I added a bit about Islam, many of whose teachings incorporated Christian and Jewish teachings and in some sense, the person of Jesus himself (in a sense, hijacking Jesus rather than being highjacked by Jesus, so to speak). I was not sure how controversial these might be, as they pertain to deeply held faiths of many in the present. What do you think? (and feel free to change/delete them if they seem out of place.)
She/Her
Yes, that's a much better phrasing in the Temple of Doom section.
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The thuggees didn't actually murder people. They where bandits who robbed merchants, caravans, traders, and the like. They did this in honor of Kali. They didn't run around sacrificing folk like crazies, albeit they did kill people every now and then. I don't get the reasoning as to why, however.
By the way, the concept of "heresy" in Hinduism is quite new. The Thuggee way of life is only considered sinful in modern times. The majority of info we have on them is written by those who despised or did not understand their beliefs. Hence why most info sources can't be called unbiased.
Edited by Antichristian
Every now and then? Have you READ the confessions of Thugs? They killed most everyone they robbed, the killing was the goal, so they claimed, probably not true, but by claiming the robbery was incidental, that the killing was ordained by Kali, they gave 'justification'
If they didn't kill you, it was because you were adopted into the group. They murders were very well co-ordinated strangling, with Thugs outnumbering their victims 5 to 1.
Reading the accounts from Sleeman's book, the trial records, it's quite fascinating.
I'm too lazy for a signature.
Moved these threads of Discussion In The Main Page here. If there are valid examples somewhere in there, they're buried in natter and Word Cruft.
- The Greeks themselves did this to a considerable extent. Many Egyptian gods were identified with Greek ones, Odin was identified with Mercury, and the Romans later identified the Greek gods with their own pantheon (although the religions were very, very different). Much of this has to do with the European and Hindu pantheons being descended from an older proto-Indo-European pantheon.
- The most trustworthy sources for Celtic Mythology we know of (seeing as the Celts and Gauls were not in the habit of writing down their stories) come from Romans who refer to their deities with terms such as "Gaulish Mercury." By the time the myths actually got put to writing, it was by monks and scholars who, keeping with the trope, downgraded the gods and spirits to saints or heroes along with various other Bowdlerisations.
- While in Ireland, almost all surviving Gaelic mythology was recorded by Early Medieval Christian monks who similarly recast mythological figures as historical saints, rulers and warriors, going to painstaking lengths to construct a timeline which functioned within a literalist Biblical framework.
- The most trustworthy sources for Celtic Mythology we know of (seeing as the Celts and Gauls were not in the habit of writing down their stories) come from Romans who refer to their deities with terms such as "Gaulish Mercury." By the time the myths actually got put to writing, it was by monks and scholars who, keeping with the trope, downgraded the gods and spirits to saints or heroes along with various other Bowdlerisations.
- Both Greeks and Romans practiced what was known as interpretatio graeca, trying to identify the neighbors' gods with their own. Hence, we get the pairings Mars/Ares, Jupiter/Zeus, Juno/Hera, etc. This often produced some shifts in the gods as their personalities were matched up. A Roman writer would describe the Germans' chief god as Mercury; that was Odin. And among the Egyptian gods, they identified Thoth with Mercury. Having identified Zeus with Set, the Ptolemiac dynasty tried to improve Set's reputation in Egypt.
- The same was true when the Greeks tried to take over Egypt, appropriating and combining Egyptian gods with their own pantheon. One example was their attributing Hermes with Anubis, mutating the two into "Hermanubis".
- The oddest merging that the Greeks did was by the Selecuids, who ruled over the majority of the old Persian Empire after Alexander's conquest, who tried to link the Greek gods to the Iranian gods. Zeus is equated with Ahura Mazda, which is incredibly odd since Ahura Mazda is the uncreated who created everything else (including the other gods, arguably making those that worship him monotheistic as the other gods are more like angels), is the force of Good in the battle against Angra Manyu, the epitome of Evil, that he is destined to win. Of course Zeus really is only similar to Ahura Mazda in that they are the head gods in their pantheon, as Zeus was created, didn't really create anything himself, and is a total dick. The other Iranian gods were also paired with Greek gods with predictable inconsistencies, though none as bad as the Ahura Mazda/Zeus issue.
- It's not even that simple. The Iranian religion was (and actually still is) monotheistic, and actually considered Ahura Mazda to be THE god and Angra Mainyu to be a sort of Satan figure who torments sinners - making the weird Greek attempt to assimilate their "gods" even more bizarre. The other Zoroastrian "gods" you're referring to were more aptly comparable to angels (the Spenta Mainyu, for example), and they even had a Messiah figure like Jesus, Mithra (who of course became bastardized in the Roman pantheon), a sort of angelic reflection of Ahuramazda. Otherwise, you're essentially correct - Ahura Mazda is a classical "good, omnibenevolent, loving" god and Zeus is more of a Jerkass who only really gives a shit about himself.
- Interestingly, they got it quite right. The mythologies of the Greeks, Romans, Germans, Balts, and Slavs were derived from the mythology of their Indo-European-speaking ancestors who lived on the shores of the Black Sea over 6,000 years ago. Hindu mythology is also derived from the same stock (mixed liberally with the native Dravidian tradition), while the Zoroastrian (i.e. Iranian) Spentas and Daevas directly correspond to similar figures of Hinduism...but flipped around so that the Devas of Hinduism are "evil", and the Asuras are "good".
- Something very much like the interpretatio graeca mentioned above happens today day with African animist religions. For example, Mami Wata
is a modern syncretism of a variety of local female water and love spirits.
The first part of the Mythology and Religion is biased against Christianity. There are in fact Jewish-Christians who will very justifiably argue the Christian interpretations are correct, and it's Rabbinic/Talmudic Judaism that has corrupted things.
What's annoying to me is there are gods who work much better then the ones they typically choose (Though still flawed), if they actually did the research. Example, for Egyptian Mythology Apep makes works better then Set (Who is closer to a Nimrod or Herod or Antichrist figure really) or Anubis. I could write a story making Set The Dragon to Apep as the Big Bad, or as a Big Bad to Apep as the Bigger Bad.
For Greeks the irony is The Bible does explicitly give the name Hades to a distinctly separate figure (Calling him a Ally of Satan as this page does is an oversimplification). Greek mythology actually has an entity called Ophion (Literally Serpent) that Zeus overthrows before he even fights the Titans.
For the Norse, Nidhogg works a little better then Loki or the other one they sometimes choose.
Edited by MithrandirOlorin
Lost in Space
I'm trope repairing this, because it's about 75% natter and my instict is to chainsaw the whole thing. Need some more opinions.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
In terms of the Marvel Universe and Norse mythology being Hijacked by Jesus: it's stated the Loki killed Baldr; technically this isn't true: there are 3 sources of the myth and in only one of them (the Prose Edda) is Loki responsible for putting the mistletoe spear in Hodr's hands. One of the myths (in Gesta Danorum) doesn't even mention Loki.
Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Hijacked by Natter
, started by Fighteer on Jun 8th 2011 at 3:52:53 PM
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman