Naruto:
I don't know if it's me but the discussion that is there about the genocide of the Uchiha clan is slightly creepy. I find worrying the large number of uses of the word "necessary" in there.
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Totes, it's one of the reasons I stopped reading the comic back then.
If you do drugs... Don't to roshnah!!
No idea if this is even an example due to the arguing. If somebody could either confirm or deny, that'd be great. If it's an example, a small write-up that makes sense would be appreciated.
- There's a certain SF film out there (not sarcastic, just don't know the name) about humanity having killed off an entire species for being Always Chaotic Evil with fire. This is downplayed, and the humans are depicted as bastards, as they really didn't have any reason to go on that planet and "clean it" of its creatures, which were presented as alternate dinosaurs minding their own business. This backfires on one of the least deserving characters, as he loses his family to one of those surviving creatures, and transports it in Earth's history... for some reason... that a ship commissioned to a mere soldier could even go accidentally back into the past... well, the hero wins and he has a new family there, so everything ends well for him and humanity.
- You're talking about Outlander. And if you watched the movie a bit better, the humans on Earth were just an abandoned seed colony of the Outlanders, the Outlander humans with the spaceships were the real humanity out there in the stars.
I think there should be a way of rewriting the Biblical examples so that it doesn't look like a big anti-religious thing from the way they're described.
Fly High, Seek Peace
It would be nice if someone who has watched Outlander would fix that example so that it's not a discussion with two contradicting points. (This is a wiki; if you see an error, correct it, don't add text explaining why it was wrong. Same for omissions such as of the name in this case.) I can't do it, not having seen the movie and not really wanting to even try to carefully read the current text to see what it amounts to because I might watch the movie some day. For all I know, the two points might also contradict each other to such an extent that the whole example needs to be removed, but, again, I'm not the one to judge that. All I know is that the example is not written in a good format.
I just question the relevance of this trope when Genocide Dilemma already exists.
Also, humans destroyed a single starship in Titan AE. Can a single military detachment that's in the process of trying to kill you really be considered genocide?
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It was a long time since I saw that movie. The way I remember it, it was an armada containing the bulk of the Drej species. If there was a single mothership, then it was of the worldship kind.
What the Drej did to the humans at the beginning of the move is a solid example of this trope. The second example is more ambiguous regarding what really happened and why.
Interestingly enough, I don't have the same problem with the ending of Independence Day, in spite of them being similar in many ways. The difference to me is that Independence Day is clear-cut self-defence, while Titan AE has a huge element of "Oh, this machine would be really useful, but we need a power source first. Oh, look, there's a species we can canibalize, lets eat all their souls and laugh about it". I mean, seriously? Why not make lampshades out of their skins too, while we are at it? Oh, right, they didn't have skin.
Anyway, most of the examples of this trope does not in any way overlap with Genocide Dilemma, and I definitely think both tropes are useful. Genocide Dilemma should be restricted to cases that are a dilemma to the characters, and include cases where they chose NOT to plan or carry out any Final Solution.
This "trope" is little more than an excuse for a massive Take That! against traditional religious believers and social conservatives. It has practically nothing to do with fiction and a great deal to do with a personal agenda. It is also written in substandard English, with numerous grammatical, syntactical, and spelling errors.
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Huh, what now?
The spelling errors, I really need to get a browser with english spell-checking again. English is not my first language, I'm swedish.
As for grammar and syntax, uh, sorry? I'll try to improve it over time, suggestions are welcome.
More importantly, no. This trope does not have any special aim against conservatives, religious or otherwise. I don't know of any contemporary conservatives who think that extermination of human races is a good practical solution to any problem whatsoever. Do you?
I don't count the president of Iran a "conservative", I file him under "fascist rightwing extremist antisemitic lunatic". And even HE doesn't openly argue for unprovoked nukelar war against Israel, as far as I know he only make threats of the "If you destroy us, we'll take them with us" kind.
Anyway, maybe we should add a "no real life examples please", just in case. We don't want THIS debate on the main page, lol.
This trope is not primarily a Take That! at all, but yeah - while not aimed as you believe, it sure does have an element of Take That! in it. This Take That! is aimed in three directions:
- Titan AE: I liked this movie, but it creeped me out that a lot of my friends considered the ending an unambigously happy ending. I mean, what the &%ยค#? All the hero does is pushing the button that might as well have been labeled "Genocide Mode Enabeled", exterminating the Drej. No Genocide Dilemma, no nothing, just a celebration of the extermination of a "Always Chaotic Evil race. In my eyes this is made even worse by the fact that ge genocide mode button was there all along - showing that the Drej had been acted in selfdefense all along - this doesn't excuse their methods, but it still recasts the entire storyline in a completely different light. I wanted to add a trope about that ever since I joined TV Tropes. The trope "Genocide Mode Enabeled" has been on my to-do-list forever, but it felt like a weak trope so I never started it. Might still get around to it some day.
- ALL media that plays A Million Is a Statistic in this particular way. I believe that this is particularry common in older media, since WWII was what made the trope fall out of favor in the first place. Which reminds me of the Jonathan Swift examples. Thanks!
- The idea that Those Wacky Nazis have a monopoly on exterminating people. Some people seem to have the idea that if it's done by anyone else, then it somehow doesn't count.
So, moving on to improving the trope. And getting an english browser. My apologies for all and any spelling errors in this post. :-)
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