Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Malware Alert
, started by ConcernedTroperNumberOne on Mar 11th 2011 at 9:50:16 PM
Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: De-Flanderize, started by Handlebarsyndrome on Jan 7th 2011 at 7:35:24 AM
Previous Trope Repair Shop thread: Misused, started by Melkior on Sep 4th 2014 at 6:52:00 PM
...I think we can definitely use a better title for this trope, it suggests an entirely different meaning than what it actually is (verbal application of Heroic Resolve) and does not even have connotations to its common usage, nor is the trope namer so well-known or a codifier that the name wouldn't confuse people.
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I am not sure this is the right place to start that conversation about a change. You might want to go to forums and Trope Repair Shop and see what others say:
In my view, to take your points in consideration:
1) The meaning of the trope and concept is an existential moment of affirmation, where a character understands and/or defines who it is, what it is, and why it does, and finally allow themselves to express who they are. The Trope Namer and Trope Maker encapsulates that where Superman says that his problem is specifically not heroic resolve but heroic restraint, and he defines his character, contradiction and expresses himself.
So I don't think it's Heroic Resolve at all.
2) As for Connotations and Common Usage, and the Trope-Namer not being well-known, There Is No Such Thing As Notability.
On a more empirical note:
here are some hard numbers in the Related page which shows statistics of numbers of people who have visited this page and how many articles it is Cross-wicked on. Both exceed three-digits significantly.
So I don't think it's as much a problem as you believe to be.
I think a bunch of the examples on the page misunderstand the trope. A lot of people put down examples of:
1) Someone newly realizing something important about themselves and giving an awesome speech right before they Took a Level in Badass and save the day
2) Someone deciding to try a new strategy in a fight and giving an awesome speech to the villain before the fight resumes
3) A villain having a change of heart and giving a rousing speech right before their Heel–Face Turn
The trope is about someone who has phenomenal cosmic power and actively chooses not to use it most of the time. And a bunch of these examples don't really fit the bill.
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I actually made an account to say something like this. Many of the examples don't seem to fit the actual speech the trope is named after. Furthermore, the speech is well known enough that anyone who was a fan of the DCU knows The World of Cardboard Speech well enough that naming a trope after may be somewhat confusing. If anything this trope should be called Heroic Gloating as a counter to Evil Gloating since it entails a hero countering the villain's boasts by pointing out how they never had a chance to win. Even the beginning of the speech isn't about how powerful Superman is but about how Darkseid can never stop Batman without killing him because Batman will never give up.
Yeah, this page seems to be about 4 distinct types of speeches (and therefore 4 different tropes) mashed together. Only the "you, villain, are screwed because I've been holding back the whole time so no one gets hurt" speeches count. Ones where the hero realizes they've been holding back when they didn't think they were are related, but not world of cardboard speeches. Others here are just "reason you suck" speaches, and don't belong at all.
I think the title definitely needs to be changed. The title seems to suggest that the character is discussing living in a world of cardboard; that isn't what it means at all. It could not be any more opaque.
Before I just go and add it, would the ending narration from American Psycho count?
Does "World of Cardboard" as its own trope exist? As in a character who is so crazy over-powered that they almost have to avoid people?
To try and put an end to the argument that Terry's speech to the Joker isn't a "World of Cardboard" Speech, here is the reasons why. The Speech is a personal epiphany about yourself or the situation, Terry realizes that, unlike Bruce, he enjoys mocking his enemy. Regardless, Terry's revelation was not on how pathetic the Joker is, otherwise the dialogue would have gone "He's tough, any advice?" "Joker's vain and likes to talk, ignore it and power on through." "Wait, that's the reason he keeps coming back!" instead of "Wait, I like to talk too."
The Speech takes on different forms, sometimes it is a Rousing Speech, other times a Bond One-Liner, maybe a Shut Up, Hannibal! and yet others is a "The Reason You Suck" Speech, they are not exclusive. In this particular instance, what is significant is not what Terry is actually telling the Joker but the fact that Terry is out-trash talking the Joker. From there that equates the "Revelation -> Power" that the WOC Speech is about.
I've noticed that too. But it is a dialogue heavy trope and a lot of people feel that merely summarizing it does it an injustice. Some of the longer ones I will take to the quotes page.
I'd actually like a few more quotes. For instance, the supposed "Tear Jerker" speeches from Superman.
While I think the current title is great and should stay as the primary link, a redirect or two might not be a bad idea for the newbies here. Something like Breakthrough Epiphany Speech, which is nice and descriptive, but boring.
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Redirects Are Free, so long as it isn't simply plural forms of the original title or too nonsensical.
Renamed per TRS
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman