Hey - I feel like Camilla should stay put too, as she only officially moves over to being an actual family member in the last 20 minutes of the finale. Her narrative is mostly played out as Charles' "friend" :)
Edited by lexii
For Charles, I think this basic entry that doesn't argue with itself can be kept
- Tall, Dark, and Handsome: Both Josh O'Connor and Dominic West lend the Prince of Wales their gallant debonair of a leading-man.
Tall and dark do match, and then the two actors are quite attractive which permeates into the character for us viewers, the divergences from the real man are already written under Historical Beauty Upgrade
Edited by TrollBrutal Hide / Show Replies
I’m fine with this if it’s a commentary on the actors :)
We could maybe add:
Both Josh O'Connor and Dominic West lend the Prince of Wales the gallant debonair of a leading-man, even if their subject isn’t typically thought of as such.
(Or words to that effect!) Just to add a little more context.
Edited by lexii
It needs to be tweaked so it isn't a zero-context example, at least.
Right, it's one of those tropes where the name carries most of the meaning implicitly, but alas :)
- Tall, Dark, and Handsome: Both Josh O'Connor and Dominic West, with their 6ft 1 and comely dark-haired appearence lend the Prince of Wales their gallant debonair of a leading-man, even if their subject isn’t typically thought of as such
.
I thought that the world "lend" would imply that it's not his own or something like that, but we can make it more explicit...
Edited by TrollBrutal
As I said, debonair is not a noun. And it since it's clearly not played straight, isn't agreed as a subversion, and is only meant to apply to the actors and is long since better covered in Historical Beauty Upgrade, maybe there isn't a point in trying to force this one?
Aside from the fact that editing something back after another troper changes it is the definition of an edit war, how can you argue that the same guy who's a famous example of Ugly Guy, Hot Wife is supposed to be Tall, Dark, and Handsome?
Edited by harotype
Removing entries again where there is an ongoing discussion also falls into that, if we want to keep with the definitions. I readded it, partially, not back, with discussion, because it was clear lexii would agree with the non-contentious part , half of it, as was the case
Isn't debonair another adjective in that phrase? Right, the noun is missing, It was supposed to be the gallant, debonair appeareance of a leading-man. Minor thing
The character, as portrayed in the series is both tall, dark and handsome, isn't it ? So the two guys are either miscast or peculiar examples of Ability over Appearance, is he called ugly at some point in the series?
We need in-universe justifications to disqualify, I believe. For us viewers, Charles looks quite handsome, even if involutarily.
You could argue that the trope is not being T+D+H alone , but an intended archetype, and since the intention would be lacking , he's out. But the trope is not clear on it.
Edited by TrollBrutal
And the definition of an edit war is who starts it, not who continues it, so I suggest this not get turned into one.
Charles isn't necessarily Tall, Dark, and Handsome in-universe, no. No one treats Josh O'Connor's character that way (even Diana saying he's gorgeous is meant to signify she loves him, not that he actually is), and even West retains all the awkward mannerisms and there's not one person who specifically admires his appearance.
It doesn't matter whether we see O'Connor and West as handsome, that's Historical Beauty Upgrade.
And "their gallant debonair" is a noun phrase, not an adjective. Not really a minor thing when improper, nonsensical English is handwaved by several tropers for multiple edits.
Edited by harotype
That's fine, but with the same logic, Charles isn't neccesarily an example of Ugly Guy, Hot Wife in the series, why is he listed as "Exaggerated..." , does one person specifically underscores his ugliness?
From the trope : Note that it's Ugly Guy, not Average Guy
Edited by TrollBrutal
Because the entire world worships his wife for her beauty, which is a bit more than standard Ugly Guy, Hot Wife. If Charles was meant to be conventionally handsome or even ordinary-looking, we'd probably get a sense of that from the show — or he would be mentioned as better-looking than Camilla, and he's not. Instead Charles is depicted as the awkward, grimacing, large-eared guy we recognize as Charles, not as an Average Guy.
Edited by harotype
Good enough for me
I'll write some of the points addressed here overhauling his entries of Historical Beauty Upgrade & Ugly Guy, Hot Wife accordingly
West's performance should probably be under Ability over Appearance, but that's more of a work trope, I think, not a character trope.
I was about to move Camilla Parker Bowles to this page after the events of the finale, but I guess it is a narrative spoiler (everybody knows who she will become but not if the timeline of the series was going to cover it) so I think it is better if we keep her where she is now in the "friends" page for some time, if you agree
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