete reshuffling of the story as well!

EDIT: Scans!

So.

Volume 1◊. Table of contents◊. Chapter 1: The Teacher◊. Chapter 2: Kozue◊. Chapter 3: Kako◊. Chapter 4: Tsubasa◊. Maya gives Moji some bad ideas (Japanese-literate tropers will note the reference to the plank of Carneades).◊

Volume 2◊. Table of contents◊. Chapter 5: Waku◊. Chizu tries to "cheer Waku up".◊ Chapter 6: Chizu◊. Chapter 7: Kirie◊.

Volume 3◊. Table of contents◊. Chapter 8: Kodama◊. Kodama won his fight, which is very bad news for Daichi and his siblings: Daichi ceases to exist before he can even end his sentence.◊ Chapter 9: Mako◊. Mako visits her mother's tomb with Tatara (yes, her/Nakama's client from the manga).◊ Chapter 10: Anko◊.

Volume 4◊. Table of contents◊. Chapter 11: Komo-Kana (1)◊. Kana apologizes to her brother just before dying◊. Ushiro thinks it's just a bad joke and kicks her corpse (!!), but she's really dead, as she, not Komo, was the pilot.◊ Chapter 12: Komo-Kana (2) (same illustration, so I didn't think a scan was necessary). The last pages of the chapter, right before Komo kills the enemy pilot (Maki).◊ Chapter 13: Maria◊. Kana still being dead.◊

Volume 5◊. Table of contents◊. Chapter 14: Kanji◊. Kanji's dream: featuring slightly older Kanji, Waku and Kozue (sans wheelchair).◊ This picture can't have been taken in 2026, according to (older) Maki: one inconsistency among many, in that dream.◊ Chapter 15: Miku◊. Maya muses that, if she hadn't been there for him, Ushiro might have had sex with his sister's corpse (she's still very much dead).◊ Moji becomes a pilot... ''or does he?''◊ Maya/Miku and Tanaka, during the penultimate fight.◊ Epilogue: Ushiro◊.

Ideally, I would have scanned more, but I didn't want to bother (... too much) the friend who helped me out with those. 'Should be enough to compare with my summaries above, and with Amanda's completely different list of chapters. And like I said above, Kana definitely died. She wasn't "spared from her fate". But it's amusing to see uninstall_earth's attempt at justifying the covers... And Japanese-literate tropers can also have fun comparing the first pages of chapter 1◊ to Amanda's chapter 1 (as cached by Google, as I can't be bothered to add Amanda as a "friend", really).

Bonus track: two pages about the novel series◊, from the Bokurano Official Book. Some explanations about the cast (how Nakama became Ano Mako / Mako, for example), but nothing about that supposed "other series of novels", strangely enough. You'd think they'd want to clarify things a bit regarding that: they have the exact same covers, after all! And papy.co.jp listed the wrong table of contents, too! And they also got it wrong when they quoted the first pages of volumes 1 and 2! How confusing and misleading! Amanda should really tell them about all that, so they could "correct their mistakes"...

Now, the parody booklet.

The original page◊ and Amanda's "translation"◊. I went over that one a couple of times already in previous messages.

The original "Fujiko Fujio" gag◊ and what Amanda turned it into, being only able to understand the letters "A" and "F"◊. On the opposite page, "ball wa tomodachi" / "the ball is my friend", an obvious reference to Captain Tsubasa and an elementary Japanese sentence, also proved to be far too complex for Amanda's translation skills◊.

I don't know if she missed the "5" in "5 nen go?" / "5 years later?"◊ or simply couldn't come up with a sentence with a "5" in it, but here's what she went with◊. Of course, she couldn't translate Waku's line either, so she just made something up about Chizu's story having been meant for Nakama. Because misleading people with BS "author's notes" is so much fun. Japanese-literate tropers are welcome to theorize about how she managed to come up with that◊, for the opposite page.

Of course, the whole translation is completely bogus. Those were just some examples.

