Discussion Main / Flanderization

I created the trope, it is somewhat similar with Flanderization, but with physical appearance, it's called the layerization (because I add layers and redraw many time), the definition is when a cartoon characters used to be poorly made and that now he became better animated! Here the tutorial : https://youtu.be/91l_ZsGquN4?si=6ZX79FQglmsujuxM

From the Discworld section:

• Over the course of the series, Veternari sheds more and more of his weaknesses until by Snuff he is an all-powerful, all-seeing, all-knowing demigod whose only real character trait is "Always right", with it becoming a rule in-universe that nobody could ever replace him. This coincided with him becoming Pratchett's most obvious mouthpiece.

Vetinari has two scenes in Snuff, and spends much of the second one saying "Okay, so that was a thing I couldn't have predicted and had no control over". I'm pretty sure Practchett's most obvious mouthpiece continues to be Vimes.

Previous Trope Repair Shop thread: Complaining, started by Ghilz on May 3rd 2014 at 7:26:46 AM

This page currently says, "If you look at the Beatles solo careers one quickly realizes that none of the individual members were able to have a successful solo career, except for Paul ..."

That seems to be applying an unusually high standard for what constitutes a "successful" solo career.

Since Flanderization is a trope about one trait consuming the character over time, what's the trope where the character starts on the final stage of flanderization (like in the image on the trope page)?

Is there really any evidence for Ron Weasley becoming Flanderized in the books (the movies, yes, both compared to the books and through the films themselves, at least until Deathly Hallows)? It's more like he matures more slowly than Harry and Hermione (which is understandable, he's neither a supergenius nor does he have the weight of the world on his shoulders), and he's insensitive, but calling him a dumbass is more of a fanon Flanderization than anything. He's less motiviated, but whenever he's actually helping out he's always fairly competent (after he returns in Deathly Hallows and is free from the Horcrux influence, I can't think of any fuckups on his part—hell, it's acknowledged that he actually takes the lead for awhile when Harry's brooding over the Hallows)

Why is it now called "Flande Rization" with the odd capitalization and break as if it were two words? Even the main article treats "Flanderization" as a single term. It kind of ruins the pun to break it up like that.

Most of the time when Flanderization happens to a character, he usually becomes hated by the audience or becomes a Base Breaker. What examples are there of Flanderization making the character more likable to fans?

Who came up with the word "Flanderization"? I know that it's named from the Simpsons, but who exactly came up with that word?

I thought of a term, "fanderization," for instances where characters are effectively flanderized by people talking about them in fandom. A typical discussion about Superman vs Batman makes it sound like the former's SOP is, "I know you raped and murdered that nun, but I think you should stop what you're doing and sign up for classes at the local community college," and the later is, "YOU'RE OVERDUE ON YOUR LIBRARY BOOKS!!! I'M GONNA BUST YOUR CLAVICLE AND FEED YOUR KNEECAPS TO THE CHEETAH AT THE ZOO!!!" You know, they exaggerate the differences between characters beyond recognition, usually to make a tired point.

Is there already a term for this kind of thing?

How to differentiate between flanderization and simple character development?

Sometimes people do change over time even in real life. Some aspect of them may get more and more prominent. For example someone could get more and more obsessed with something, or more and more disillusioned with life, as time passes. This does happen in real life, and it sometimes happens in fiction intentionally, as part of character development.

In some cases it can be hard to distinguish within a long-running show. One example that comes to mind is Gregory House from his eponymous series: In the first season he was relatively reasonable and treated his employees with some respect. The worst thing he did was bickering with Cuddy. Somewhere by the later seasons he had become quite a lot more bitter and outright mean, especially towards his employees, constantly trying to humiliate them or play mind games with them. (Also, he seemed to be less and less interested in the actual premise of the show, ie. medical mysteries, and more interested in creating drama with his employees, bosses and colleagues.)

One could argue that this is a case of flanderization. However, one could equally well argue that this is character development, and not something completely unthinkable from a character like House: He just grew more and more bitter over the years, and his focus shifted from one thing (medical mysteries) to another (making people's life a hell.)

What is the opposite effect called? For example, in the early episodes of the original 90210, there was clear character differentiation, especially in David, who was an un-cool outsider kid, spurned by the main gang. Steve was a bit of a thug, I recall. But as the show goes on, the differences between the characters disappear, and they become clones of each other, one homogeneous lump. Is there a Trope for this?

Where has the western animation page gone? Surely there was an entry for the simpsons at one point?

