Yeah, it didn't seem that bad to me either (hardly the best, of course, but not horrible). I find it a bit hard to understand why the series gets so much hate actually. A lot of the criticisms I've seen seem like nitpicks, and aren't much different from what most fantasy suffers from. The movie though wasn't that good true (particularly the ending).
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.-Philip K. Dick
I just would like to point out this page has some entries that contradict each others (such as Downer Ending and Bittersweent Ending) or aren't exactly subjective our explained (what exactly make Eragon an Idiot Hero?). Could someone solve those issues, please?
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Post in this thread
with details of what exactly you want added, removed, and/or edited, and the moderators can do it for you.
So I just think, since the page is locked, that on the description it should be noted that there is a fifth, stand alone book planned at some point.
Beauty Is Never Tarnished: it's averted in the case of Nuada's scars - subverted too in a way since she displays her scars to assert her role as chief of the Varden and later as queen.
Raxis
Is Galby really a Boring Invincible Villain? We haven't seen him enough to know how invincible he really is, and because he's Orcus on His Throne, we don't even know his personality and if he's actually boring or not.
Edited by Raxis Hide / Show Replies
He's been built up to be one by every character who has talked about him, so yes. According to several characters, Galbatorix is so powerful that he could squash the entire Varden effortlessly if he just got off his ass.
What matters in this life is much more than winning for ourselves. What really matters is helping others win, too. - F. Rogers.
Remember, he's been researching the True Name of the True Speech. He's not just been sitting there...
Sometimes Good Is Not Nice. It Sucks to Be the Chosen One, yet You Are Not Alone. Every hardship is Level Grinding, cue Crowning Moment Of Awesome.
AcesoldierZero
Here's an example worth considering:
Punch-Clock Villain: Murtagh by Brsingr. His dialogue seems to indicate that he would rather pull a Heel–Face Turn if he could break free of Galbatorix's control.
https://soundcloud.com/rich-justice-hinmen Too white for the black kids, too white for the white kids. Hide / Show Replies
Agreed, I actually found that one outburst of his in his fight with Oromis rather gut-wrenching. "YOU COULD HAVE HELPED US!"
"All stories teach us something, and promise us something, whether they're true or invented, legend or fact." -Stewart O'Nan
Murtagh's really more of a Forced into Evil.
Edited by Robinton Sometimes Good Is Not Nice. It Sucks to Be the Chosen One, yet You Are Not Alone. Every hardship is Level Grinding, cue Crowning Moment Of Awesome.
Ravenous Sophovore
The following entry has been accused of being shoehorned.
- Five-Man Band: In Book Four:
- The Hero: Eragon
- The Lancer: Elva
- The Smart Guy: Angela
- The Chick: Arya
- The Mentor: Saphira
Please discuss. If it does indeed belong here, let us know here.
I've went on amazon.com and saw a lot of one-star reviews saying that they enjoyed the series until book 4, which had too much Left Hanging. I put it in the YMMV page under Ending Aversion.
Edited by SamMax
Since this page is locked (*sigh*), I'll just put the trope here for someone to move once it's unlocked....
Clean Dub Name : A mild version of this occurs in the German translation, for the elf named Blödhgarm. In German, "blöd" means "stupid". His name was changed to Bloëdhgarm.
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Edit Request for a Locked Page
They aren't planning on unlocking it, as far as I'm aware, so just make any requests on that thread.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CanonSue
Seems like the main character is pretty much a textbook Mary Sue, so...
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He makes multiple mistakes, is criticized by the other characters, and doesn't always get his way. How is he in any way a Mary Sue, let alone a "textbook" one?
"All stories teach us something, and promise us something, whether they're true or invented, legend or fact." -Stewart O'Nan
Mary-sues can make mistakes and be criticized by others and still be mary-sues. Eragon is one because everything that happens to him is just because he is so special! He's perfect(in-universe) and any mistakes he make(that were intended by the author, not the mistakes like some of the hypocrisy and sociopathy that were accidental) only serves to make him even more perfect or a lame/failed attempt at humanizing him.
Well if you add this, either way put it under YMMV just to be safe. Harry Potter is also "just so special" etc.
I'd like to add Fantastic Nuke to this page - it's a fairly major plot point in Book 4, both historically and during the final battle.
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Except this is an actual nuke. Except not. What's going on here is that matter is being converted straight to energy. It's not a nuclear explosion. It's actually pure explosion, if you will, the results of Explodium. Presumably, the radioactive fallout that would contaminate in a regular nuke is replaced by the Ionizing radiation from such an event.
They seem to be having another go at making a movie out of Eragon. If so, the page needs to be updated.
I was going to add a possible shout-out to Doctor Who. In Inheritance, Solembum mentions that he has seen men who age backwards, shadows that creep, and rooms that are bigger on the inside than the outside. Sounds like references to newer Doctors being younger, the Vashta Nerada, and the TARDIS.
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Paolini himself has said he likes Dr Who, and there's one in Brisingr as well. There's also a big Avatar one in Inheritance. I'd say both are worth mentioning.
I'll admit that men aging backwards and shadows that creep are dubious as shout outs, but "bigger on the inside" is much less dubious.
Bigger on the Inside is a whole trope of its own. It has hundreds of examples. They can't all be Doctor Who shout-outs.
And again, similar story with aging backwards (Merlin Sickness) and shadows that creep (Living Shadow). There are hundreds of works that use those tropes. Doctor Who wasn't the first and it won't be the last. If you had something more concrete—for example, if Solembum made a reference to a phone booth that was Bigger on the Inside—then we might have something to work with.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Wow. I don't know how I missed all of that. Especially Bigger On The Inside being its own trope. I must look really stupid now.
That'd be valid, but Paolini has made several similar shout outs to the Doctor in the past. Which he has said were deliberate shout outs to the Doctor. So I wouldn't dismiss this one out of hand.
Brony? Moi? surely you jest!
the plot summary seems to be a stealth Take That! against eragon, in that it is very similar to Star Wars, in fact, in trying to point out the similarities to star wars, a few key plotpoints have been left out. also,why exactly is this page locked?
He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also Hide / Show Replies
Does it still count as a Take That! when its true?
Being in a Japanese-produced work is not enough of a difference to warrant its own trope.
"*AHEM*, in fact, in trying to point out the similarities to star wars, a few key plot points have been left out."
true it is very similar, but if you actually read it seriously, instead of trying to read it to find everything that (supposedly) sucks, you can quite easily see that it is quite differant from star wars
Edited by dontcallmewave He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also
I'd just like to point out that the summary, at the very least, needs to be edited to reflect some information from Brisingr. Particularly the fact that Morzan being Eragon's father turned out to be a red herring.
It pretty much IS Star Wars, just with a few things changed around. It's a fun story to read though, even if it's pretty cliched.
A plot summary generally doesn't concern itself with twists that should by and large be spoiler-tagged. Do we really need to change this for the sake of differentiation when the plot is objectively similar? It just smacks of "Well, sure, I guess it's kind of a lot like Star Wars, but look, this happened in book three, so it's different!"
And the plot of Swordof Shannara is almost plagiaristically similar to The Lordofthe Rings, but the page for it isn't just a snarky observation of that fact.
"All stories teach us something, and promise us something, whether they're true or invented, legend or fact." -Stewart O'Nan
@gfrequency: Not that it matters anymore since the description has been overhauled since, but the previous summary WAS just a snarky recap of the whole series, plot twists included. So my point was more "if we're going to keep it as a summary, we need to at least keep it up to date."
Is this going to be unlocked now we have the detail from Inheritance? Maybe mods are willing to give this page a chance as a normal page again too - certainly, when I read Inheritance, there was a lot less there that I was thinking 'idiots will complain about this' - maybe it's been long enough in most people's memory, not to mention there is still plenty of bias in the page to fix as well as new content to do.
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You may make a Sandbox if you have sweeping changes to make.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
To do that, go to the article source here and copy the whole thing onto the Sandbox page here. Then make your changes on the Sandbox and post in the "Edit Request for a Locked Page" thread here to ask a mod to swap in the sandbox version.
You can also post individual example entries in the thread and a mod will add them to the page for you.
Edited by troacctid Rhymes with "Protracted."
Did they get left behind when the namespace moved?
Edited by DSFARGEG
Yes.
Here is the old location of the reviews. Use the "Correct subject" button to move them to the new location.
Bittersweet Ending: The end of the entire series was kinda bittersweet in that Eragon vanquished Galbatorix and Arya admits something may come between them in time, only to have Eragon have to leave the land forever. Even Saphira was finally getting together with someone.
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Also: Boss Battle: Lord Barst's fight with Roran. Fantastic Nuke: An elf Rider during the fighting at Vroenguard, and Galbatorix when he dies. Heel–Face Turn: Murtagh during the battle with Galbatorix.
See the Edit Request for a Locked Page thread.
Not An Example of Boss Battle, by the way. That's for interactive media.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Is it possible for Climax Boss to come into play if its a non-interactive media?
Generally speaking, no, because boss fights don't happen in non-interactive media. The exception is when they directly reference video games, e.g. Scott Pilgrim.
You may be looking for Final Battle.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Apathetic Lizard
Please add:
- Puppet King: Nasuada is set up as this. However, it doesn't quite work out.
The elves and dwarves develop technology at a much slower rate than humans do. What happens to them when the human race enters into gunpowder weaponry? Does anyone think they'll have any shot at survival?
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If Paolini ever gets to it, I think it'll be a really nice technology vs magic war. But the humans will have to go from flintlocks to cartridges really, really fast, magic is pretty competent in this world.
Not likely if you read Inheritance. Not ever likely with even human Riders anyway. As it is, if things were really to change, I think the elves would be perfectly suited to magitek anyway.
Since this page has been locked to stop people countering the numerous mistakes in the Official Position, I'll just list there here:
- "Forgotten Phlebotinum: Remember that incredibly powerful ring with tons of stored-up energy you've got, Eragon? No, you don't."
- It was was only actually _forgotten_ once (in the battle). Otherwise, it's Too Awesome to Use.
Better way of putting it:
- Forgotten Phlebotinum: Eragon forgets about Brom's ring during the battle
- Too Awesome to Use: Brom's ring
- Also, Kick The Dog: Setting aside the morally dissonant atrocities our heroes are mentioned to have done, we have the elves attacking an allied village without warning or mercy. To ensure that Galbatorix is a true villain, he also has his henchmen destroy several villages on their own.
- No, they didn't. That is pure hatedom fantasy. They besieged one human city, which was loyal to Galbatorix, and was no different to the Varden's actions in the south. So unless the Varden also doing so was Kicking The Dog, delete.
- Not So Different:
- Angela poisons the Empire's officers, and the others react almost negatively.
- Punctuation Shaker: Ra'zac and Zar'roc, amongst others.
- Both are in the Ancient Language, there the ' is a letter (similar to some non-English languages), indicating a brief delay. It's not gratuitous.
- The Revolution Will Not Be Vilified: The Varden (rebellion) is good, while The Empire is evil.
- Delete this, unless it actually happens in the series (it doesn't). If you just want to make snarky comments, isn't that what reviews etc. are for?
- Stronger Sibling: Murtagh is more than capable of kicking Eragon's behind, with the help of a few Eldunari.
- Delete. Without the Eldunari, Eragon would be more than capable of killing Murtagh even when as exhausted as he was. If you really want to keep the example, it's the wrong page (is there anything like Purely Equipment Based Skill ?)
- Unfortunate Implications
- is a VMMV.
- Veganopia: Elven society. Justified somewhat in that it's difficult to eat something when you can hear its thoughts and empathize with it.
- vegetarians actually. They use everything from leather to feathers, although they still don't kill animals to do so.
- Whole Plot Reference: The first two books are basically Star Wars: A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. Not 'inspired by', not 'borrows heavily from'; the plot is almost the exact same.
- Do I really need to explain all the differences and YMM Vness?
just a response to the "Angela poisons the Empire's officers, and the others react almost negatively" they reacted flat out negitivly, one dwarf even saying that it is "dishonorable" and such, but they mostly figure that it is a necessary evil, which is still negitavly.
I'm baaaaaaack
0% Approval Rating is listed as a trope for Galbatorix.
See the mention in Protagonist-Centered Morality. It should be mentioned as disputed. Some think that Galbatorix is a ridiculously hated king, some think the heroes are egoist because he is basically a benevolent tyrant. But these cannot be both true.
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Its the first, but not completly. he is evil, what with genocide and slavery and MASSIVE conscription, but inuniverse some people like him, more then likely due to propaanda about the rebels being no more then an army of criminals and bandits, but he does have some supporters.
I'm baaaaaaack
Indiana Solo
whaats with the Anti-hero and moral dissonance on eragon? he seems like a pretty average hero, and besides one or two examples hes really been a pretty shining example. shouldnt that be changed?
I'm baaaaaaack
Stick of the Fallen
Can we add at the beginning:
Also spawned a game?
"Oh great! Let's pile up all the useless cats and hope a tree falls on them!"
