Darkwing Goose
Proposing the Ranger Rick's Adventures Comics from 2009-2015. I recently dug up some of my old Ranger Rick magazines and was taken aback by how incredibly awful they were. They are in a HIDEOUS CGI artstyle (apparently by a British studio called Character Shop) that looks like a Video Brinquedo movie and frequently brushes with the Uncanny Valley. The writing isn't much better, as its Green Aesop is delivered with the subtlety of a sledgehammer and it devolves some beloved characters into Flat Characters: Ranger Rick is a Vanilla Protagonist, Scarlett Fox is smart, Boomer Badger is stupid, and that's it. The reason why I'm on the fence is because I literally can't find anything online. The pre-2009 comics have much better art, seemingly better writing, and fans, while the characters were redesigned in 2016 to be more cartoony and much less eye-gouging. (Can't say anything about the writing.) Do they qualify or no?
Edited by TheAlmightyKingPrawn SP00PY month!
Would the Dinosaucers reboot count? Based on the comments on {{www.readcomiconline.to this website}}, it seems to be rather unpopular with readers.
Edited by 11111001011
A couple more Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles examples, courtesy of TMNT Entity:
- The Dreamwave series is an exercise in tedium with storylines never focused on the Turtles, largely centered on ancillary characters. Even the more original storylines in the later issues were very rote and boring. Along with crummy facial expressions, awkward proportions, and muddy colors galore to ruin the visual experience of readers. Thankfully this thing ended at 7 issues.
- The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles/Flaming Carrot crossover is nothing but an endless stream of nonsense masquerading as humor. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are interchangeable and ultimately provide absolutely nothing to the story. The entire story is centered on the Flaming Carrot cast, with the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles being more of inconsequential guest stars.
I cut part of the Cry for Justice entry — one about the sequel it leads into — because it seems to be listing that sequel for squick alone, which we should not do — even if the work seems to be hitting snuff-fic territory. Besides, if the bulk of the /co/ board contests that part, then it doesn't qualify. If there are genuine literary virtues, then we cannot list it.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney Hide / Show Replies
Am I imagining things, or did someone put the /co/-approved sequel back?
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
At the end of the Cry For Justice entry... could someone rewrite it. Just to get rid of that... word. GRIMDARK. I don't know if I should edit it because a lot of these pages have rules to not remove/edit existing entries...
Please for the love of all that's good, you can keep the entry the way it is, put get rid of all mentions of that fucking word. Please, everytime I read it, a part of my soul dies. Replace it with Darker and Edgier. I will never forgive scans_daily for creating that abomination.
Edited by biznizz Sometimes life just sucks. You have to learn to take the good with the bad. Why should you expect anything different in the mediums?
Fixed. The rule on this page is not to remove entries without listing a good reason, but editing them for style should be fine. This is a wiki, after all.
I think I might have put one or two of the GRIMDARKs there in the first place. Sorry about that.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
Cut this and put it here. This serial has friends in high places.
- Cry for Justice, a recent DC miniseries by James Robinson that featured Hal Jordan trying to create a proactive Justice League (because that always ends well). Nicknamed "Gay for Justice" by readers, thanks to some unfortunate lettering styles. The series features gratuitous gore and violence, characters being dismembered, and gross characterization, and everyone constantly shouting "For justice!" Put it this way — when the author directly and explicitly apologizes to the fans over the quality of the work, twice, BEFORE THE SERIES HAS FINISHED, then you know you're dealing with something AWFUL.
- The worst facet of Cry for Justice was not the pointless deaths (they're a standby of the comics whether we like it or not) or the wasted talent (we all have off days), but how out of place it feels in the greater DCU. We've just had not one but TWO big events about how traditional superheroic fun sticks it to darkness and edginess; immediately afterward, we have a series where the Darker and Edgier dominates the heroes. It's like One More Day. It just... doesn't fit.
- Robinson seems to have not got the memo that comics have moved on from the Darker and Edgier days of his nineties run on Starman. He made a Darker and Edgier Superman arc at the same time, though that one
isn't quite bad enough for a formal listing.was actually pretty good. - The style of Your Mileage May Vary truly is in the eye of the beholder, as this series was nominated for two Eisner Awards (one for Best Writer and one for Best Artist). The problem here is that the story was... alright, were it an Elseworlds title or about another superteam, but putting it into the main continuity caused severe problems. For one thing, Ray Palmer as the Atom bounced around in peoples' heads to get them to talk. Since this is the way his wife inadvertently caused Sue Dibney's death, it is jarring; but it is even more-so when he was portrayed as a relatively unlikeable ass in this work whereas it was a serious plot point in Blackest Night that Ray was so compassionate for his fellow man that he became an Indigo Lantern Deputy! And the most serious point of contention, the one that Linkara just can't seem to get over (seriously, it's almost scary), the death of Lian Harper. The one instance where Infant Immortality was averted and was the genesis of the current Arrow Family Metaplot, was the result of Executive Meddling (whether it was Dan Didio or Green Arrow editor Adam Schlagman's call is unknown) which dictated that Lian Harper had to die in the chaos in Star City.
- Robinson seems to have not got the memo that comics have moved on from the Darker and Edgier days of his nineties run on Starman. He made a Darker and Edgier Superman arc at the same time, though that one
- The worst facet of Cry for Justice was not the pointless deaths (they're a standby of the comics whether we like it or not) or the wasted talent (we all have off days), but how out of place it feels in the greater DCU. We've just had not one but TWO big events about how traditional superheroic fun sticks it to darkness and edginess; immediately afterward, we have a series where the Darker and Edgier dominates the heroes. It's like One More Day. It just... doesn't fit.
Didn't you delete that? Someone just wanted to put it back up... what freaking ever. But apparantly, some anonymous editor doesn't want people to know it was nominated for Eisner Awards (it didn't win any, but that's still information that needs to be said).
Sometimes life just sucks. You have to learn to take the good with the bad. Why should you expect anything different in the mediums?
I did delete it. It got reinstated when I wasn't looking. I'm glad it's gone again...
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
I'm not. "Cry for Justice" was absolute garbage from start to finish. But someone, somewhere like it so it doesn't belong here? Ignore industry insiders who are too busy patting themselves on the back to notice they're working in an industry that's bleeding money, and find me someone — anyone — who had something positive to say about it. Anyone. I'll wait. I'm not trying to be rude, but the justification for it not being listed here is just not strong enough.
"Countdown" had a crowning moment of awesome or two (somewhere in those 52 issues and 400 million tie-in and spin-off issues). Going by that logic, you need to delete the entry for "Countdown" immediately because somebody, somewhere liked it.
And that's not even touching the fact that the "Rise of Arsenal" entry was removed as well. How many different types of "staggeringly awful" are there to justify what goes here and what doesn't? Because no, I just don't understand the different standards. I repeat, going by the page rules, "Countdown" isn't that horrible either.
It's just, the only reason it's not here is because it was nominated for an Eisner. And that's not a good enough defence.
What was it nominated for anyway? Artwork that makes it look like DC's major characters bleed sparkly red confetti? Lettering that gave us the "Gay for justice!" pun? Dialogue on page one of issue one where Hal Jordan jokes about a threesome he had with two female Birds of Prey (a sexual adventure that would be grossly out-of-character for the two women mentioned)? The age old trope of the badguy killing a bunch of c-listers off-camera to make himself look badass and hardcore (c-listers which were either from foreign countries, or gay, potentially adding racism and homophobia to the sexist charge above)? What does this comic have to do, to wind up here?
"Oh but it was nominated for something!" And I'm sure Joey Q goes home every night and pats himself on the back because "One More Day" was his greatest idea ever. I watched people defend "One More Day" when it came out, I watched people ... admit that they didn't totally hate some aspects of "Countdown". And both of those are comics that should never have been published.
Look at the bottom section of the entry, where somebody defends the series. Take note that they offer YMMV for one sentence, and then spend a paragraph talking about how flawed the series was. Doesn't that fit the very *definition* of failing its own niche, when even the people who didn't mind it can turn around within a sentence and add, "But it also sucked for reasons x, y and z"?
I have no intention of getting into an edit war and I don't want to do that, but there are no reasons whatsoever this four-colour piece of garbage shouldn't be listed under "so bad it's horrible", and there never will be any satisfactory reasons either. "Rise of Arsenal" as well.
Edited by 118.208.177.69
I liked it. It had it's flaws, but other than the ending, I thought it was OK. Like a small step up from mediocre. Hell, I'm a guy who doesn't mind Identity Crisis all that much.
Being nominated, it doesn't even have to win just nominated, for an award means that a panel of judges looked over this work and said, "Alright, this passes." and put it with other nominations.
I honestly don't care if you don't like it random Anon, I'm sorry that you are pissed off by it, but other than that I'm indifferent to you and your reaction to it. I'm a comic nerd. A DC one to be precise. But the moment that I lose sleep over something, the moment I start edit wars over it and speak of it with the acidicy that you do, unless it is truly offensive to anyone other than a comic nerd, THAT will be the moment I reexamine my life. I think you need to as well, it's just a freaking story. Take a chill pill and relax. Edit wars with Anons NEVER helps anything. Seriously.
Sometimes life just sucks. You have to learn to take the good with the bad. Why should you expect anything different in the mediums?
This has been reinstated and is on the verge of an Edit War. And I am unsure how to handle it.
Okay, so the majority of comics fans hate this work. There still appears to be a niche for it, and if any significant part of that niche is outside the asylum, that disqualifies the work.
We can't disregard niches at will. The entire index is on slippery ground as it stands — it is being suggested as I type this that someone go after this like they went after "I Am Not Making This Up." If we deliberately disregard known niches, we'll push this (further?) into "Complaining About Shows You Don't Like" territory. Only by being discriminating can we ensure the continued existence of this page.
Similarly, the fewer entries on a page, the more credibility this index maintains. We need to be as sure as our nerves allow.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
Disregard. Posted in wrong place.
Edited by supergod For we shall slay evil with logic...
Does JLA: Act of God and maybe Catwoman: Guardian of Gotham by Doug Moench qualify?
Edited by Xteme19
Does Scott Lobdell's Teen Titans count? It was hated by pretty much everyone, and nowadays even DC mocks it.
