He Of Biscuity Goodness
This is one of the absolute worst-named tropes on this site.
The name "Everyone is Jesus in Purgatory" gives the reader exactly ZERO information, not even the slightest hint, as to what the trope is about. Is it suggesting that... in purgatory, everyone would have the morals of Jesus Christ? Or is it some kind of comment on the hypocrisy of the moralizing engaged in by organized religion?
No, of course not, it's a trope about over-analyzing story details and ascribing meaning where none was intended. Well gee, that was SO CLEAR from the title, how could I have failed to guess what this trope was about so completely?
I mean really, I have been a lurker on this site for about fifteen years and I literally had no idea what this trope was about until I finally worked up the motivation to actually click on it today.
A clearer title couldn't have been chosen? "Over-analyzing"? "English Teacher Syndrome"? I mean c'mon.
I like pie. Hide / Show Replies
You can send it through the Trope Repair Shop once it opens up if you think it should be renamed
Edited by Khoshekh6
Previous Trope Repair Shop thread: Misused
, started by v-n-n-n-n on Sep 4th 2017 at 2:22:30 PM
What's the difference between this and Faux Symbolism?
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Everyone Is Jesus in Purgatory: Audiences think this work is symbolic, even if the author didn't intend it. Faux Symbolism: The author intended the symbolism, but to... questionable effect.
Edited by 156.33.241.9 Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
- Everyone Is Jesus in Purgatory: Audience reads messages in the work (whether they exist or not).
- Faux Symbolism: Attempts at symbolism that don't work.
- There are anti Homestuck blogs on there that have theorized that it's really about satanists and kids trying to reach the level of god. Half of that is technically true:
- The creation of the universe
- Kids trying to become gods
- Resurrection as gods
Okay, I'm tempted to put it on Everyone Is Satan in Hell (which is where it more appropriately falls into), but the "technically true" part...I don't know. Three votes and I'll add it.
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I'd be inclined to say it's a mix, but it seems more of this than Everyone Is Satan in Hell, so put it here but mention how it crosses over.
I should point out I myself am neither a fan nor a hater of Homestuck, but does seem to be based more on symbolism than anything being flat out read as Satanic, as one might say of works that have distinctly biblical referrences.
"Did you expect somebody else?"
There is no such thing as a "technical truth". It's either yes or no. I vote for either fixing the ambiguous part, or just zapping the whole entry to prevent it from becoming natter bait.
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The title of this trope is a little confusing, and it makes it seem like it's always about religion when really it could be about politics, race, or just about anything. Do you think we could change the title to something like "Overanalysis"?
Edited by VanHohenheimOfXerxes Hide / Show Replies
Well, maybe, but in this case the title is an example of how it (seemingly) is most commonly done - allegories are everywhere, such that the author never intended, and they're usually religious in nature. Politics or anything else hot-button could fall in too, but most often, you here how your favorite cartoon was a metaphor for the constant threat of temptation and the importance of Jesus Christ...instead of just, you know, Superman saving the day.
The Dream Soldier
Yugi Mutou kinda seems to fit this as he has risked his life more than once to protect his friends.
This is Rain. Isn't she pretty? :)
I'm thinking about adding this one:
- In one footnote-y Square Root of Minus Garfield strip, it's parodied.
The title is very, very confusing.
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them.
True False Prophet
I like to make a game out of this trope. Someone points to a random object and you have to improvise a snooty art critic Everyone Is Jesus in Purgatory interpretation of it on the spot. And it has to at least make a little bit of sense. You can't just say everything is a metaphor for sex or death or whatever (unless that kinda fits). Its fun. It would probably be even more fun drunk, but I don't drink, so I'll never know.
Edited by BrokenEye If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is
Wow This is an interesting trope. This is the fist time I have seen the page, yet I had heard of it before. I wonder whether it is best to take things in a story more literally. I like blue, and it is the favorite color of many people. That doesn't mean we are prone to depression. I stuffered English classes, where we have to interpret stuff. Picking up on tropes is just fine. It is overdone when nitty gritty things like syntax are overanaylized. I had a hard time because things needed to be explained to the point of repetittion, and I couldn't get thourough enough. I had easier time in science and calculus classes. Algebra is a peice of cake compared to the tougher English classes I had to endure.
I learned about the negative effects of overanalysis, while learning about the Beatles. The trope page covered it very well. I like the quote: The Beatles get this a lot. The main points were adressesed. Many songs, particularly on the St. Pepper album, are all about drugs. Charles Manson thought the White Album was about a revolution or something, and then murdered. (That is one of the most disturbing examples.) John Lennon wrote "I am the Walrus" in order to confuse people, who try to analyze songs to much.
My pet peeve is Paul Mc Cartney. In real life, he was a really wonderful guy, and still is. Don't get me wrong. I just don't like the idea that he died and was replaced. It is too sad. There are two things that help me dismiss this bogus idea. One is that Paul looks idendical before and after the death. His change of appearence over time is even much lower that that of the other three Beatles. The other thing is the unofficial album, Yesterday and Today. It is riddeled with clues, but it was realeased before Paul's death sopposedly happened. If that is bogus, than the other clues are.
I do like the take of the Beatles in Yellow Submarine. It is one thing to be an incredibly famous rock band. It is quite another to use thier message of love to save the world and convert the bad guys. Sure that is what literally happend in the movie. Yet I have fun imagining the whole Real life history of the Beatles this way. Onveranalysing things will lose accuracy or closeness of the artist's intention. The upside of it is that it can be enjoyable.
The trope seems to be for seeing symbolism that isn't there in the work, but then the examples are things like "X-men being a symbol for racism" which it... is, and has intentionally been portrayed as for decades. I'm not really sure what the point of this trope is supposed to be, aside from "lots and lots of people really hated English class in high school."
Edited by fifthfiend Hide / Show Replies
"I'm not really sure what the point of this trope is supposed to be, aside from "lots and lots of people really hated English class in high school." I agree. I think there also are some misunderstandings there as to what symbolism and literary criticism actually entail. For instance, with regards to Dracula, I don't think there's any serious academic contending that actually, Bram Stoker rolled up his sleeves one day and said to himself: "I'm going to write a novel about capitalism/female sexuality/empire disguised as a blood-sucking monster", or denying that Dracula is indeed a rollincking story about a blood-sucking monster and that that's a huge part of its appeal. What they're doing, presumably, is note that there are certain common, ahem, tropes in the way Stoker writes about Dracula and the way, say, other writers, scholars, scientists, politicians, journalists etc. wrote about empire/capitalism/sexuality etc. That's really not the same as claiming that "Dracula symbolises that", and definitely not the same as saying "Bram Stoker meant for this to symbolise that".
sdmitch16
There should be a page for every trope about its trope namer, former namer, codifier, potential codifier, and Ur example if they can be identified.
Will I be informed if people reply to my discussion post?
because everyone has sinned, and jesus is everyone, hence, purgatory. It's right there in the name.
Edited by thatonedude
I know it's a minor point, but in Freudian psychology, the term is unconscious, not subconscious. Subconscious refers to memories that are not currently in our awareness, but are capable of being drawn into awareness. Some people find the term 'unconscious' odd, as it seems to imply being 'knocked out'. But the term is meant to imply this sort of lack of capability of being in our awareness. Some elements of the unconscious are biological, meaning that they could never be in our conscious. If you need a citation I can provide it, but as for my creds, I'm a Rutgers trained psychologist.
Does this page enforce anybody else's belief in the 'author is dead' theory?
To clarify, because I realized it might be vague. This isn't saying that Fan Dumb isn't rampant and people read much too deeply into things. But this troper has been to many a panel, and found that there are a lot of times where the creator has no real idea what they put into their work. A creator saying "X has no meaning" or "X means Y" isn't enough to stop discussion.
Edited by 24.12.150.209
Fringe:
You should talk about Fringe in this topic. Go read some forums on the show : I never saw that much crackpot theories and seeing symbolism under every box of cereals. Really. I even think its going to surpass Lost in the accumulation of trying to see something that isn't there. Of course Abrams plays with it extensively and hide some deeper meaning in things that looks meaningless, but fans try to see a symbol everywhere, and that's just funny.
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You do realize that you can just add the example yourself, right?
The Philosopher-King Paradox
Yeah but I'm hugely lazy, more seriously I couldn't provide real sourced examples, I mostly skimmed over some forum and I thought if added it should be seriously done with examples by someone who's into forums way more than me.
"The first book of The Company Novels is called In the Garden of Iden, …"
I thought the name was an allusion to the Norse goddess Idun, who kept the apples of immortality! (Iden's garden contained, iirc, the last known specimen of a plant with medicinal value.)