A Hanged Man
This post is an explanation of an example for troper Az_Tech341, who will hopefully contribute to this thread instead of continuing their discussion via edit notes.
They have an issue understanding the following example:
- Part of Rita Repulsa's Adaptational Badass in Power Rangers (2017) involved being a member of a past team of Power Rangers that she turned on and wiped out but for Zordon, who, in the face of defeat, chose to call a meteor down on his own location and try to catch her in the blast radius. The fact that she was strong enough to take down a full Ranger team on her own increases the urgency of the new team's training when she re-emerges, as Zordon's surviving consciousness is perfectly aware of what she's capable of and knows the new Rangers have to be as strong as possible to survive against her, let alone stop her from conquering the world.
Az_Tech341 asked, "what evil did they conquer?" I'm not sure whom they were referring to with "they," or why confusion over such a detail would necessitate eliminating an entire example, but: if this was meant in reference to the original team of Power Rangers, then we don't know too much about them or their exploits, but the fact that Repulsa felt the need to eliminate them to support her goal of conquering the world gives a clear indication that they were the kind of people who would be a threat to her evil. This assumption is supported by the fact that the new team, aided by one of the original members, makes it their goal to stop her; if the Power Rangers weren't the sort of people who fight evil, why would they be concerned with keeping her from conquering the world? The Power Rangers, by being positioned as antagonistic to villainous goals, are shown to be heroes, which would make their deaths qualify their killer as this trope.
All of this can be inferred pretty easily from the context supplied in the example, so I don't see a need to remove it from the page. If Az_Tech341 feels it should be improved but is unwilling to do so themselves, or is still confused, they are free to voice their concerns here and we can work on a better draft.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
Since most examples of this trope on pages tend to go toward "person who kills heroes" rather than "person who makes heroes too terrified to do much," should a better name be Heroism Killer?
Keep in mind I'm not sure how to take a trope to the repair shop.
Infinite Ideas, Zero Good.
Regarding this Homestuck entry:
- Lord English decides that killing main characters just isn't enough, and goes on to kill the author of Homestuck. Then for an encore, he kills an entire dreambubble's worth of already dead ghosts (including the alternate dead John that Vriska dated and at least one dead Dave,) making them Deader than Dead. Meanwhile his past self, Caliborn succeeds in organizing the death of his split personality, Calliope, allowing him full control of his body.
Doesn't fitting this trope involve actually encountering a hero (which English has not done yet)? Let's face it: He may represent the author, but in-comic Hussie's still an incredibly minor character. Definitely no "hero" by any standards. And English may be able to kill ghosts, but the only victims were a bunch of clones with no distinction between themselves and their still-out-there alpha timelines selves (and other clones who were not killed).
Maybe this is just my bias against people blowing his kills way out of proportion but shooting a comic relief, blasting Living Prop clones, and then not appearing in person (as LE) for over a thousand pages doesn't exactly sound like evidence that the heroes are in any real danger. Especially since, again, he has not only never fought an actual protagonist yet (instead relying on doing-things-you-wouldn't-think-were-possibly), but never even encountered one. So we don't know if he fits the part about the heroes trying to get the hell away from him. He sounds more like The Dreaded alone, which this is a specific subtrope of.
I write stupid crap about naked people.
Can a character still be a Hero Killer if he/she doesn't actually kill anyone but still strikes fear into the hearts of experienced heroes?
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No, I believe that's The Dreaded. So I think I'll be removing the MLP example in the Western Animation folder.
I don't see why not. As long as the heroes are terrified of him/her and the terror is caused by his/her ability to kick ass I'd say it counts.
Just by reading the description, I had the impression that any terrifying evil badass who it's made plain to both the characters and the audience that the hero wouldn't walk away alive from a no holds barred battle with would qualify. To use an example of someone I'd consider to be a Hero Killer who never actually killed the hero- the only reason Batman lives through his first fight with Bane in Dark Knight Rises is because Bane wants him alive.
''All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us..."
You know, I think we need a new trope to identify villains who are inherently badass, but aren't necessarily hero killers.
I.e. you probably won't die facing them, but it's going to be a tough fight and you very likely will be feeling it in the morning. The audience sees them and knows that there's going to be an epic fight, even if there's no permanent danger to the heroes.
I propose we call it 'Putting the Bad in Badass'
Can we please find a better page quote? Not only is the formatting painful to look at, it doesn't sum up the trope in the way a good page quote should, and it loses all meaning if you aren't already familiar the character.
I think the title should be changed. Hero Killer sounds like a pretty inadequate term for the attributes this trope describes. I thought it would be about something like a villain who actively hunts down heroes- Grevious, for instance, is dedicated to hunting down Jedi- not one who simpy strikes terror into their hearts. That means that a lot of characters on this list not only don't kill heroes, but some are'nt even trying to, and might be competely indifferent, or even reluctant to hurt them in the first place.
I think we need a new name.
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Take it to Trope Repair Shop, then.
What's precedent ever done for us?
Would defeating the hero killer count as baddass decay, the Worf effect or crowning moment of awasome?
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It could count as any and all of those, depending on the nature of the defeat.
What's precedent ever done for us?
To be more specific: it's badass decay if the hero killer only loses because it doesn't fight at it's usual power level (especially if it loses to a hero it's beaten in the past who doesn't use different tactics than they did in the first fight); it's a crowning moment of awesome if the hero beats the hero killer by using excellent tactics or putting in extreme effort (i.e., by being awesome) even though the killer fights at its usual power level; it's the Worf effect if the hero killer starts losing fights just to prove how badass the person beating it is. For the record, I'm pretty sure the reference to invoking the Worf effect in the entry is intended to mean that the hero killer takes advantage of the Worf effect by smacking down powerful but not A-list heroes to prove how tough it is. The hero killer can certainly become a victim of the Worf effect, but I don't think that was the intent of the entry.
Previous Trope Repair Shop thread: Misused
, started by Leaper on Nov 11th 2014 at 10:11:02 AM
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman