Should Lizzie Bennet and Fitzwilliam be on this page? They only spend a few weeks in each other's company if memory serves.
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I don't think they really count. Looks like Square Peg Round Trope.
Should we add Marceline and Finn from Adventure Time? I think they have a pretty platonic thing going on.
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Platonic, sure. Life partners, though? There's no way Marceline beats out Jake.
Edited by calmestofdoves
This entry is being edit warred over, regarding the phrasing of the relationship:
- Bleach: Word of God describes the relationship between Ichigo and Rukia as closer than friends, less than lovers.
Sort it out here by discussion, not by edit warring.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman Hide / Show Replies
Like I had said previously, Tite Kubo never said the phrase "closer than friends, less than lovers"
word for word. It's a made up quote created by fandom. Kubo said that the relationship between the two is a precious friendship with no romantic feelings involved.
I also want to note that the troper yatojpg has never made any other edits in this wiki. Only the Ichi Ruki example in the Platonic Life-Partners page.
From the current description: "In real life, being Like Brother and Sister often entails a more physical relationship, whereas this trope involves more emotional relationships."
Do you agree? I personally don't see it, or at least consider it too much of a generalisation.
'Crisis or no, nothing should interfere with tea!' Hide / Show Replies
I've taken it out.
'Crisis or no, nothing should interfere with tea!'
I think this trope should be expanded to include gay and bisexual characters that are in close platonic relationships with other gay and bisexual characters. In other words, anytime that sexual attraction could be a possibility, but is not.
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Movement seconded. Between Heterosexual Life-Partners and The Straight Will And Grace, there's no trope for deep friendships involving a homosexual character.
With the article rename to Platonic Life-Partners, it would be simple to rewrite the summery to include homosexual characters.
Movement thirded. I've actually seen something like this between a couple of my real-life friends.
I think any male and female who are close enough friends should qualify for this trope, regardless of their orientation.
'Crisis or no, nothing should interfere with tea!'
I just made a couple of changes to the description. One was to add Harry & Hermione as a specific example of two characters who don't fit the trope. They've been added to this page no fewer than four times, and I was getting sick of having to remove them. Hopefully mentioning them at the top of the page will discourage people from adding them in the future.
The other was to remove some language implying that same-sex couples could qualify for this trope. Unless there's been some major rethinking that I'm unaware of (and I don't see any here on the discussion page), my understanding is that this trope is only for opposite-sex couples. Same-sex couples fall under Heterosexual Life-Partners. That goes whether the characters are straight or have some other orientation - there's a note on the HLP page making it clear that couples can qualify even if one or more members is non-straight.
Edited by BlueIceTea 'Crisis or no, nothing should interfere with tea!'
The following examples have been removed from the page on the basis that we were unable to determine their validity. If you know their validity to the trope as it is currently defined, please re-add them. Read the definition carefully first.
- In Gundam 00, Setsuna F. Seiei explains to Feldt Grace at some point that his relationship with Princess Marina Ismail is like this. It doesn't help that she reminds him a lot of his deceased mother. Whom he killed when pretty much brainwashed by Ali Al -Saachez.
- In Xamd Lost Memories, Akiyuki and Nakiami are strictly Nakama. Since, you know, he has feelings for Haru and vice versa. And Nakiami has no interest in romance because it never occured to her in the first place.
- Modesty Blaise and Willie Garvin, of Modesty Blaise. (It is perhaps significant that the 1960s Live-Action Adaptation film insisted on giving them a Relationship Upgrade, prompting howls of outrage from fans).
- Cassie and Vlad from the Hack/Slash comic.
- Possibly what Two-Face had in mind when he followed through with his plan to destroy Renee Montoya's life so they could be together, despite discovering that she's a lesbian.
- Or he is, you know, flipping insane.
Montoya: "Harvey, you outed me! I'm Gay! I'm a Dyke, a Lesbian. I like girls!"Two-Face: " Yeah, I know all that. I don't see what that has to do with us" - In Scott Pilgrim, Scott and Kim have kinda have this going on, especially in the latest volume, although they did date each other way back in high school, and Kim still harbours some bad feelings about it.
- On that note, Wonder Woman and Superman; they've been shipped together for years (both in-universe and out, to a lesser degree), and are frequently paired up in Elseworlds and Alternate Universes, but they've never been anything more than close friends in the main continuity.
- Jason and Kaylee in Big Fat Liar.
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Beezus Quimby and Henry Huggins of Beverly Cleary's books, as well as Ramona Quimby and Howie Kemp. Mind you, they're still in grade school. - Aldo and DeDe in Johanna Hurwitz's books.
- Vlad and Lady Teldra in the Dragaera books. At first they are simply colleagues. In Issola, they develop a bantering, friendly relationship, but neither seems particularly interested in an Interspecies Romance. Taking it further is difficult, given Teldra's death and incorporation into Godslayer. Though, like other characters possessing an Empathic Weapon, Vlad feels very pleasant when holding Lady Teldra. And then there's the whole "Blackwand loved Morrolan, Iceflame loved Sethra, and Lady Teldra loved me" bit. Given Sethra's line about Lady Teldra eventually "waking up"...who knows?
- Also, Vlad and Kiera, at least until she is revealed to be Sethra Lavode. This includes lines such as "she gave me a kiss that would make Cawti jealous if she was the jealous type," and a humorous suggestion that, to avoid the stigma of Kiera being in Vlad's office, "we'll let slip that we've been lovers for years."
- A semi-example (semi because one of the character's isn't straight) in the Bernie Rhodenbar series of mysteries. Gentleman Thief Bernie has a much closer relationship with lesbian Carolyn than with any of the girls in each novel.
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Digory and Polly, and later Jill and Eustace, in The Chronicles Of Narnia. - Locke and Nazca in the Gentleman Bastard Sequence. Her father attempts to arrange a marriage between them, but neither is fond of the idea. Unfortunately, it's canceled when Nazca is murdered.
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Wedge Antilles is very close to Leia Organa, from the scenes where they interact. They do move in very different circles, of course, one being an apolitical Ace Pilot and the other being a politician and a Jedi, and Wedge tends to get ignored by most writers, so those scenes are quite rare. At any rate, they confide in each other, back each other up, and once Leia even kisses Wedge's cheek. After holding his hand. And asking if he's thought about having children. But she's with Han, really, even if in that same scene she says that she rarely gets to see him anymore.- From the same series, Corran Horn and Iella Wesseri, who were partners in the Corellian Security Force. Interestingly, it's mentioned that after Iella saved Corran's life he was infatuated with her, but the Imperial liaison interrupted with paperwork and they didn't see each other for a few days, by which time the blush had faded and Corran realized that a relationship with Iella would mean destroying her marriage. They also posed as a couple a few times while undercover, but although they're very close, they're just really good friends even after her husband's death.
- Mr Steed and Mrs Peel from Brit classic The Avengers. A marvelous review of this show.
- Clarissa and Sam of Clarissa Explains It All. An episode has them actually trying to hook up, kiss on the lips included, and failing because they were too comfortable in their friendship.
- The Adventures Of Pete And Pete used a similar plot. Elder Pete and his best friend Ellen went on a date that went terribly, and they resolved to remain friends.
- However, at the end of said episode, Ellen gives Big Pete a friendly peck, and it turns into a full-on kiss. Pete realizes that his relationship with Ellen is the same as it was when the day started (he doesn't know if they're truly friends or more-than) and that "time would tell". The writers of the show themselves couldn't keep it straight; on the DVD commentary, by their own admission, they had no clue about continuity and character/story arcs, and regarding the unresolved issue of the nature of Pete and Ellen's relationship: "We had them kiss a few times...then I think we just forgot about it."
- The Adventures Of Pete And Pete used a similar plot. Elder Pete and his best friend Ellen went on a date that went terribly, and they resolved to remain friends.
- Tim and Daisy in Spaced — although it was implied that both held deeper feelings towards each other over the course of the show.
- However, the ending of the series and a small scene at the end of a Making Of feature which shows Tim and Daisy with a child makes it quite obvious they've eventually given up being "Just Friends".
- Lynda and Kenny in Press Gang.
- Jerry and Elaine from Seinfeld, even though they did date before the series started. Oh, and attempted to add in just sex to their relationship. And they once had "sex to save the friendship".
- Mal and Zoe from Firefly. Partly due to the fact that they were some of the few survivors of the Battle of Serenity Valley. Zoe is unquestionably loyal to Mal, but she is also quite in love with her husband. Any possibility of the viewers seeing UST between Mal and Zoe was destroyed in "War Stories":
Zoe: I understand. We have no choice. Take me, sir. Take me hard.A highly unnerved Jayne: Now somethin' about that is just downright unsettlin'.
- CJ and Toby of The West Wing. They're close friends from long before the show started, but never show anything other than platonic friendship and, like all friendships on The West Wing, their history is never elaborated upon.
- Murphy Brown and Frank Fontana. Any hope of romance between these two was blatantly and purposefully killed very early on. There are many moments throughout the series where they're nauseated at the thought of thinking about each other "in that way", and Frank once states that they "love each other too much to ruin it with marriage."
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Scrubs: J.D. and Carla, Turk and Elliott... which is good seeing as how Turk is married to Carla and J.D. ended up with Elliott.-
Although J.D. and Carla once shared a drunken kiss and Turk was disturbed by dreams of seduction by Elliott.
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- Veronica and Wallace on Veronica Mars. Their parents were the ones who dated, much to their chagrin, amusement, and occasional horror.
- Clark and Chloe from Smallville.
- Chloe is much, much more a case of the Unlucky Childhood Friend, especially since she spent so many seasons professing/hiding her feelings for Clark.
- Holly and Gary on What I Like About You, even once being simultaneously offended at somebody's suggestion otherwise.
- Note that Holly is the only character (male or female) not mesmerized when one of Gary's jobs requires him to be shirtless.
- Buffy and Xander, at least after Season One. In Season Seven, someone confuses them for boyfriend/girlfriend.
- Actually, I'd call Willow bisexual, since she didn't seem to be faking attraction to Oz.
- The Tenth Doctor and Donna, one of his most recent companions. She claims he's much too skinny for her taste, and they just travel the universe together without worrying about UST, though there was a Running Gag where they were mistaken for a married couple (and once as siblings) at least once an episode.
- The Doctor and the majority of his companions in the original series also qualified, although that was more commonly due to No Hugging, No Kissing than anything else, and there exists bountiful and not-that-baseless speculation about one-sided or reciprocated romantic feelings, especially with Sarah-Jane and Romana.
- Speculation made even more so due to that Tom Baker and Lalla Ward (did I spell that right?) were actually lovers IRL.
- And Sarah-Jane was pretty much declared canon in the new series.
- The Doctor and the majority of his companions in the original series also qualified, although that was more commonly due to No Hugging, No Kissing than anything else, and there exists bountiful and not-that-baseless speculation about one-sided or reciprocated romantic feelings, especially with Sarah-Jane and Romana.
- Simon and Susan in Teachers. At one point Simon made an effort to like Susan,thinking they'd perfect together, but got over quickly.
- Morgan and Garcia of Criminal Minds. They flirt shamelessly and obviously, and neither has a problem telling the other they love them, but Garcia is dating someone else, and in the end, their relationship just isn't a romantic one.
- However, Your Mileage May Vary on this one. Some see it as more brother/sister (though I don't know who would talk to their brother like that), while others see a growing sexual tension.
- Ted and Robin of How I Met Your Mother, after they stop dating of course.
- Mary and Lou from The Mary Tyler Moore Show. They finally went out in the next to last episode - and quickly realized it wouldn't work.
- Geema and Unser in the second season of Sons Of Anarchy even more so at the end now that she's on the lam and asked him for help.
- George and Izzie from Greys Anatomy ( they did hook up at one point but it only lasted a couple of weeks and then they went back to being just friends)
- Jonathan Creek and Maddie. They did sleep together once, but it didn't do much for either of them.
- Semi-example with Justin and Daphne in Queer As Folk. They did sleep together once, but only because Daphne didn't trust anyone else to take her virginity. In any case, Justin's gay and very much in love with Brian - but Daphne's still his best friend.
- Emily Smith and Julian Rove in Revelations... even though everybody (half of Emily's family, one of their best friends, and virtually anyone else who sees them interact) assumes them to be married.
- Hip-Hop artists and production duo Missy Elliot and Timbaland. The "straight" part is questionable, considering the rumors that have long surrounded Missy.
- Played straight with Saint Francis and Saint Clare of Assisi. Even before they took their vows (which enforced the "Will and Grace" part, obviously) they were like this: Clare was The Ojou of the place and Francis was her confidant and the local priest.
- Also, Saint Martin of Porres and Saint Rosa of Lima; Saint Jerome and Saint Paula (who was actually a married noblewoman); Saint John of the Cross and Saint Theresa of Avila.
- Some married couples in Christian martyrology and saints lists voluntarily renounced sexual activity (sometimes since the beginning, sometimes after having a child or more) and lived like this. Example: Saint Cecilia and her husband St. Valerianus, whose legend had Cecilia ask Valerianus for this arrangment and for him to convert before marrying. He accepted the deal and they lived more or less happily until they (and Valerianus's brother Therteus) were martyrized.
- Archie and Patrice in 13 fit this. They've been friends since childhood. Although this could be partly due to Archie's crush on the Brainless Beauty Kendra.
- The title characters from Banjo-Kazooie. It helps that the two are completely different species (not that that's stopped anyone before).
- Mario and Pauline, his old girlfriend from Donkey Kong, are shown to still be friends in Mario vs. Donkey Kong 2.
- Naked Snake and Boss seem to fit this trope very closely in Metal Gear Solid 3. Which makes them about the only two people not attracted them.
- Balthier and Fran in Final Fantasy XII. However, some fans speculate they've been an item in the past. In the present though, their relationship is fairly platonic.
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In Dragon Age: Origins, a female Mage PC and Jowan have this relationship, with the latter commenting that he thinks of the player more as a sister than anything. Later on you learn that it's because he's already in love with someone else, a Templar Initiate named Lily. - Though relatively minor characters, Quentin and Phoebe from Psychonauts may qualify—-they're almost always seen together, but Quentin is specifically mentioned to have a crush on a different girl.
- Davan and PeeJee in Something Positive. Compare this to Davan's more fraternal relationship with Aubrey, and the actual Will And Grace relationship between Peejee and Jhim. The series approaches the Love Dodecahedron stage in places, except that hardly anyone is romantically interested in the others.
- Though most of the cast (and fandom - frequent Word of God statements to the contrary be damned) assumes Davan and PeeJee will eventually hook up, and have told them so more than once.
- PeeJee did once ask Davan to marry her, but she explained that she saw it as a way of clinching their friendship; Davan had a crush on PeeJee once but says he's over it. Whether or not either of these is the unadorned truth is a subject of hot debate for the fandom.
- She snuggled up to him while he was asleep. The reason she won't admit her feelngs to him out loud is because he's the largest stick in the mud since Swamp Thing.
- The shippers should just give it up. Randy gets far too much pleasure out of torturing them to ever ship.
- Technically, he couldn't pair them off even if he wanted to, considering her character is based on a real person, and said real person made "Davan and Pee Jee can never be a couple" as her only condition for allowing him to use her in the first place.
- Gav and Suzy Gee of Nukees.
- Asher and Neithe of Get Medieval, Word of God confirming that they were never going to hook up.
- Llewellyn and Ms. Mudd in Ozy And Millie, although after a while they realized they were in love and decided to get married, mostly because they were more or less living as a married couple anyway.
- Sysreq and Verdana in ''Saturnalia" are close friends who meet daily for lunch, but have separate romantic interests (multiple for Verdana, as she is polyandrous).
- Marten and Faye in Questionable Content.
- Although the resulting Unresolved Sexual Tension between them was a running theme in the early era of the strip, and only really disapitated when Marten started dating Dora. This also seemed to brake up the Will and Grace coupling, as both ended up closer to Dora, as boyfriend and friend respectively.
- Brigid and Greg.
- LessThanThree Comics has Matt and Katie, who've lived next door to each other since childhood, and are best friends as a result.
- Epic Tales has John Hawk (aka Shadow Hawk) and his best friend Diana Dalton. In fact Diana is the only girl, other then their bitchy boss, who John doesn't hit on.
- Don't forget Manny and Frida in El Tigre. They can spend time in each other's bedrooms, even in their pajamas, without there being any sexual connotations. Then again, these are 13-year-old kids, and Frida's dad will do anything to get in the way and make life difficult for Manny.
- Number 1 (Nigel) and Number 5 (Abby) of Codename Kids Next Door were always especially close despite both of them being in an Official Couple with someone else. Number 5 considers Number 1 losing his hair her greatest failure, for one, and is willing to go to the literal ends of the Earth for his birthday gift. Their final good-bye in the Grand Finale was given the most emphasis, and Abby is the only one heard welcoming Nigel back when he returns to Earth.
- Spongebob and Sandy have shared this relationship, mixed with Unresolved Sexual Tension due to Bob's very obvious crush on her in the first season. Now, well ...
- Ben and Gwen in Ben 10 have always been like brother and sister, much to the displeasure of many fans.
No, they were removed because the definition of the trope had been re-written and we didn't know whether or not the examples in question still fit it.
'Crisis or no, nothing should interfere with tea!'
What happened to the name change? I thought it was going to be changed to 'Platonic Life Partners' because the name was confusing. What happened?
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Christmas. Christmas happened and now I can't find the thread on the forums on it. Grr. Guess I need to search the crowners directly.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Haha! Found it! Let's swap them.
The following X Just X example has been removed from the page. Please flesh it out before re-adding it.
- Olivia Dunham and Charlie Francis from "Fringe"
Bigendered Beauty
Should we rename this trope, there seem to be a lot of examples where one or more of the characters are gay and on other pages whenever it's mentioned someone will point out how "It's not really the 'straight' Will and Grace then is it?" in an attempt to be clever. I think if we rename it it could make the trope a lot clearer, I was thinking Romantic Friendship for a new trope name.
"I wish I could write as mysteriously as a cat." —Edgar Allen Poe Hide / Show Replies
Nah, I think it's fine.
Unless there is a better name.
Just being me.
Why do this and Like Brother and Sister have the same page quote? I would remove it, but I think we need to figure out if they're really separate tropes, and that's kind of a symptom.
As far as I can tell, Like Brother and Sister is basically a thin excuse for why two characters who act quite a bit like a couple are not and never will be a couple. The Straight Will And Grace is when they have all kinds of chemistry and whatnot, but none of it is romantic or sexual. For the former, romance just isn't going to happen because it's not, for the latter, a romantic relationship between them would just never get off the ground. I might be wrong. But, seriously, we need to either distinguish them more or lump them.
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To me:
- The Straight Will And Grace is when a pairing is introduced as platonic friends and have none or very small amounts of romantic interaction whatsoever.
- Like Brother and Sister is also used in Ship Sinking at the end of a Romance Arc.
Yes, The Straight Will And Grace couple might use the line about being Like Brother and Sister (or they are Like Brother and Sister and end up in a The Straight Will And Grace friendship), but it isn't exclusive. It's a stronger version of Better as Friends.
Like Brother and Sister can be used in any romantic pairing from a Slap-Slap-Kiss to Just Friends, where Alice doesn't have the same romantic feelings that Bob has, and Alice tells her he's like a brother to her. It doesn't necessarily mean they will end up as The Straight Will And Grace. Bob could be crushed, and leave for good to try and erase the pain of being rejected by the woman he loves.
I hope you can follow that.
Edited by mack
Removed the quote. Since it actually refers to someone being like a sister to the speaker, it just works a lot better on the Like Brother and Sister page. We seem to have reached the conclusion (here and in the Trope Repair Shop) that the two are not the same trope, so lumping seems unlikely; still if the articles are lumped at some point, the quote is still there on the Like Brother and Sister page.
There is talk about rewriting/reworking this page to clarify the difference between it and Like Brother and Sister. Contribute to the discussion here.
In the Teen Wolf example, did the original poster actually mean Scott and Lydia, or was this supposed to say Stiles and Lydia? Since Scott is definitely closer to Stiles, and Lydia seems more connected to Stiles as well, I am not sure if the example stands as is.