Incidentally, I think it's cute how Amanda (as "takashi_waku") and Dragon Ninja Ari (as "brthrs_watchdog") criticize Viz for editing some pages of the manga in the English version. I mean, I don't like that kind of stuff either, but at least, I know why they're doing it: naked kids. Why did Amanda and Dragon Ninja Ari crop◊ a page of that booklet◊ though? 'Beats me. Amanda couldn't think of some joke to put there? They didn't like the Kodama/Komo pairing? It really is a mystery. At the end, you'll also note how "chinmari" became, once translated into English, "Oniichan!" The mystery never ends.

As for the epilogue... Well, there's not much to say. Only four sentences, after all. And none of them were correctly translated. At all.

Just in case someone decides to stealth-edit something: page 1◊ -> "Bokurano ~ One Year's Passing ~" and "One Year Later", page 3◊ -> "A face I was happy to see.", page 4◊ -> "A planet on which children are children.", page 6◊ -> "The end of the very long battle."

But she's totally translating a series of Japanese novels, you guys! And it's that other series of novels nobody's ever heard of. Naturally.

Hopefully, this will be the final nail in the coffin of those hoaxes, but if some Japanese-literate tropers want to comment on the whole affair...?

Okay, I posted on my journal but now I'm saying it here — please stop going through our personal forum to support your arguments. It's bordering on creeping and it's starting to freak us out.

Someone else has recently read the novel from papy.co.jp, but I know that since I'm providing this, you won't believe it. I don't feel like arguing anymore, I really don't. I just want to tell you to stop looking through out stuff, stop talking about us. What's the point of complaining about us talking about the new releases? We later discussed the whole thing on an AIM chat in more actual depth, we're fans of the series, we're going to talk about it. We love this series, but nothing we can say or do can prove that.

And for the record, the reason why part of that gag panel wasn't translated? My fault. I'm the one who scanned it and it took several hours. I missed the top of that page when I sent it along and was too tired to notice.

You haven't been a single bit kind, especially when talking behind closed doors via the livejournal P Ms. If you stop with your biting sarcasm and rude tone, then maybe we could have civilized discussion, but I give up trying to argue and just request you stop looking through our forums and using our every day conversations — our just playing around with each other — to justify your arguments.

I would've preferred to not get too involved in this whole argument, but... Ari: If it's upsetting you so much that people outside your circle of friends are looking at your OOC comm, then isn't friendslocking it always an option?

ETA: Just to make this somewhat relevant to Bokurano itself, I have a quick question for Erigu: Does Hatagai get any kind of punishment in the novels (even if it's just being left behind on the fucked-up Earth in the end), or does he end up being a Karma Houdini like in the manga?

Someone else has recently read the novel from papy.co.jp, but I know that since I'm providing this, you won't believe it.

No, I don't believe it because that whole thing about there being "another version of the novels" is absolutely ludicrous. I'm not that naive, sorry (and again, never mind the fact papy.co.jp lists the tables of contents of all those books and quotes the first pages of volumes 1 and 2, huh?).

I just want to tell you to stop looking through out stuff, stop talking about us.

Stop giving me reasons to. Stop pretending you're translating stuff. Stop spreading your fake translations and misleading people.

the reason why part of that gag panel wasn't translated? My fault. I'm the one who scanned it and it took several hours. I missed the top of that page when I sent it along and was too tired to notice.

That's an odd mistake to make, cropping a page like that. And nothing was translated, really.

You haven't been a single bit kind, especially when talking behind closed doors via the livejournal P Ms.

Still making stuff up, I see. I don't even have a livejournal account.

Oh, and:

I never spoke to you until several days ago when I discovered where you were publicly arguing. Despite you saying that you told me about papy or whatever you're claiming, no, my friends who bought the novel did.

I did explain all that to someone in the comments of what was (still is? I don't know) the latest entry on that "translated novel" livejournal, three weeks ago, before it was closed to "non-friends". I thought it was you, but I guess I may be mistaken, and it's not like I can go and check, now (again, no LJ account... my comments there were posted anonymously). My point was that it sure looked like whoever I was talking to had no idea that site was selling e books, and now, it seems you're using those precisions I gave you ("you" as in "you and your friends") to make more ludicrous excuses up. Between that, your attempt to have me banned here (I liked how you said you had no idea why I had deleted those entries), and your new tales about livejournal P Ms (???), I wouldn't say you've been "polite", really.

Does Hatagai get any kind of punishment in the novels

A breath of fresh air!! ... OK, it's about Hatagai, so not really, I guess. But thanks for that all the same. ^_^;

Anyway... Not really? Kirie gets a chance to kill him, but doesn't (the difference being that Hatagai asked him to). The government releases him. He helps Maya with her plan (i.e. he's partially responsible for the nuclear strikes). We don't hear about him after that. There's a good chance he got killed at some point (lots of people did, after all), but...?

To Miko Galatea: I dislike the way Erigu is conducting the evidence in general, the way he/she is taking things out of context on a comm where we just joke around. Before friendslocking the novel journal lead to Erigu implying we were just backpeddling or covering it up. I want him/her to stop making this argument so personal.

I never saw those comments and they aren't there now. I assumed it was via P Ms when it wasn't, sorry.

Regardless of whether it was an odd mistake or not, it was mine. My scanner crops things oddly and I have to rescan them. Stop trying to use a technical mistake to make it look like we are intentionally misleading the fandom.

It is really odd, but the point is when you buy it through papy you get a different story. I don't expect you to believe it anymore. At the point when we submitted the complaint, we really had no reason to believe you weren't just screwing around with the fandom. I believe now that you are a real fan, and that you're just trying to do what you think is right, but from the get go you haven't been cooperative or open-minded.

I dislike the way Erigu is conducting the evidence in general

You mean, how I actually provide some?

Stop trying to use a technical mistake to make it look like we are intentionally misleading the fandom.

How about you stop sidestepping all the other issues I listed above? After all, my main argument was that those supposed "translations" weren't translations at all. That was the point.

It is really odd, but the point is when you buy it through papy you get a different story.

Why, sure. And it's written in utterly broken "Japanese", too, as we've seen above.

Naturally, I don't suppose you can provide any kind of evidence?

At the point when we submitted the complaint, we really had no reason to believe you weren't just screwing around with the fandom.

Sure, you did: I made it clear why I was deleting those entries. I'm not sure how you could know who deleted those entries without seeing my comments about them.

I mean how every comment you make is a backhanded insult.

I don't have the copy from papy. I can't take pictures or screenshots or anything to prove otherwise. All I have is a character reference to say that the people who have the copy, who have been working on the translation, are good people who are not lying.

Regarding the gag panels, I don't know. I can't prove either way. Maybe they aren't real translations, but the novel is.

I have a lot better things to do than argue with you when you won't give me any kind of decency. If friendlocking is what it will take to keep you from digging through our comm, then so be it.

All I have is a character reference to say that the people who have the copy, who have been working on the translation, are good people who are not lying.

Ask them for some evidence, then.

Regarding the gag panels, I don't know. I can't prove either way.

Well, I can prove that those "translations" are fake, and I did. See above. I even detailed the translation of one sentence of the epilogue. Like I said, you can even check by copying / pasting the Japanese sentence in Google Translate or Babel Fish. It's simply nothing like Amanda's supposed "translation".

Maybe they aren't real translations, but the novel is.

And you know that... how? It's the same supposed "translator", and you said yourself you had no evidence.

All right, I've held my tongue in as long as I possibly could. Firstly, yes, I'm one of Amanda's friends, and while I'm not one of the people translating the novel itself, I am one of them who would like to read it.

Now, I will attempt to have a <i>civil</i> discussion with you regarding this matter. Please consider what I have to say about this with an open mind and with no malice added to it, Erigu.

