I want to delete Beauty and the Beast as an example, but I haven't seen the movie (nor the animated version). The explanation does NOT show that there is an example in the movie, because all it says is that Gaston enjoys chasing Belle. It does NOT say that Gaston is put off by all the other women. Perhaps, he actually says that in the movie, but the explanation doesn't mention it???
Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Expand? Split?
, started by SalFishFin on Feb 13th 2011 at 12:21:59 AM
'''HOORAY!'''
Natter mania!
- And do women like it when guys chase them and come on them too aggressively?
- The standards of "too aggressively" are totally different as far as this trope is concerned. A guy who is truly persistent to the point of harassment is always bad news; but some guys get turned off by a girl who does something as extreme as ask them out on a date, instead of waiting for them to ask her out.
- Reminds me of when I spent two years of my life trying to get some stupid kid to date me, because I absolutely adored this guy and I wanted him so bad. I got sick of waiting after 2 years and trying to be subtle and hoping he'd take the damned hint, so I pretty much threw myself at that miserable little motherfucker, and guess what I got? Dead. Cold. Rejection. Very quickly he turned cold on me and refused to to ever talk to me again, and to this day I've never been able to figure out what went wrong or what I didn't do right. All I know is that my once best-friend now hates my guts. It's too bad, too. I really would have loved to have my first kiss with this guy...
- Subverted by a ton of guys though. They'd kill for even a vaguely attractive girl to just walk in and pick them up
- And do women like it when guys chase them and come on them too aggressively?
- I remember Dr. Drew referring to this as The Phallic Female on Love Line. That is when a women comes on too aggressively, it can turn a guy off, which then can lead to the women becoming frustrated and thus more aggressive which puts the guy off more.
- In this troper's experience, guys who think like this are the first ones to mock and belittle women who find aggressive courting by men threatening. They're the ones shrieking "give the poor guy a break!" when Creepy McSmelly won't leave you alone.
- Geez, tropers, Double Standard much? So it's okay for women to be aggressive and forward, and if guys are put off by it that makes them sexist, whereas a guy who pursues women the same way is a pervert, hands down? Way to be subtle about the Unfortunate Implications, intentional or otherwise.
- Men pursuing women and women pursuing men are not generally seen the same way in our culture. For a man to be seen as a "pervert" he'd have to harass a woman, not leave her alone even after she makes it clear she's not interested, etc. A woman will often be seen as "aggressive and forward" if she does something as mild as asking someone out or offering to buy someone a drink or some such — things that, on their own, are both acceptable and expected from a guy. That's the real double standard.
- Geez, tropers, Double Standard much? So it's okay for women to be aggressive and forward, and if guys are put off by it that makes them sexist, whereas a guy who pursues women the same way is a pervert, hands down? Way to be subtle about the Unfortunate Implications, intentional or otherwise.
"Geez, tropers, Double Standard much? So it's okay for women to be aggressive and forward, and if guys are put off by it that makes them sexist, whereas a guy who pursues women the same way is a pervert, hands down? Way to be subtle about the Unfortunate Implications, intentional or otherwise. "
Your'e right i wonder why some guys give those forward girls a chance? although she may not be the dream girl at least give a chance. And in this troper's view i think it's okay for girls to chase boys, conservative rule my foot.(no offense)(where i come from guys should ask girls out, rare is the time where the girl does the same thing to a guy.
To the first poster: Geez, what a trainwreck! That natter was pretty entertaining to read. Also, some instances of this trope almost seem like they're "complaining about the objects of the Abhorrent Admirer's affection that you don't like". Should it really count as "sexist" if she's stalking him, and doing things that would hands-down qualify as inappropriate if the genders were flipped? Or is it more reasonable to only count it if she so much as, say, made the first move, took him out to dinner, bought him a drink, etc. and all other factors working in her favor, he's extremely turned off by her being something other than passive? That should be looked into.