The You Fail Geography Forever is very shoehorned in - the map is extremely wide and there is a large area of plains in between the two.
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A bigger YFGF is that in the last chapter of Brisingr, Eragon watches the sun rise over the sea, from a city on the western coast.
Is it specifically stated elsewhere that the sun rises in the east in this world?
"All stories teach us something, and promise us something, whether they're true or invented, legend or fact." -Stewart O'Nan
Hey, can we please put in something along the lines of "Not to be confused with the other Inheritance Trilogy, which is by N.K. Jemison"?
Edited by PhoenixFire Hide / Show Replies
Shouldnt the article have a better description, I'm sure there are many critics but can we try to be neutral at least?
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It should, but it's unlikely. Hating it is pretty much an official position from this wiki, the main reason I all but gave up with this page.
I've noticed that Acceptable Targets in this case is actually In-Universe, referring to humans' treatment of Elves (As opposed what it had formerly been under history, which was basically refering to the book). Since it's In-Universe, shouldn't it be moved back into the main page from the YMMV?
Edit: Speaking of YMMV moves, it seems that Unusual Euphemism (as of this edit) is no longer YMMV and should probably be moved back into the main page too.
Edited by Darkaros
Land Captain!
I only ask because of how much of a firebrand this series can be in discussions, but in the YMMV page, should it be mentioned that A: There is a lot of Alternate Character Interpretation from the hatedom camp, saying that Eragon is really just as bad as Galby but gets a free moral pass from his allies because he's the designated/prophesied hero, the Varden is a terrorist organization only marginally better than the Empire (if it's better at all), and the Dragon Riders were a racist cabal of violent elven supremacists. These are all said to try and disparage the series, among other things. However, B: There is a small frigne group of fans who believe this interpretation but think that it makes the story better.
Like I said, normally I wouldn't think twice about a YMMV edit, but since people can get pretty heated over this series I thought it best to check.
If you're gonna say something, try and make sure you're right first, not afterwards.
I'd like to submit that Roran would be a strong candidate for Hero of Another Story. Sure, he's technically a point of view character, but he's off slaughtering hundreds of enemies from atop an ever-growing mountain of their shattered corpses and wrestling Urgals into submission after being beaten to within an inch of death for disobeying orders while Eragon's on vacation with the dwarves, and he doesn't even get mentioned during the final battle of Brisingr.
Edited by Kavonde Hide / Show Replies
The Aragorn might work better, but this example could also not fit any trope. Square Peg Round Trope and all.
Mad Scientist! MWAHHAAHAH
"Atop A Mountain Of Corpses: A scene in the second book has Roran standing triumphantly atop a pile of 193 slaughtered mooks... ..." This happened in the third book!
Note to self: There's a misuse of ...Or So I Heard in the Aloof Big Brother example. It Must Die.
Li'l troper
So, uh, I wanted to add an example...
- Bilingual Bonus: The fictive languages draw a lot of inspiration from real ones. This also leads to a Bilingual Spoiler for anyone familiar with Norse languages: Arya is called "Dröttning" and variations thereof by the elven escorts, early spoiling her royal identity: "Dröttning" is extremely similar to the word for "queen" in all Norse languages.
So, uh, how long are pages like this going to remain locked? Indefinitely? What happens when the 4th book gets released and we need to add another bunch of tropes?
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Fast Eddie gets to add all the examples himself.
Either that, or he unlocks it so that one person can add relevent tropes, then relocks it when that person is done.
Best case scenario would be he just unlocks it so that wikimagic can start working again, but if the page has been locked this long, that's probably just wishful thinking.
Now Bloggier than ever before!
'M not Crazy, just Raven
- Standard Fantasy Setting: One of the things Fan Haters use to accuse Paolini of being unoriginal.
The Fan Haters should probably be changed to "Hatedom" or "critics".
Now Bloggier than ever before!
http://www.inheritanceforums.com/index.php?showtopic=54293&st=0
Needs to be added in under expy, for certain.
I actually thought the series was pretty good (yes, even the first book). Sure it is definitely a huge Cliché Storm, and the first book definitely read like it was written by a 16-year-old with a thesaurus, but I found it rather enjoyable and re-listenable (I listened to the audiobooks instead of reading the books). The movie sucked though (possible new entry for the Live-Action Films section of So Bad, It's Horrible)?
Umm... so, I was here, I guess. If I wasn't, someone hacked my account. So, yeah. Hide / Show Replies