Discussion Main / AlwaysChaoticEvil

I pulled this from the The Order of the Stick examples:

• Ghost seem to be an aversion (in spite of what the Monster Manual says), since they seem pretty much like they were in life.

I'm not sure we've actually seen any ghosts in D&D terms. Redcloak's assessment of the "ghost-martyrs" of the Sapphire Guard is "Actually ... I don't think they ARE ghosts. I don't even think they're undead. They look like some kind of positive-energy spirit, possibly homebrewed or cribbed off another campaign". Something similar probably goes for Eugene, since the concept of a spirit advisor that can move between the Prime Material and the outer edge of the Upper Planes, but can only offer advice rather than having any offensive capabilities, doesn't really fit the ghost template.

Edited by DaibhidC

Previous Trope Repair Shop thread: Ambiguous Name, started by Monsund on May 31st 2017 at 8:47:47 PM

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Sorry but this example is wrong: "Surprisingly averted by Immortan Joe's War Boys in Mad Max: Fury Road. Despite being the Ax-Crazy, fanatical mooks of the story's main villain, they are shown to be just as much his victims as the heroic Wives, and all it takes is a few glimpses of genuine kindness to give one of them a Heel–Face Turn."

The page's description make clear that the trope is always about races, the Mad Max example is not only a suberted example, is not about a different races, just about a group of humans.

There are several entries in here that focus on what are basically 'evil spirits' and 'demons', such as the Sha and the Soulless. They're not really sentient and they're basically drones of a much bigger evil, so do they really count as a race?

I think that Tolkien's Uruk Hai out to be mentioned here as not falling into this trope. The Uruk Hai are actually Lawful Evil. They were also invented by Tolkien specifically answering the concept of orcs are Always Chaotic Evil. Tolkien was going to describe orcs as 'unredeemable' but realized that would not be allowed in the universe he had created (His character, Eru, creator of Arda, would not allow it). Instead they were labeled 'almost unredeemable' and he invented a race of orcs with redeeming qualities, the Uruk Hai. Lawfulness, loyalty, sacrifice, empathy, dutiful, strong willfulness even a bit of honor. Some of Sauron's Uruk Hai (actually called Black Uruks, distinct from Saruman's Uruks) defected to serve Saruman. Some see this as a unredeeming action on their part. But remember that Orcs served Sauron out of fear. For the Black Uruks to defect required discernment to see Saruman as a better alternative and a bit courage to defy Sauron.

Found the following, which would probably be an example, but which I removed because it's missing something vital:

"vicious colonizers, they eat any sentients they come across and breed the survivors like cattle — instead of using, say, cattle, which are surely easier to control and fight back less. The game's creators wanted an enemy that was simply an enemy for emnity's sake, who could not be negotiated with or sympathized with, and against whom genocide was a sympathetic option; and they got just that in the David Weber/Steven White novels based on the game."

...I think it might be about something called Arachnids or something from a game called Star Fire (or Starfire), but I don't actually know, so I don't dare to write that in. If someone knows, please complete it and put it back.

Edited by VVK

Are viruses an example? Both in real life and in machines, viruses do nothing but evil, but it borders on a real life example, so I'm asking if it's ok to put on the page (or if I am wrong about viruses).

Edited by Smasher Hide / Show Replies

• From a real mouse's point of view, real rats would be Always Chaotic Evil, as they're quite happy to kill and eat mice.
  • That would make orcas Always Chaotic Evil in regards to dolphins, because they also eat them... But dolphins despite their playful friendly rep are among the biggest douchebags of the animal kingdom... Outch, my head hurts.

Predators are not evil just before they eat prey, even by the most open definition. That's plain old True Neutral. Though dolphins' rape-based, murderous culture might qualify if you think they're smart enough.

I think the "chaotic" in "Always Chaotic Evil" is unfair. You can have some very heroic Chaotic Good people, like Drizzt Do'Urdan, Han Solo and Robin Hood, and Lovable Rogue's like Jack Sparrow. It's an unfair biase to say that Chaos is worse than Law, when they are two sides of the same coin. Chaotic Evil people may be the most dangerous alignment, but they're aren't always the most evil; their evilness is often more a result of psychoticness or mental illness than actual evil. You can also have some incredibly evil Lawful Evil or Neutral Evil people.

I propose a change of the trope's name to "Always Evil" instead. Or "Always Neutral Evil", if we need a Character Alignment that badly (we don't anyway, due to the wiki's policy of no alignment examples), due to it being described as the "asshole alignment". Or we could have "Racially Always Evil", due to the trope being about a generally evil race. Check the discussion for the Always Lawful Good while you're at it, too. "Sounding cool" doesn't justify it.

Edited by DJMarred I am the lone wolf. I do not lead or follow. Hide / Show Replies

I cant find tropes for Always Chotic Good = Huflepuff nor Always Lawfl Evil = Ravenclaw.

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