Deleted this:
- Contributors for That Guy with the Glasses had a running Love Triangle: The Nostalgia Chick wanted Todd in the Shadows, who was not interested but wanted the very disinterested Obscurus Lupa. They had the odd distinction of making the Chick and Todd both look pathetic for obsessively pursuing someone who didn't love them back. Then came the triangle's resolution in To Boldly Flee, in which Todd was made into the Dogged Nice Guy, Lupa was called a "cold, heartless vacuum" for originally and very politely rejecting him, and Lindsay was demonized.
for a few reasons. Chick did more than "chase", she's tried to rape him, kidnapped him loads of times, tried to kill Lupa in Honor And Glory because she was being "mean" to him and has generally acted like a psychopath. Todd is obsessive and has done stupid things, but has never tried to actively force Lupa into anything. As for the vacuum line, this was Mickey, the guy who gorily killed a villain because he was called short. The story treated her like an Only Sane Woman.
I cut up one dozen new men and you will die somewhat, again and again.
sdmitch16
For some reason I was unable to add Men Act, Women Are to the parents section of relationships. Also, I'm not sure to how to see if someone changes one of my edits.
Will I be informed if people reply to my discussion post?
Putting this discussion here:
- This troper isn't entirely certain that FMP counts for this trope. I has always seen his reluctance with Tessa to be a result of his military background (fraternization with ones superior officer is a big no-no), rather than being "scared" of her pursuit. Then again, I also don't recall the numerous times Tessa tried to molest him in his sleep... I'm just not sure whether his attraction to Kaname is this trope, the nature of Tsundere relationships, or something else entirely. I'd chalk Nami up to the "she reminds me of my kidnapped quasi-girlfriend" element.
- The sleep molestation incidents took place in Full Metal Panic Fumoffu, which is why you may not recall it. That series also featured his interactions with a female classmate who expressed her attraction to him in a very shy, demure, sweet, and non-confrontational way... and was brutally shot down. (Almost literally shot down, in fact. It's Sousuke. He thought she was a terrorist.)
- This troper isn't entirely certain that FMP counts for this trope. I has always seen his reluctance with Tessa to be a result of his military background (fraternization with ones superior officer is a big no-no), rather than being "scared" of her pursuit. Then again, I also don't recall the numerous times Tessa tried to molest him in his sleep... I'm just not sure whether his attraction to Kaname is this trope, the nature of Tsundere relationships, or something else entirely. I'd chalk Nami up to the "she reminds me of my kidnapped quasi-girlfriend" element.
In regards to Ena Saeki, it could be argued that she is more aggressive in pursuing love than Kaname or Nami. Those two wouldn't even have the guts to write a love letter or speak up and try to confess their feelings for him. Another aspect is that it might be more of a case where she never got to really interact with Sousuke enough for him to deem her close enough to not be a terrorist. It's hard to say whether, giving her a position of trust and mutual interest with him, he still would've literally shot her down.
Saving this discussion to here, in case the issue ever comes up again:
- Lenalee is also his friend and partner, rather than 1) an enemy or 2) a stranger, and although the romantic subtext between a man and a woman is never fully absent in a series like this, there's no real indication that his friendliness towards Lenalee is sexually motivated.
- Actually, there is some clear, non-YMMV proof that Allen is attracted to Lenalee. In the official Gray Ark chart of character relationships, his feelings toward Lenalee are expressed as "She's so cute...". Likewise in volume 3, he is also shown blushing at Lenalee and thinking "She's so cute"
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- Not only that, but there's also some pretty firm proof in the same aforementioned omake, where Allen is shown to get nervous and shocked when he hears Lavi say that he's interested (romantically) in Lenalee. Lavi even gets rather curious about such a reaction, and asks Allen slyly what's wrong. Not to mention the Black Dinner Party drama CD, where Allen, Lavi, and Kanda confess (while drunk) that they all like Lenalee.
- Actually, there is some clear, non-YMMV proof that Allen is attracted to Lenalee. In the official Gray Ark chart of character relationships, his feelings toward Lenalee are expressed as "She's so cute...". Likewise in volume 3, he is also shown blushing at Lenalee and thinking "She's so cute"
- Lenalee is also his friend and partner, rather than 1) an enemy or 2) a stranger, and although the romantic subtext between a man and a woman is never fully absent in a series like this, there's no real indication that his friendliness towards Lenalee is sexually motivated.
I wouldn't mind in the slightest if I were being chased by a woman I actually found attractive. Unfortunately, it never seems to work out that way. The only women I can recall ever chasing me seemed capable of giving me a "social disease" just by being in the same room (or most recently, aboard the same trolley car).