Walking the Earth
This entry was deleted for being about an entire run:
- Kirkman's run on Ultimate X Men ended with him retconning almost every major change he had made, but it was still, sadly, not enough to wipe the long, dragging Magician arc from readers' memories. Kurt Wagner going batshit insane from his time in the Weapon X program could've been done as Character Development, but when coupled with his sudden off-the-wall homophobia and super-creepy Annie Wilkes-like behavior towards Dazzler, it just wound up being the final straw.
I don't think that adding entire runs is not allowed, but the entry was specifically about the "Magicians" arc.
That said, I think this entry as written should stay off. I'm not sure whether it even actually belongs here or not, but the write-up definitely isn't good enough. All it talks about is Nightcrawler's change in personality after going insane, and pretty much nothing in there will mean anything to anyone unfamiliar with X-Men.
Edited by supergod For we shall slay evil with logic...
I understand that offensive works generally do not count, but what is the stance on Chick Tracts?
Hide / Show Replies
I think it has too much of an ironic cult following for it to count.
For we shall slay evil with logic...
Re cut request: Please use a redirect for such inbound-rich pages; also, the discussion page should have a move request too.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman Hide / Show Replies
Moved and redirected it myself.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Walking the Earth
If we're going the "not including individual arcs and issues of otherwise good comics" route, we'll have to get rid of a few entries.
For we shall slay evil with logic...
Walking the Earth
I've cut three examples. The Silent Hill and Holy Terror books shouldn't be here, even if they have large hatedoms. The Silent Hill comics' unpopularity is mostly because of how little they have to do with the games, anyway (and they're really only here because of Linkara's reviews), and though the books have their share of negative reviews, they're more "meh" than "worst book ever!", and some are considered better than others. Maybe the worst books in the series could be mentioned (with better arguments than "made things up as it goes along" and "murky artwork"), but not the entire thing as a whole.
A case could probably be made for Bruce Jones's run on Checkmate, however, but it needs more details than this:
- Bruce Jones' run on the once-spectacular Checkmate. He knew the title was going to be canned when he took it, so he felt free to go insane. How bad was this? He took a gritty, realistic spy thriller and made it about a morphing, amnesiac animal man fighting giant porcupines.
That doesn't explain why you removed Holy Terror, only the Silent Hill comics.
Holy Terror has a lot of defenders. It's mainly hated because of its offensiveness, and like the page says that's not what gets something on the list. But the main problem is that the write-up had one line describing other problems with the book, and even then too vaguely. The "art is terrible" bit seemed to be just thrown in for the sake of adding another flaw, since the that's the one thing that most professional reviewers seemed to agree was actually decent.
Edited by supergod For we shall slay evil with logic...
Since people seem to be adamant about adding Holy Terror, and I don't want to be involved in a silly edit war about a comic I don't care about either way, let me clear some things up. Of course I didn't add it based on the idea that something needs "literally has no fans" to qualify, but in general I've seen way more than what would be required to keep something off. Most reviews of the book are negative, but very few actually say that it's downright terrible in a technical sense, and some
even admit that the book's target audience will probably like it. This should be for things that the vast majority of people consider to be ouright terrible, not just for things that most people think are regular bad or offensive.
And that's not even the main issue here. The page clearly states that being offensive is not enough to add something here, and most of the hate towards the book is based on the fact that it's offensive (and also the fact that it's written by a writer who was already controversial). The entire write-up is basically about how offensive it is. There is literally one line about other problems with the book and it's completely vague. If we get rid of the propaganda stuff, we're left with poor art and formatting, very little characterization and taking too long to get past the first plot point. I'll get to the art later, but no other book would be listed here if the other two points were the worst things you could say about the writing.
About the art, as I mentioned before most reviews consider the art to be good, so it really looks like looking for flaws. And in response to the question "How many comics here have truly atrocious art?". If the art in a comic isn't actually horrible, then don't say that the art is horrible just for the sake of it, especially without any explanation. I'm getting rid of the bit about the art because there are a lot of reviews that praise it, and it's not like there's any explanation anyway.
I'll never personally agree that it should be on, but if the problems with the plot were actually expanded upon, it would provide an actual justification to keep it here.
Edited by supergod For we shall slay evil with logic...
Good art =/= Good comic. The story is disjointed and badly paced. The actual dialog is Miller at his Reading-His-Own-Press worst. And that's before you get to the Islamophobia. You argue that the "only reason" this is listed because of it's offensiveness, while it reads like the only reason you keep pulling it is "The art's good." How many of the comics listed under Marvel or DC have bad art? If this were just a page about art, you'd have a point. Comics have stories and the story in Holy Terror is indefensible from both a technical and content standpoint. Adding back.
Edited by Freezer My name is Freezer and my anti-drug is porn.
I never said that it's "good" because of the art, and that's not even one of the reasons I'm against including it. I simply said the art isn't actually considered terrible (and a lot of people consider it to be good), so it shouldn't be mentioned as such just for the sake of having another point against it, especially with no actual explanation.
You're ignoring all of my other points. It has enough of a following from its target audience and Miller fans to keep it off. And even ignoring that, if the story is as bad as you say, then it needs to have more detail to it, not to mention that the points about the characterization and lingering plot point wouldn't be enough to get anything else on the list. Like I mentioned a few times already, if you took out the Islamophobia, you'd be left with one line that doesn't explain anything. "Disjointed and badly paced" doesn't explain anything. Yes, the Islamaphobia is a major factor in it's supposed terribleness, but it's not enough without anything else supporting it. If I were unfamiliar with it, I would have no idea what it's even about apart from the fact it's anti-Islam and was supposed to be a Batman comic. Hell, even the bits about the Islamophobia are incredibly vague. How about some actual examples?
Also, I only took it off once after it was readded.
Edited by supergod For we shall slay evil with logic...
This trope takes into account both objective writing quality and the existence of a genuine audience (because bad works can still get a genuine audience - So Bad, It's Good, for example). Based upon what is said here by both sides it doesn't seem to qualify.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
For the record, Holy Terror isn't a DC book. It was an unused Batman story, but published independently with the Serial Numbers Filed Off.
My name is Freezer and my anti-drug is porn.
Cut this and put it here for discussion:
- 9 Chickweed Lane: Everyone's a sex-crazed, pretentious asshole, so it's impossible to like anyone except the cat. Homosexuality is handled so badly it manages to insult conservatives and liberals alike — one character quickly breaks up with his boyfriend of several years, dances with a seducing female acquaintance, has sex with her that night, and then swears up and down that he's not interested in women and being gay is just how he is (comparing it to his shoe size). Then he dumps her, she's understandably upset, and he tries to talk to her. Somehow, the readers are supposed to feel sorry for this guy. And did we mention that the author has gone through great lengths to silence criticism?
The reason I cut it was because it won Best Newspaper Comic at the 2006 National Cartoonists Society Awards. Is that cause for Nine Chickweed Lane to be disqualified from being So Bad It's Horrible?
Is it okay to remove Marmaduke? Yes, I recognize that it has an immense Hatedom, but it's stil a Long Runner. Unless things work a bit differently in the world of Newspaper Comics, I like to take that as a sign that it's doing something right for it to be a Long Runner.
EDIT: Then again, that sounds normal for Newspaper Comics. It's still ongoing, if the page proper is to be believed. Shouldn't that disqualify it? We seem to have that ruling for some other mediums, after all.
Edited by SamMax Hide / Show Replies
I'm shaky on that one to, it's got enough of a fanbase it got a theatrical movie, with I think Garfeild is the only other comic to co that(I'm not sure is any of the Peanuts movies hit theaters)
Edited by 216.99.32.44
I agree. It's bad, but it obviously has some sort of following, especially since there is merchandise. It's also one of the most known Newspaper Comics so the popularity thing should disqualify it.
For we shall slay evil with logic...
If Marmaduke qualifies, then Family Circus really should be on here.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Example cut. If anyone feels the need to re-add it for whatever reason, here it is.
- Marmaduke is repeatedly riffed on for being monotonous and ugly. Despite it being a very long-running strip, its only jokes center around how big Marmaduke is or how he thinks he's human, with almost no variations on these themes. Nearly half of its article on The Other Wiki discusses just how thoroughly hated it is by comics critics.
Thinking of adding X-Men: Phoenix - Legacy of Fire. Anyone object? And the fanservice is too excessive to find appealing.
Hide / Show Replies
Needs some more details.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Would Many Hands (an artist/artists for Archie Comics Sonic The Hedgehog) qualify? To my knowledge, he/she/they only drew two stories, but both were nearly unversially despised artwise, both having sloppy artwork, and the first one having black paper with eyes and maybe a spark of light and snowflake paper, both for no apparent reason. Heck, the first was so bad that it was remade with much more competent artwork by Steven Butler as a 2011 Free Comic Book Day Special! The second story by Many Hands, an adaptation of a Sonic Sat AM episode, removed the black and snowflake paper, but still had some very bad artwork that makes Rob Liefeld look like Michelangelo. Is it any wonder that he/she/they remain anonymous after all these years? Personally, I don't know how that qualified as professional artwork. What do you think? Evey comment I've ever seen of Many Hands' work was negative, so it looks like the quality is one of the few things the Sonic The Hedgehog fanbase can agree on.
Edited by SamMax Hide / Show Replies
I think we can list that artist...
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
After a few months, I finally had the time to put him on the list, and then somebody removed him. I don't know why he wouldn't qualify, considering everything I've found of reactions to Many Hands' work was overwhelmingly negative. Though it's more than likely that my entry just simply suffered from Bad Writing. Who knows?
Edited by SamMax
Cutting and putting here for discussion
- Rise Of Arsenal is the spiritual sequel to Cry for Justice, which ought to warn readers off. The story is jarringly offensive and bad, attempts at gaining emotion from the reader feel forced and manipulative, Roy Harper is massively Out of Character (even after considering that he's a grieving father), and the art is often inconsistent. To sum up how bad this book can be: there's a moment where Roy beats up a bunch of thugs in an alley to protect a dead cat that he thinks is his dead daughter while strung out on heroin.
Cut this and put it here for now. This guy did do a few good panels, and it seems like much of the reason for his being listed is his politics... Is this really as bad as Mallard Fillmore?
- The works of Brazilian artist Carlos Latuff could aptly illustrate the entry for Anvilicious when the term enters the dictionary, but that trope still doesn't go halfway in describing his cartoons. A primitive black and white view of the world permeates his strips, with the USA and Israel entirely demonized (and literally everything controversial they've ever done attributed to Motiveless Malignity), virtually everyone who opposes them made out to be a hero despite sometimes being completely different from one another (communists on the left and Islamic fundamentalists on the right are both celebrated), gratuitous amounts of violent imagery are used to reinforce his "points", and his Dethroning Moment of Suck was his participation in/shameless promotion of a contest held by Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that called on artists to write cartoons about the Holocaust in rebuttal of the infamous Danish cartoon that pictured the prophet Mohammed, allegedly pointing out the Double Standards of the World in their views of Judaism vs. Islam — because we all know that violating one of the tenets of a religion you don't even practice is a comparable atrocity to trying to kill off everyone who practices that religion! Not to mention that Ahmadinejad doesn't even believe in the Holocaust.
- Basically, he's pretty much a rebellious uneducated 12-year-old in the body of a grown man with passable drawing skills.
- He's also said to be incredibly rude, deleting any comment on his art that doesn't agree with him exactly, including, presumably, people who try to be voices of reason offering constructive criticism. Which is a shame, as he has drawn some surprisingly heartwarming cartoons advocating peace in the Middle East. It's just that these are lost amid a sea of blood, leather-pantsing, and bodily fluids.
Are we sure Superman: At Earth's End qualifies? It sounds like the dialogue might not be Horrible by comic standards...
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
Cut this and put this here. If we are going to list authors, it should apply to the entire career. Failing that, a well-defined piece of it. This is, as it stood, neither. Clean-up on aisle 5?
- Running neck and neck with Austen for the title of most despised Marvel writer would be Paul Jenkins, especially his later work post-The Sentry. His output has included Civil War: Front Line (otherwise known as the one where Sally Floyd says You Tube is more important than personal liberties and the reader is supposed to agree with her), Sentry: Fallen Sun (near-unanimously considered Marvel's worst comic of 2010), and an infamous Spider-Man arc that states that humans are descended from insects and features Peter transforming into a giant pregnant female spider and giving birth to himself.
- The worst is that Jenkins is far from a bad writer when he's on. His two Sentry minis (the original and follow-up a few years later), his twelve issue Inhumans series and a celebrated run on Peter Parker: Spider-Man are all great reads. Just somewhere in the middle of the 2000s he lost his touch and at his best was merely mediocre. Thankfully he seems to be getting back on track after a very good Deadman story in DC Universe Presents.
Removed for being listed under So Bad, It's Good:
- DC Comics' weekly series Countdown To Final Crisis, by most accounts. Bad Writing, bad art, bad characterization, three different names (it started as Countdown, then Countdown to Final Crisis; the final issue was DC Universe Zero), three alternate Earths destroyed to prop up villains fans don't like, tie-in mini-series that explain key plot points that are equally horrible, and an ending that completely contradicted the events that it was created to build up. That's right, Countdown to Final Crisis was incompatible with Final Crisis! Shortly after 52 was finished, Dan Didio asked Grant Morrison to give some of his (work in progress) scripts of the first several issues of Final Crisis; other than that, it was pretty much controlled by Didio. It also pulled away advertising from the infinitely better Sinestro Corps War story that was going on at the same time. The whole thing was declared Canon Discontinuity the minute it was finished, but it still didn't erase the horrible taste it left in readers' mouths. It was so bad that the intended final issue, DC Universe #0, written by Grant Morrison and Geoff Johns, essentially replaced Countdown as the real lead-up to Final Crisis (the only thing that was acknowledged from Countdown was Darkseid's death, fall, and reincarnation into a human body as seen in Seven Soldiers). It was built up to be the spine of the DCU, but quickly became the colon.
If anyone feels like putting it back, however, then I don't know!
Edited by SamMax Hide / Show Replies
I did the same back in April, but someone put it back with the rationale "So take it off [the So Bad, It's Good page]". Just FYI.
I'll keep that in mind. All I know is that the consensus is that the story is bad, but what kind of bad? So Bad, It's Good? So bad you want to put your eyes out? What, I say, WHAT?!?!?!?
Edited by SamMax
Try so bad it's horrible. If you have no idea what the series is about or about the reasoning, then maybe you shouldn't be removing it.
In general, if something is listed on both So Bad It's Good and So Bad It's Horrible, SBIG takes precedence. Odds are high that something listed on SBIG has active fans on this very wiki.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
Excuse me, but does anyone honestly think Marvin deserves a place here? Isn't there anyone on TV Tropes who isn't biased against this comic? I mean, sure, it's not a great comic, but I don't think it's "horrible". I don't give a crap what the Comics Curmudgeon thinks about it, you're going to have to think of a better excuse to place it on this page than this:
- The title character of Marvin is one hell of a Creator's Pet. The jokes (which consist of Shallow Parodies, Incredibly Lame Puns, and Toilet Humor) tend to fall flat (to the point where the only clue one has been told is Marvin's smirk), and will often be recycled for up to a week on end, art and all, sometimes during an arc. Even with that, it explains the joke every time.
It just sounds more mediocre than anything else. If it really deserves to be here, come up with a better reason than this. Otherwise, take it off and KEEP it off.
Hide / Show Replies
Now that I think about it, this comic strip has been running since the 80s, so it's clearly doing something right. At least, that's how I look at it.
Edited by SamMax
EDIT: Just ignore this, I didn't know what I was on (and I still don't know).
Edited by SamMax
Ramblin' Mushroom
Cut by somebody, placing it here. Admittedly, there's nothing that states why this is bad, so I might have to agree with the cutter:
- Bristow is so mindblowingly lacking in funny that one seriously wonders if isn't some kind of amazingly overplanned practical joke on the entire newspaper-reading world.
I feel that the entry should stay, due to the flak it gets, but please elaborate on the "horrible" writing. Kept on the page, copied here for your viewing pleasure:
- The Valiant Comics-Image Comics crossover Death Mate helped destroy Valiant Comics and was one the contributing factors that led to the comics crash. The writing was horrible, the art◊ Liefeldian, and the concept flawed. And Image released its contributions years late.
Bird mom
Is there anything horrible about Incarnates other than the art plagarism? Becuase I'm not reading any.
The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing. Hide / Show Replies
The entry does say the wriing isn't good. No good points + plagiarism in a professional work = Horrible.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
does JLA Act of God count?
I don't know how to word it properly since I never read the comic (but I have seen Linkara's review) but I hear there are massive plot holes, characters try to sound deep but just end up confusing, Batman turns into a Gary Stu. And massive character derailment (like Lois divoricing superman becuase he lost his powers, and Wonder Woman becoming a catholic).
Edited by anoni
Cut this and put this here for now. Bad taste is not a sufficient reason.
- Chronos Carnival is widely considered to be the worst strip ever run in 2000AD. An attempt at making one of the characters a Handicapped Badass with a chip on his shoulder was seen as distasteful.
Cut this and put it here for now. Starting an entry here with "Your Mileage May Vary" is a bad sign. We're looking for the worst. And fans of Frank Miller do, in fact, count as a fanbase.
Yes, these are bad works. Character Derailment, squick, squick... But good art and the sincere fanbase would prevent this from landing here.
- Your Mileage May Vary when it comes to the more recent Batman comics by Frank Miller. Some die-hard Miller fans have stated that they fall into the So Bad, It's Good category, but the consensus from almost every critic and comic book reader (yes, yes, Linkara included) say that both The Dark Knight Strikes Again and All Star Batman And Robin are veryhorrible.
- For the record, these books are not just bad because Linkara said so, they both contain incorrect characterizations for most of the main cast (Batman as a psychotic, cop-killing kidnapper who beats Alfred and forces Robin to eat rats; Superman as an inept government shill; Wonder Woman as a sub who longs for Superman to turn her into his sex slave; and Vicki Vale as an empty-headed bimbo who prances around in her underwear while fawning over the chance of having a date with Bruce Wayne when not talking the difference between Superman's and Batman's respective penises, and that's just the worst of the lot. Even Carrie Kelly, one of the few strong female characters Miller has ever created, is turned into what's essentially a caricature of her original self). TDKSA has ugly artwork that looks like Miller drew it with his feet, which is ironically in stark contrast to ASBAR's great artwork but it received even worse reviews. Though that's not to say these comics don't have some strong points, they do, but they're very few and far between. Jim Lee's art in ASBAR as well as the occasional bit of humour in TDKSA have both been praised.
Bird mom
Is there anything horrible about Incarnates other than the art plagarism? Becuase I'm not reading any.
The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
Added Reply All. It's a brand new comic, so people may say "Give it time to improve." I'm sorry, I don't think it will. You can give me arguments otherwise.
Note: Countdown To Infinite Crisis does have listed an Awesome Moment (which I did place in a page), a Funny Moment (which I haven't yet), and at least one troper that thinks the work is So Bad, It's Good because of Narm.
This shakes my faith in this subpage in general...
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
Okay. Before anyone re-adds Rob Liefeld, let us note that he truly was popular for a while. Since popularity rules out being Horrible, that means he doesn't belong here. There would not have been so many imitators if people hadn't liked the original a little.
I might be willing to see reinstated the Image Comics era only.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
Crazyrabbits
Hmmm...while I personally didn't like Marvel Ultimatum, I'm not sure if it qualifies for the page.
Yes, a ton of characters were killed off needlessly. Yes, there were several out-of-character moments, and yes, it does feel very far removed from all of the series that preceded it.
Yet, besides the drop in sales from the first to second issue (27,000 people stopped reading the series), it was still in the top-ten highest selling comics in the country for it's entire run. People have also noted on The Other Wiki that the art is widely considered to be the best part of the series.
So...I don't know, what do you think?
Hide / Show Replies
No, it doesn't qualify — not if it had good art, and not when the first issue got critical approval. The plot progression would fit Wall Banger nicely, but this is just a spectacular failure, not a complete failure.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
Agreed. Most of the stuff listed was more Wall Banger than SBIH.
My name is Freezer and my anti-drug is porn.
I believe some of that stuff is listed in the appropriate subpage of Wall Banger.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
Cut this and put it here for now. I think there may be a valid Horrible entry in here, but I am not sure what it is. It is probably not "everything by Dreamwave except ''The War Within."
- Everything Dreamwave ever put out, apart from The War Within. The first volume relegated the Tansformers to supporting characters in their own series; the writer focused on boring, one-dimensional, cliched human characters. He also seemed to think that he was writing Xavier and Magneto, not Megatron and Optimus Prime. The plot was banal and idiotic; the art was sloppy. But all this was Shakespeare compared to volumes two and three, in which Brad Mick spent half his time seeing how many scenes he could rip off from the cartoons and the other half setting up plots that went nowhere.
Doctor Where
Being contractually obligated to make something doesn't fall under Money, Dear Boy, does it? (referring to the entry for one more day)
Well that was like playing a game of Whack-A-Mole where "mole" is defined as "Cthulhu". -Count Dorku Hide / Show Replies
Since this contract predates the series, it's Executive Meddling (to force the storyline to exist) probably crossed with Writer Revolt.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
So, this might sound weird, but I was introduced to Liberality for All by a group of newscast/fake newscast RPS fans I know in real life who find it absolutely hysterical. If I can find evidence of internet RPS fans feeling the same way, should it be moved? Or, since newscaster RPS is a relatively insular, uncommon fandom, should the idea just be dropped?
Hide / Show Replies
Fans of Real-Person Fic, especially the slash fans, need to keep a low profile because, for some reason, it's less socially acceptable than traditional fanfic. This would reduce its numbers, but would also make it hard to estimate what its numbers are.
I know that it's a real fandom — at least one lover of such fic did crossovers with the Beatles. (She seemed to hope that John Lennon would eventually go Republican.)
If the political RPS fans think Liberality for All is hilarious, then we should remove the work. Guilty Pleasure has come into play.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
Okay. I'm pretty sure it has an LJ following, I'll just have to ask above-mentioned friends about it.
I cut it....
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
It's super effective.
Can someone please rewrite the Chuck Austen section? There's just one huge unreadable dissimile about Romeo and Juliet or some shit like that.
Hide / Show Replies
I took a stab at rewriting it. That did hurt to read.
If you want more details on the "Romeo & Juliet tribute" or the communion wafer plot, they are covered under Wall Banger in the Comic Books section. For some reason, we have difficulty figuring out what a "unit" of comic book is; the whole of Chuck Austen's run on X Men is still only part of the X Men comic he wrote for, which is why things from his run get listed both places. I don't like the situation, but that's how we've been rolling.
Edited by AnonymousMcCartneyfan There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
Again — I thought that Rise of Arsenal was approved by the /co/ board?
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney Hide / Show Replies
I think you must've been confused.
I've never really seen anyone on /co/ show any signs of approval of it, in fact, i'm pretty sure most of /co/'s opinion on it is negative.
Cut this and put it here. We need to make sure it is not Vindicated by History before we put it back.
- Rise of Arsenal is the spiritual sequel to Cry for Justice, which ought to warn readers off. The story is jarringly offensive and bad. Attempts at gaining emotion from the reader feel forced and manipulative. Roy Harper is massively out of character even after considering that he's a grieving father. The art is often inconsistent. To sum up how bad this book can be: we get moments such as Roy beating up a bunch of thugs in an alley to protect a dead cat that he thinks is his dead daughter while he's strung out on heroin. ...Yes, that is in the comic.
- And it gets somehow WORSE when the grieving father brutally fights and then tries to have sex with his Dragon Lady ex-girlfriend and mother of the aforementioned dead daughter, only to have the scene end on an impotence joke. This book is the "gift" that keeps on giving.
- And yet again, Your Mileage May Vary. The time will soon come on whether this work will be Vindicated by History or not, but for now it will remain on here.
/co/ didn't like it from what I read, but they do poke fun at it's terrible-ness.
Is using /co/ to decide what's bad normal operating orders around here?
I have a top hat. Your Argument is invalid.
Oops...
My logic was that no work with a sincere fanbase should be listed. Works with a Bile Fascination fanbase can still qualify, however... And we do need to wait long enough to be sure that Vindicated by History won't come into play. Too much Ruined FOREVER ruins what credibility this index has.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
Lord of All He Devours
The Fred Basset entry? Why is it there? I mean there's no real reasons posted for why it should be, nor is description of it. I've never heard of the comic so I was wondering if someone was waiting to finish it or can it be deleted?
I have a top hat. Your Argument is invalid. Hide / Show Replies
It's been cut, but — Fred Basset is/was an old comic strip (it was around in the 1950s) about a non-anthropomorphic basset hound living in the kind of house that would be likely to have a basset hound back then. He's intelligent — we do get to read his thoughts. It's done in a realistic style for a comic (remember, 1950s, and before Peanuts)...
Under the circumstances, it might be hard to determine whether this really is unfunny or just too subtle humor for some of us. I think it was supposed to be The New Yorker type humor...
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
Yeah. Peanuts began in 1950. And according to Wikipedia, Basset was thirteen years later.
Regarding the removal of the Rise of Arsenal entry:
"None of that happened for the reasons listed."
I'm sorry, but what does that mean? What listed reasons is it referring to? And the "none of that happened" part? Are you telling me none of what was listed actually happened in the comic? Because if you are i'm actually completely sure you're wrong, and i have scans to prove it.
Seriously, what does "None of that happened for the reasons listed." mean?
Hide / Show Replies
I'd also like to add that if i don't get the explanation i seek by the end of the week, i'm putting the entry back up.
Edited by Homor
Some of these seem a lot more...mediocre...than I'd expect from a Horrible page.
Hide / Show Replies
The line between the bad end of So Okay, It's Average and So Bad Its Horrible proper isn't as firmly marked as one might think, which is why So Okay Its Average has an independent Troper Tales page but redirects to this index from the "Main" space. That goes double when you consider that squick isn't supposed to be a primary factor.
I truly dislike Sylvia, BTW, because it is unfunny, badly drawn, and illegible. I think it's a Love It or Hate It, though — I believe there are many people who believe the sentiments override the technical weaknesses. (It's like Left Behind, though from a different philosophy.)
Back when I regularly read newspaper comics, the paper I read them held popularity polls every so often to see what comics to cut so they could run new ones. Sylvia survived at least one such poll...
Speaking of which, is Zippy The Pinhead listed on this site? It made the bottom of the polls mentioned consistently, but the paper refused to act on that listing because it figured that comic was True Art...
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
Okay, it's listed, and it's Love It or Hate It, too.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
Cut this and put it here for now. No So Bad Its Horrible listing should include And The Fandom Rejoiced in its plot description... I'll put it here in case, but I suspect Ruined Forever is at work.
- WWE Heroes. Yes, WWE has made yet another venture into the comic realm. This time, it's decided to make wrestling's atmosphere here that "it's all staged", has given the villain past lives as Mordred, a Civil War soldier, and a freakin' Nazi, seems to make it take place in our reality...and this Troper's personal Wall Banger of the series...THEY KILL CHRIS JERICHO!
(My apologies. That was meant to be a new discussion.)
Edited by FarseerLolotea
Removed three DC entries. Looking through Amazon, Goodreads, Comixology, Reddit, Comicbookroundup, and several other review sites and blogs, they seem to be at worst mediocre or divisive. Also, the criticisms here seem to mostly about plot or character direction. Compare these to the entries of books that actually qualify, like Marville or Amazons Attack.
The YMMV page of Heroes in Crisis even says that it's divisive and that several critics liked it. It seems to along the lines of similar divisive crossover events (like Marvel's AXIS, which wouldn't qualify), not something that's one of the worst ever.
The entries for reference:
- Earth 2: World's End is pretty much the biggest knee-capping to a once-promising line of comics since Ultimatum (covered below). Running out of the already poorly received Tom Taylor run of the main book and the also disliked The New 52: Futures End, the comic is pretty much the culmination of the problems the books suffered from. Poor artwork, terrible continuity (with Dick Grayson's son changing names multiple times), an extremely bleak and unlikable tone, large amounts of time devoted to an In Name Only version of Dick Grayson who quickly became The Scrappy and all topped off by a co-writer who had literally no experience with superheroes.note It essentially killed interest in the Earth 2, which limped along for two more years before finally dying, missed by no one.
- Titans/Young Justice: Graduation Day. With just three issues, Judd Winick manages to show just how little he cares for either team: members of the Titans who left the team long ago are inexplicably still on it, a few somehow have powers they never did, and almost universally abysmal characterization across the board, especially from Nightwing, who acts like an idiotic jerkass right from the beginning. However, it goes beyond just laziness and into some new dimensional plane of utter incompetence. All the characters act like rookies despite having been superheroes for years, their enemies are overpowered as hell except when the plot decides they're not, the narrator has to spell out every single fucking thing for us because they can't be bothered to show it, and the comic kills off Omen and Donna Troy for no goddamn reason. And while Donna's death turns out to be a fake-out and she comes back later, Omen was Killed Off for Real up until the DC reboot in 2011. And Graduation Day completely glosses over her death as if she never mattered in the first place, but treats Donna's funeral, who isn't even dead, like a grandiose event. And then the comic has the gall to flat out call the Young Justice characters stupid, inept children who never knew what the hell they were doing. The entire series goes out of its way to disrespect both teams without even the smallest hint of effort and is just one middle finger to its fanbase after another. The worst part? The entire point of this series was just to launch two new book series with the characters on different teams. That's it. Linkara trashes all
three
issues here
.
- Heroes in Crisis, possibly the most hated DC story since Cry for Justice, more than fits the bill. Originally it was billed as a means to discuss mental health and trauma with superheroes, but advocates for mental health and trauma awareness were openly disgusted by the miniseries for how it treated such issues as just wallpaper for a mediocre Murder Mystery, loaded with horrible implications and bad retcons to either invent traumatic experiences where none existed or misrepresent the traumas of characters with existing mental issues due to improper research. The story ultimately makes little to no sense, with the last few issues having to bend back to justify the identity of the killer (who turns out to be Wally West; it was later confirmed that Wally being the killer was Executive Meddling from Dan DiDio, who was using the event as an in-canon Ron the Death Eater fic to soil a character he hated). Combined with art that, while initially praised, was soon soiled by the bizarrely over-sexual nature that included pornographic invasive injuries and dead bodies. With the book having completely killed the goodwill built by DC Rebirth, the story was so bad that the reputation of writer Tom King was severely tainted beyond repair, and pretty much every fan wants to retcon it out of existence. Linkara would review it as the finale for his Event Comics Month III, which starts here
.
- As of July 2021, Wally's role in the story was retconned, with a separate Speed Force surge being responsible for the deaths, not Wally's actions. Thus the story can no longer even be considered a murder mystery.
Edited by supergod For we shall slay evil with logic...