'''[REDACTED]'''
I pulled this Natter from the Real Life section, but I thought it was an interesting discussion:
- The security council of the UN has the 5 traditional nuclear powers with veto powers that can prevent any action. Thus, by having a nuke, you too can help set world policy.
- If you were on the winning side of World War II.
- It made sense when the UN was set up, in the 1940s, when Britain and France controlled all of Africa and much of Asia. Nowadays? Not so much. (Though the British and French armies are still the only ones in the EU with any real ability to project power.)
- More precisely, UK and France still have the third and fourth
biggest military budgets, and so, they are still able to lay waste to most countries in the world should their public opinion get pissed enough.
- And this time, they have German factories on their side. Important to note: they probably wouldn't have the Bundeswehr unless Germany had actually been attacked; World War II gave the Germans a collective allergy to war. (This, incidentally, is one of the two primary arguments against Germany's receiving a permanent seat on the Council—Council members must be able and willing to project power to enforce Council decisions. The other reason is that Europe is overrepresented.)
- It's not an issue of military budgets but of capability to project power worldwide which is actually extremely rare and something only a very few countries have, including the United States, France and Britain. China, which has a military budget which dwarfs that of the two European powers, does not have this capability as it lacks a blue water navy (ie a navy capable of transporting its military around the world and defending them).
- More precisely, UK and France still have the third and fourth
- It made sense when the UN was set up, in the 1940s, when Britain and France controlled all of Africa and much of Asia. Nowadays? Not so much. (Though the British and French armies are still the only ones in the EU with any real ability to project power.)
- If you were on the winning side of World War II.
Wicks to the old definition of Appeal to Force
- Appeal to Fear
- Appeal To Force
- Appeal to Force
- Appeal to Force
- Firefly
- Keychain of Creation
- Let the Bully Win
- Logical Fallacies
- Logic Tropes
- Mass Effect Races
- Might Makes Right
- Nineteen Eighty-Four
- Screw the Rules, I Have a Nuke!
- Screw the Rules, I Make Them!
- The Legend of Korra - Allies
- 2 + Torture = 5
- Vexxarr
Argument or threat?
I was thinking of editing this to make clear the different between an invalid argument and a threat. However, I cannot say for certain if a threat can be called an Appeal To Force fallacy. A threat isn't technically an argument, but the 'Appeal To Force' label is often applied to both.
Can someone tell me, for certain, whether or not the threat 'Do/ say this, because I will hurt you if you don't' is an example of Appeal To Force?
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If a threat can be called Appeal To Force, I would add the following edit:
================ It is important to note the distinction between a faulty argument and a treat in these cases. Appeal to Force may apply to both.
- "A is true, because if you say it isn't I'll break your nose," is an invalid argument.
- "I'll break your nose if you say A is true," is a threat, not an argument; the speaker is not actually claiming that A is true or false.
- "Do as I say, because I will hurt you if you don't" is an instruction and a threat, rather than an argument.
If Appeal to Force can only be applied to actual arguments rather than threats (which is the case with most other examples in this index), I would add this edit instead:
========================== It is important to note the distinction between an invalid argument and a treat in these cases. Appeal to Force can only apply to arguments.
- "A is true, because if you say it isn't I'll break your nose," is an invalid Appeal to Force argument.
- "I'll break your nose if you say A is true," is a threat, not an argument; the speaker is not actually claiming that A is true or false.
- "Do as I say, because I will hurt you if you don't" is an instruction and a threat, rather than an argument.
Previous Trope Repair Shop thread: Really a Useful Note
, started by spacemarine50 on Jul 28th 2012 at 8:15:39 AM
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman