I would like to propose adding a new Marty Stu classification for the "Most Common Marty Stus" page: Coldsteel Stu, that one escapist character — whom you are definitely sure was created by a 12 year-old who listens to Linkin Park — that screams "EDGE" in both personality and design, often modelled after either the average '90s Anti-Hero or the average Stock Shōnen Rival.
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Given that the entire Mary Sue trope family is Flame Bait, I doubt suggestions for new subtropes are going to get much approval.
That said, this is really more of a Trope Launch Pad topic.
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
Bitchy Science Lady
The Entry for Marty Stu and Mary Sue says to list examples on their respective subpages. Each subpage, however, states not to add examples. Why is this?
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Okay, there isn't enough info on Gary Stus / Marty Stus, so I think we should have more specific info and divide it up into subtropes:
- Macho Stu (or "Chuck Norris" Stu): This guy is all action, all the time. He can kick ass all day and still take on even more. The epitome of MANLINESS, and the embodiment of masculinity, there's no doubt he's suffered from a testosterone overdose. Nine times out of ten, he is written by a male author, with variable levels of Wish-Fulfillment tossed in. You won't see him dwell often on romance, if ever, since Real Men Hate Affection. After a while, you may get the feeling he's Compensating for Something, Nudge. The Ace and Memetic Badass * are specific parodies of this trope.
- Romantic Stu: This sort of Marty Stu is much "tamer" than the previous type, and is much more interested in his love interest. In fact, he's more intuitive to the needs of his beloved than any heterosexual man in Real Life would ever be. A prime example of this would be Edward Cullen. He might be a bad boy, or Troubled, but Cute, or this may be just an Informed Attribute. Either way, he's everything a girl would dream of in a guy...mostly because he's written by a girl.
- Uke Stu: Taking Romantic Stu a step further, there's the Uke Stu. As the name implies, he's likely a character possessing the traits typically associated with the 'receiver' in Boys' Love and Yaoi. If he's not gay, he's probably less aggressive than his female love interest.
- Loser Stu: This type of Marty Stu is unattractive, rude, and often meant to be a stand-in for the male audience. Yet somehow, he manages to score with beautiful women, often resulting in Kavorka Man and Ugly Guy, Hot Wife.
I took these examples from here
, and then cut out all the Take Thats at Twilight and Justin Bieber. I don't know, should we add these?
Including subtypes seems like a good idea. But Romantic Stu sounds like a male Relationship Sue and Loser Stu seems to be just Anti-Sue meets Lemon Stu, not to say they can't be added, of course. In fact, I think it's a good idea to add these subtypes.
Edited by 216.99.32.42
The Keenest Of Them All
This page says "Don't add examples here, add them in the pages below:" but one of the pages is Mary Tzu, which also says don't add examples!
Watch out where you step, or we'll be afoot. Hide / Show Replies
Yeah, I finally found a "lovable marty stu" & there's no way I can add him. (It's Sebastian from Black Butler. He literally can & does do anything & better than anyone, yet no fans of the series hate him).
Hrm, maybe it's just my experience, but I see the term Gary Stu used far more often than Marty Stu, so I'm wondering if that would be the better "main" article title...
Edited by LordSeth Hide / Show Replies
What is a Marty Stu and can they be saved? Personally, I grapple with this problem with a few of my favorite characters that I write with. Drake, and Lee.
Let's start with the one I'm more comfortable with. Drake, I KNOW is a Marty Stu, but I counter this in several ways. For example: While Drake IS the typical God-Mode Sue, I try to counter this by having him do nothing, and only have him there as a character that simply gives advice and guides the main protagonists, a la The Obi-Wan. How much of a Marty Sue is he?
Now, the one I worry about. Lee. Which is to say, me. My own Author avatar. I usually use him in Canon's that I have made myself, and call myself the Overlord, a la Disgaea, or often, Overlord Lee. Keeping to his Author avatar ways, Lee knows all that has, is, or ever will happen in the world he's in, simply because he (I) made it, and often make jokes about that (unless the canon isn't mine.) In games, he's often the strongest recruitable character, and, to my shame, goes after the woman I'd go after, if the MC isn't courting her himself. When an enemy, he's either a Hopeless boss fight or a Bonus boss, that drops the Infinity +1 Sword, which obviously is a Game-Breaker, or teaches the Fantastic nuke spell. When put in a Canon that isn't mine...well, I have only started doing that now, and I've scaled by his knowledge of the world, as well as his uber-power, but he's still meant to be me, living in that world, with a back story purposely left vague.
While these are both Marty Stu's, I can't help but question if they will be looked at with the typical hate that comes with a Marty Stu, or as normal characters...
Edited by Stoogebie Hide / Show Replies
The key to making sure that a Marty Stu character isn't hated is largely to make sure they aren't explicitly flawless. If your Marty Stu is the Deus in Deus ex Machina, and it's easily telegraphed as an insert, then yes, that's a problem. If they're universally successful in all forays, that's also a problem, because nothing worse than a Marty Stu Boring Invincible Hero where people act like he's awesome instead of, well, boring. By contrast, a Marty Stu who fails, but fails in a manner blatantly demanding sympathy from the audience and other characters will also grate on people's nerves.
The funny thing is, you've already taken a good first step to avoid making a Stu that people hate- you're worried about it. Most obnoxious Stus are very clearly written by people with no interest in balance, depth, or likability- that's why they think the Stu's a good idea. Simply because of their overblown ego. They cannot fathom people not liking him. The main thing you need to keep doing is be self-critical about your own perceived weaknesses. Are there logical, in-universe reasons for the character to be as powerful as they are? Do characters have mixed emotions toward them instead of loving them unconditionally? Are they blatantly based on you, to the point that that's what any reader would immediately guess?
Keeping these questions in mind is the best way to avoid people hating your character. Don't worry overmuch about the specific nuance of the Marty Stu label. Focus on the character himself, and you'll be fine. Probably.
See you in the discussion pages.
So, I was reading the examples of stus and saw "scientific mastery/intelligence" as one of the common things. I wanted to bring this up here to get multiple inputs but here's the general idea: would these features be less indicative of intelligence and more of the male character having unlimited authority, mostly in the form of shutting others down?