Translations are hard to do from another language into English, and I can understand the complexities of the Japanese language itself. I will say that I am not proficient or fluent in Japanese by any stretch of the imagination, and I will not pretend to be. However when someone who's first language is Arabic of all things and is trying her best (with help from the others who have copies of the novel, too) to produce the translations out when <i>no one else offered to</i> means that they're at least giving an attempt at doing something that no one else did. I'm fairly new to the Bokurano fandom, so perhaps I'm speaking too quickly. But, considering the translations, I don't believe I've seen anyone else do them for the English speaking fandom itself.

Keeping this in mind, no one is perfect in the things they do. That's what people do with constant practice, which is what those who are working on the translation are doing: Practicing. They also try to minimize the errors that will come up with translations by working as a team. Now, if anything seems egregious with you and your interpretation of them, then I do apologize, but the translators themselves are working as best as they can.

With that said, I would like if it is at all possible for you to please cease with this. While strife will exist in a fandom, it should also strive to be a community for everyone, and I'd like to be proud to say that I'm in such an accepting fandom, regardless of minor infractions with translations.

We, as in Amanda's friends, are a really accepting group of people, no matter how we may look on here. And, if Erigu won't accept my plea to stop with his harassment of us, then that's fine. We have our own corner of the internet sandbox to play in and so does he.

Thank you and have a nice day.

while I'm not one of the people translating the novel itself

Then again, nobody is translating the novel.

I am one of them who would like to read it.

I'm not sure how I could prevent you from reading Amanda's fanfiction.

when someone who's first language is Arabic of all things and is trying her best (with help from the others who have copies of the novel, too) to produce the translations out

She's not translating anything. That's the whole point. It's all a hoax. Read above.

It should be noted that Erigu pritty much acts like a creepy stalker to Ari and several others right here:

http://digi-dragon.livejournal.com/87024.html?thread=357360#t357360

Err, this isn't the place for augments....

I'm just saying this whole thing passed "a bit too far" awhile ago.

You do realise that all you did is critic Erigu's manner without single evident that his statement is wrong, right?

That made his accuse more believable.

And I can understand his action. Lets use metaphor for the situation, assuming that Erigu is right one (since so far, all proof come from him). You travel to Mars and meet Martian colonists and found that they love Harry Potter movies. The Martians heard of Harry books, but none of them own the books - not to mention only few of them known English well enough to read the novel. Wait, you found that there are translation floating in Martian's equivalent to internet...

...except it turn out to be My Immortal with illustration from Harry Potter. :p Since you do own the books, you try to expose the hoax - but Adnama and her Martian friends keep dodging and refuse to admit it and even try to has your account banned from Mars Trope. A harsh manner can be expect, even if it isn't nice thing to do.

You assume that I actually care about this whole translation/hoax thing when I don't. I could give any less of a fuck about the whole thing. I'm saying that this has gotten way out of hand. When you stalk around two dozen people over a translation/mistranslation/whatever it has offically gone too far.

It should be noted that Erigu pritty much acts like a creepy stalker to Ari and several others right here

Er... So, Ari told me here that she had posted a message about that on her journal, that message was addressed to me in particular... and going there and replying to it makes me a "creepy stalker"?

... Okay?

When you stalk around two dozen people

Whuh?

Like I said, I was intrigued by that supposed "translation" and tried to see if it was a hoax, a translation of some Japanese fanfiction, something else... I found that Bokurano LJ community thingy, looked for messages by the "translator" and those who were claiming to own the novels and help with / comment on the "translation" to see what was up with all that and collect some evidence. I don't remember "stalking two dozen people", sorry.

You assume that I actually care about this whole translation/hoax thing when I don't. I could give any less of a fuck about the whole thing.

Ehh...so you have zero interest in the ongoing event...yet you known ebough about it that you think Erigu is stalker just by reading his message? Lovely...

That aside (I don't like that kind much anyway :p ), Erigu exposing their hoax here...one that the authors refuse to admit. So it's natural that he keep his eyes on their activities for time being. It isn't stalking in this context.