Does anyone think the Real Life Section should be cut??? I think this trope only works in fiction

Why has the tvtropes catagory suddenly dissapeared?

I am a tad irked to fond Phineas on this list. He doesn't seem any different than he did in,say, "Candace Loses Her Head".

I really think the Fan Fic examples should be taken out as they are generalised and very opinionated. Perhaps later on they can be put back in but for now they just make the page less informative.

If nobody disagrees with me by Friday, I'll remove them.

I've made my thoughts about the long list of Flanderized Tropes above, but I see it's been moved from a subpage back into the main page.

Leaving aside the earlier debate (which I still think is valid), surely if anything's worthy of putting on a sub-page, it's that? Whatever else can be said about it, it's massive and it takes up half the friggin' page for goodness sake.

Posted in the Western Animation Flanderization discussion, but I thought I'd ask it here (My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic):

OK, so it's possible that Big Macintosh has been Flanderized, but it's also entirely possible that it's an aspect of his character that we haven't seen. I would like to keep the original possibility of him being Flanderized while also presenting the possibility that this is just an aspect of his character. I added this in:

• To be fair, though, he's only seen talking to Applejack. When Twilight Sparkle is around, he only has one line. In many of his other appearances, he's around the residents of Ponyville. It's entirely possible that this is the reason why he doesn't speak much (he's uncomfortable doing it around people he is unfamiliar with).

But it was removed by Komodin for being natter (though I maintain that it is not, as this is how I present two possibilities when it is entirely my work, not just as an addendum to others'). Any suggestions on how I could edit it to present both without it getting removed for being natter?

The name isn't very indicative. I wouldn't rename it for the world, of course, but I'm thinking of adding a redirect with a clearer name. Is something like Personality Conquering Quirk or Character Conquering Quirk all right, or just confusing?

Is it just me, or does the lengthy list of tropes which seem to have become flanderized (according to the person who added it, of course) itself appear to have become flanderized? It seems to have become just an excuse for people to bitch about tropes or trope pages they don't happen to like very much.

The other points in the 'TV Tropes' section seem fair enough, but do we really need the list? It takes up half the page, after all. And if the problems with these tropes are really that bad, it's a matter for Trope Repair Shop, surely?

Left 4 Dead 2:

I cut this bit out since it IS about completely different characters rather than strict flanderization, and even the fake-flanderization argument doesn't really hold in all cases. However, since it's a lot of text, holding it here in case someone wants it back.

• Although they're technically different characters, the four survivors in Left 4 Dead 2 could be considered Flanderizations of the personalities of the original four survivors:
  • Francis in the first game was shown to be a Jerk with a Heart of Gold, who acted tough and rude but was actually a sensitive guy with a genuine interest in the safety of his companions for reasons other than his own survival. Nick, his replacement in 2, throws out the "Facade" part of Francis' Jerkass Façade, very obviously caring only about himself and generally being a total scumbag, lacking Francis' redeeming good side.
  • Louis was an optimistic Everyman who the others thought might be slightly detached from reality because of his seemingly perpetually optimistic outlook on the whole Zombie Apocalypse situation; he actually was fully aware of what was going on - he was just confusingly lighthearted about it. Ellis, his replacement in 2, is a total Cloud Cuckoolander / The Ditz who genuinely doesn't grasp the severity of the situation because he's not intelligent enough to be capable of doing so.
  • Bill was a Vietnam War veteran who worked well under the pressure he faced in the apocalypse, managing to stay calm for the most part, but still became quite impatient and short-tempered at times because he really wanted to get everyone to safety ASAP, due to a sort of fatherly instinct. Coach, his replacement in 2, keeps Bill's short temper, but is otherwise just a generic Scary Black Man who doesn't seem to demonstrate the "fatherly instinct" aspect that made Bill an important and likable part of the team.
  • Zoey was a definite Action Girl, very Genre Savvy after having watched loads of zombie movies and fully capable in the apocalyptic world. Rochelle, her replacement in 2, lacks the "Action" part, instead being consigned to nothing beyond the role of The Chick / token female in the group and being widely regarded as a Replacement Scrappy.

Under Mahou Sensei Negima:

• This one got explained. She started using a demon sword that's possessing her.

Pulled this, because she was only shown with the sword at a very late stage. She was seriously freaky even before then.

Why is this Subjective? It gives a definition of the term, why it might be bad, and why it might be good. Sounds like every other trope page.

I associate hippies with dirt, free love and smoking pot. What exactly is "clean living" about that?

Can someone describe the Pokémon entry a little better and concise than "collection of running gags"?