Discussion Characters / RWBYTeamJNPR

Unfortunately, the Expy trope has to be made explicit by the creators and is not meant for superficial similarities by fans and/or audiences alike.

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

This was added back to the Recap page by the same troper (also an Edit War there, too), so I've directed people to discuss here.

Just to note, however: Character development is something that is ongoing. It's not episode-specific, so no matter what trope is decided in the end, it won't be a Recap entry.

Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

This was removed from both this page and the Recap page as per ATT.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

This page suggests that she does fit, but I am not 100% sure.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I'd say she definitely fits the "air of grace and reserve" part; she speaks formally (her own voice actress constantly describes her way of speak as "grand", pronounced with a posh accent), is extremely polite, her armour's ornate compared to other characters' and she's treated with reverence by everyone else.

The only real divergence most examples of the trope is that she's styled after a Greek footsoldier instead of the more typical European or Japanese nobility. Her fighting style still involves a lot of ranged attacks (rifle, javelin, thrown shield) and her melee attacks involve a lot of flipping around with a sword and shield (the best comparison I can think of is Sophitia).

Edited by 86.12.226.175 TV Tropes's No. 1 bread themed lesbian. she/her, fae/faer

Sorry, posted in the wrong spot.

Edited by Taxima

Wrong place.

Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Wyldchyld - Rewatch the last bit of V4 after the Nuckleeve fight, most of us thought they'd finally got 'together together' then. This troper likely wrote it then, we don't see much in V5 or V6 to deny that it was happening off screen, granted JNPR was absent for most of V6.

• I'd reword the trope to say '- While they aren't 'together together' Nora certainly wants to be Ren's girlfriend and this does not stop her acting as one when he's injured.' Then list the examples.

Edited by PurpleElement

Fair enough then.

^^ Well, it's a new entry.

The problem with your suggested wording is that it runs into Examples Are Not Arguable issues.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Fair enough

Don't know what you're on about with the Edit War. I checked the history of the page before adding the entry. Only once was Senseless Sacrifice ever added for Pyrrha, and it was by portaljumper339. It was then removed by bladeofdarkness. That's it. Any other instances of Senseless Sacrifice added or removed from the page pertained to other characters. One for Nora sacrificing herself to save Ren from a Paladin, and one for a Reality Ensues entry for Jaune, both entries being nixed by you for misuse. There was no Edit War, since an Edit War would require someone to readd an entry that had been removed in blatant disregard for the edit removal. And even then, it would have to have occurred close to the original removal. The removal happened in 2016. Its been 3 years. No Edit War has happened.

And how does it sound complainy or have an inaccurate timeline? The timeline was:

• Amber gets killed
• Ozpin sends Jaune and Pyrrha away and tells them to call Glynda
• Jaune and Pyrrha get in the Elevator
• Ozpin and Cinder fight and Ozpin dies.
• Jaune and Pyrrha get out of the Elevator and witness Cinder fly up to the top of Beacon Tower.
• Pyrrha kisses Jaune and pushes him into a rocket locker to send him away before going to face Cinder.
• Jaune calls Ruby and Weiss begging them to stop Pyrrha.
• Pyrrha uses her Semblance to take the destroyed Elevator to the top of Beacon Tower.
• Cinder invites the Wyvern to the top of the tower.
• Cinder and Pyrrha begin their fight, and assuming cinematic time isn't in place, the fight lasts several minutes.
• Ruby runs up the side of Beacon Tower aided by Weiss' Gravity Glyphs.
• Pyrrha is shot in the heel and she and Cinder have their destiny talk.
• Ruby gets to the top and witnesses Cinder impale Pyrrha with an arrow and immolate her body. This serves as a Traumatic Superpower Awakening for Ruby's Silver Eyes.
• The Silver Eyes petrify the Wyvern and maim Cinder, taking her left arm and left eye.
• Ruby passes out and is rescued by Qrow and taken back to Patch.
• Beacon Tower falls, the Wyvern now a statue and serving as a magnet for Grimm to herd into Vale.
• Cinder is taken back to Evernight and undergoes healing with Salem over several months, her lost arm being replaced with the Geist like arm she now has.
• Ruby joins JNR and forms RNJR, the group leaving for Haven to find more info on Cinder. Ruby's Silver Eyes are ignored outside of one talk with Qrow when she wakes up.

That's the timeline of events. And Pyrrha's sacrifice, the entire reason she went up to stop Cinder, amounted to nothing, both from a motive standpoint and a narrative standpoint.

• Beacon Tower still fell.
• Any injuries Cinder sustained were healed and she ultimately came out stronger in the long run, as she now had a Grimm Arm that was more versatile, but she also had the full power of the Fall Maiden. The worst she still has is a lack of depth perception and that her Grimm Arm doesn't have Aura, both are which are rather negligible.
• Ruby's awakening of her Silver Eyes amounted to nothing other than the maiming of Cinder, as her power set wouldn't be explored for all of Volume 4 or 5 despite them only coming cause of Pyrrha's death. The one time they came up in Volume 5, when Jaune revealed himself as a Death Seeker and charged Cinder causing her to remember seeing Pyrrha die, they flashed for a sec before Emerald bashed her on the back of the head. The Silver Eyes ultimately mattered little until Maria was introduced, and with the explanation behind their activation, it made Pyrrha's triggering them rather than Penny a sudden Plot Hole, since Ruby was closer to Penny yet still said in Volume 5 she didn't know them that well, and witnessed both of them die, yet it was Pyrrha, the one she knew less, that awoke them.
• Pyrrha's entire reason for existing, to be the Sacrificial Lion and make the story shift to a darker tone, ultimately failed since Penny's death and Yang's dismemberment had already accomplished that, and the writing behind the circumstances of her death made so little sense that it caused numerous people to question why it was written that way.

So from both a meta perspective and a character perspective, Pyrrha's death accomplished nothing.

Edited by RebelFalcon Vegeta: I'm back bitches!

There was definitely a big fight about it at the time. Perhaps it occurred solely on the forum. I could have sworn it spilled over into a page, however, but my bad about the Edit War reference.

Beacon tower fell while Cinder and Pyrrha were still fighting, which was long before Ruby appeared on the scene.

The story has told us that Pyrrha didn't expect to win, not just from the perspective of comments that Ruby or Team JNPR have made, but from tropes such as the First Kiss simultaneously being the Last Kiss, which is usually a sign that the character initiating the kiss knows they're never coming back.

So, while Ozpin gave the order that the tower must not fall, Pyrrha never thought she could stop it from falling. She went because that's what Huntsmen do and she was the story's symbol of the ideal Huntsman, which is a narrative role and one that was pointed out in Volume 6 when Maria points that out and discusses her own failure to uphold such an ideal. Pyrrha also played the narrative role of being Ruby's Traumatic Superpower Awakening.

Everything else you're complaining about either has very little to do with Pyrrha's role or the role her death plays — for example, how Cinder handles being maimed (which occurs after Pyrrha is dead) and what she's like after she comes back from it; that's entirely about Ruby and the plot point that Cinder's got a critical weakness to Ruby's power. It also has nothing to do with how long a story might take to get around to exploring consequences of Pyrrha's death like the superpower that was awakened in Ruby.

As to whether Ruby knew Penny or Pyrrha better, that's just personal interpretation — but, again, even if the show had definitively claimed she did know Penny better than Pyrrha, you're just complaining that her superpower wasn't awakened by the character you'd prefer it to be awakened by.

You don't have to like the narrative role Pyrrha played and you don't have to like how well or badly it may have been written and explored since her death. However, you're treating Senseless Sacrifice like it's a YMMV trope, and it's not. The show does not treat it as a Senseless Sacrifice. It treats it as an Heroic Sacrifice.

Perhaps there's a YMMV trope where you can explore what you don't like about it.

Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

No, for the longest time the show doesn't treat it like a Heroic Sacrifice. For the longest time the narrative treats it as Pyrrha running off to die, with Jaune being the Audience Surrogate once more in his belief that the Ozluminati manipulated her into taking the role of the next Fall Maiden which led to the chain of events. The narrative treats Pyrrha's death as something for RNJR to suffer PTSD from and give them motivation behind going to Mistral. It's why before Volume 6 it was Fanon Pyrrha ran up there because she wasn't thinking straight from all the stress and pressure! The only time it is ever treated as a Heroic Sacrifice and the entire spiel about her going off cause "That's what Huntsmen do" came in Volume 6 with the Red Haired Woman, and the scene reads like an attempted Author's Saving Throw. Except much like with their attempt to make Ruby come across as a better protagonist, said throw failed. People still questioned the logic and pointed out that if it was supposed to be an Aesop, it was a Broken Aesop that invoked numerous bouts of Fridge Logic.

• Just to list an example, even if pray tell she still thought along those lines, why didn't she call Glynda before doing her move? She sent Jaune away an emotional mess, and you expect her to trust him, the dude who wears his heart on his sleeve and lets his emotions control him, to be rational and call her after that? You can't even argue there wasn't time to waste since a call would take less than a minute.

So just as people point out that narratively Ruby doesn't come across as better like the Author's Saving Throw intended, it should be allowed to say that the narrative reason they gave for Pyrrha's death doesn't work.

---

So it's complainey to point out Fridge Logic now huh? I'm not complaining cause I'm upset Ruby didn't wake up her powers to Penny's death, I questioning how the hell does any of it make sense with what the show established? According to Maria, to trigger the eyes, the user has to focus on the people they cared for, the people they loved and cherished. But by the logic of the show, Penny and Pyrrha were two people Ruby barely knew and was able to shrug off the deaths of in Volume 5, so they shouldn't fall under the umbrella of "cared for" or "loved". That's like me saying the guy I had a few classes with in High School but only talked to three times was someone I cared for allowing me to unlock some Super Saiyan like powers when I see him decapitated in front of me! The show tried to brush off Ruby's Angst? What Angst? to Penny and Pyrrha's deaths in Volume 5 by claiming she barely knew them, yet the entire reasoning behind her powers is that she has to think of someone she cares for, so for her to have cared for Penny and Pyrrha that much, why didn't she angst?! And if she didn't angst, why did they fall under the umbrella of cared for! The logic the show tries to provide makes no goddamn sense!

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But lets stay on track shall we. According to the CRWBY, the metatextual reasoning behind Pyrrha's conception was that she was intended to be the Sacrificial Lion.

• The Sacrificial Lion, by definition, is "a sympathetic character who is slated to die so that the audience knows that the villain is playing for keeps or that the situation really is as dangerous and desperate as it seems. The death is ultimately unnecessary in the large scheme of things, but it does provide a shocking twist to the proceedings."

But there are two problems with that in regards to Pyrrha.

• First off is that for her to be the Sacrifical Lion, her death would have to be the sign shit got real. But it isn't. Penny's death was that sign, and you can't say "But she's back so she didn't really die" since by Pietro's own phrasing, she did indeed die. Watch any reaction, read any review, ask any troper, and they'll tell you that Penny's death is the moment the show got Darker and Edgier. Now, you can argue that Penny's death had a reason behind it to further Cinder's plans, so that should disqualify her from being it based on the second point, but it doesn't change the fact that the intended purpose behind the death of the Sacrificial Lion is to show the story is getting darker. By time Pyrrha's death occured, that was already established. So her being killed to highlight that was meaningless.
• By very nature of the trope, the Sacrificial Lion has to have an unnecessary death. Pyrrha's death however was necessary. Not only did it kick start Jaune's true development, it was her death that got team RNJR into investigating Cinder, meaning for all intents and purposes, Pyrrah's death should be a plot point. But again, per the writing of the trope: "If their death is directly vital to the story (such as a political assassination), then it ceases to be a "sacrificial" character and becomes plot-relevant." So Pyrrha can't be the Sacrificial Lion if her death was a Plot Point.

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Next of course we have the Senseless Sacrifice. According to the definition of the trope:

• "A Senseless Sacrifice is Exactly What It Says on the Tin. It's a downer counterpart to a Heroic Sacrifice, because rather than kill the bad guy, fulfill the prophecy, or allow the other survivors to escape alive... it doesn't. The Big Bad survived the Self-Destructive Charge, the prophecy actually meant The End of the World as We Know It would start with a selfless sacrifice, and the boat the survivors escaped on has no fuel.
• This usually happens to anyone who isn't The Hero or the Messianic Archetype while attempting a Heroic Sacrifice, especially before the Season Finale, because 'only the hero can save the day'. It may serve as fuel for Heroic Resolve and/or an Unstoppable Rage later, not that it helps the dead martyr. Typically, the Red Shirt Army charging like boars will have this happen to them, with the protagonists lamenting "What a Senseless Waste of Human Life".
• For this trope to be subverted does not require that it have been a Heroic Sacrifice. What needs to happen is that the previously "senseless" sacrifice was actually either a Batman Gambit on the martyr's part to create an exploitable weakness for the hero to use later, or doing so by sheer dumb luck."

So first, we need to examine Pyrrha's so called "Heroic Sacrifice".

• According to the definition of the trope: "A character saves another/others from harm and is killed, crippled, or maimed as a result."
  • So right away she is disqualified from the Heroic Sacrifice trope. Why? Because her death did jack shit. She didn't save anyone, she didn't stop Cinder's efforts, nor did she really help in the long run. Completely ignoring Ruby awakening her SEW, Pyrrha's attempt to go up there and stop Cinder failed the moment the CCT was destroyed. Ozpin was dead. Beacon was being evacuated. Her entire reason for going up there was pointless because Cinder had already won.
• Now look back at the definition of Senseless Sacrifice. The definition says the sacrifice has to ultimately accomplish nothing, and that even if the attempt instilled feelings into other characters, the thing that matters is that it was a failed Heroic Sacrifice. As far as Pyrrha knew, she was the only one left. She had no idea anyone would come. So she faced off against Cinder thinking she could make a difference, and failed. Her Heroic Sacrifice failed. It was a Senseless Sacrifice.

---

I'm using actual trope definitions to build my argument, but if you write this off as complaining again, I'll be taking this to the Ask The Tropers to see if they think it applies. I figured I'd just say this to you first to see if you'll see reason and actually understand my argument, but if that isn't the case, I'll be doing so.

Edited by RebelFalcon Vegeta: I'm back bitches!

Okay, looking through what I've said to you I think I need to clarify something because I can see I haven't explained myself at all on that subject, and I apologise for that confusion: when I say a post is complaining, I'm not saying that the troper who made the post has no valid concern to raise. I'm saying that the way it's been expressed is coming across as complaining. Sometimes I'll have an additional issue with the trope that's been chosen, but that doesn't mean I think there's no reason for fans to be complaining about something (hell, sometimes I even agree with the complaint). I tend to be working from the Administrivia advice that we shouldn't word tropes in a complaining way — and I am guilty of that, too.

I can make sure I'm much clearer in future about this.

To break down the entry to clarify why I brought it here, I'll start with the first half of the entry here:

• Senseless Sacrifice: In the grand scheme of things, her Heroic Sacrifice doesn't amount to much. After Cinder successfully kills Ozpin and attempts to destroy Beacon Tower, Pyrrha sends Jaune away and tries to take on Cinder herself despite the clear power difference. She only lasts several minutes before she is shot through the heart and immolated as a result.

As far as I'm concerned, this part is fine. It's representative of how the show unfolded and I don't have a problem with the content of it here.

It's the remainder of the entry that made me bring it here:

• While in that time Ruby did manage to make it to the top of Beacon Tower and her death served as a Traumatic Superpower Awakening for Ruby's Silver Eyes, the most that did was petrify the Grimm Wyvern and maim Cinder, both of which had little bearing down the line.

The part of the sentence that's fine is this:

• While in that time Ruby did manage to make it to the top of Beacon Tower and her death served as a Traumatic Superpower Awakening for Ruby's Silver Eyes, the most that did was petrify the Grimm Wyvern and maim Cinder,

The small remainder "...both of which had little bearing down the line." creates the impression that the Vale situation is still directly relevant to the current plot line for us to know it's had 'little bearing'. It's not well explained.

This bit below is where the timeline of your entry becomes inaccurate and is where the entry comes across as complaining.

• Beacon Tower still fell, the petrified Wyvern serves as a magnet for more Grimm to attack Beacon, and Cinder's lost arm was easily replaced with a more powerful Grimm arm, meaning in the end, Pyrrha's death accomplished nothing.

The reason it comes across as an inaccurate timeline is because the tower had already fallen even before Cinder and Pyrrha had finished fighting. Now, if you want to argue that all that does is prove that Pyrrha's sacrifice was senseless because Ozpin told her the tower must not fall and she couldn't even stop it from falling while she was still alive then I'm with you 100%. But the way the entry is written makes it seem like all the Ruby stuff came before the tower fell. Also, the section suffers from the same current relevancy issue that the other sentence has, which is that Vale just isn't relevant right now and Pyrrha's death was very Beacon-specific. The whole part of this section therefore just doesn't come across well.

What I would suggest is to revamp the second half of the entry. You don't have to use this at all (and I don't think I'm conveying this as well as I would like to either), I'm just putting this together to give you an example of what I'm thinking and what I'm trying to express in the whole post I've made:

• Senseless Sacrifice: In the grand scheme of things, her Heroic Sacrifice doesn't amount to much. After Cinder successfully kills Ozpin and attempts to destroy Beacon Tower, Pyrrha sends Jaune away and tries to take on Cinder herself despite the clear power difference. She only lasts several minutes before the tower is destroyed and she is shot through the heart and immolated. While in that time Ruby did manage to make it to the top of Beacon Tower and Pyrrha's death served as a Traumatic Superpower Awakening for Ruby's Silver Eyes, the most that did was petrify the Grimm Wyvern and maim Cinder. While the petrified Grimm serves as a magnet for more Grimm to attack Beacon, the plot line moved away from Vale and has been exploring the rest of the world ever since. Having removed the relevancy of the dragon's petrification, and with Cinder quickly gaining a more powerful replacement Grimm arm, Pyrrha's death therefore accomplished nothing.

Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Okay, I understand this was more an issue of miscommunication now. Sorry I seemed cross, I just though you were writing off my issues as complaining. I understand now though.

And yes, the writeup you gave actually does sound good and still explains what I was going for. So if you'd be willing, I think this version is good enough to add.

Vegeta: I'm back bitches!

If you're fine with that write up, then feel free to add it. If you want to make any changes and then add it, I'm fine with that, too.

I apologise for the miscommunication recently. I'm aware that I waffle a lot. However, when I try and work on making my posts more concise, I either come across as abrasive or I don't convey my intention well. I'm still working on trying to find a good balance.

Also, apologies for the delay in responding to your other post. For some reason new posts on this discussion page aren't flagging in my watch list. I'm not sure why. The other discussion pages do.

Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Per the trope: Everyone loves flashy magic, BF Gs, and big, thundering tanks. However, the more interesting something is, the more likely it falls victim to the rule of Awesome, but Impractical: You can't use it often enough, it costs too much, or it just takes too much effort to get it. You could even have Cool, but Inefficient, where it just looks awesome, but that is about it.

Therefore, we have things that are much more "boring" and normal, but these things often contribute more to your success in the long term than the visually more impressive things. The Reliable Ones, if you will.

Boring is in quotations because it doesn't mean it's flat out "boring" as much as not as impressive as other things. Jaune can't do something like move at fast speeds like Ruby, can't do clones, can't get empowered by lightning...a lot of this is very flashy visually. There is a dramatic flare to them, particularly when you consider how RWBY runs on Rule of Cool. Jaune's Semblance (and Ren's for that matter) don't have that kind of "cool". It's simple compared to what say the Schnee Semblance allows. What Yang's Semblance lets her do. Jaune just is tougher and can provide that boost to others.

Edited by LovePsychothefirst

A justification to Personality Powers isn't a requirement. More often than not it's just their personality fitting their powers or vice versa.

That said, the examples seemed like... a reach. I don't watch the show but they come across more as based upon interpretation and symbolism that isn't made apparent in the work, in which case they shouldn't be there.

Edited by Larkmarn Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.

Pretty much nobody looks at discussion pages and you know it.

Everything is a guesswork to some extent, especially with tropes such as this. Characters are not going to openly state "I have gotten significantly more cynical, definitely enough to make me fit under TV Tropes definition of the trope Took a Level in Cynic" By this standards I could probably delete half of the page because I personally don't think there is enough evidence for some trope applying. If you want, I can add another example or two.

Edited by Tharkun140 Apathy is Death. Worse than Death, because at least a rotting corpse feeds beasts and insects.

Sorry to ask you this (I'm not experienced with handling images) but could you replace Jaune's current post-timeskip appearance with the one in the RWBY Wikia? It's just that his head looks awfully shaped in the current one.

I'd say that weak but skilled is the one that applies to him, he isn't particularly fast and he doesnt seem to deal enough damage to qualify for glass cannon status.

...In his first ever fight scene he blew up a monster's head by palming it.... How the fuck is that weak but skilled? He's much more fragile speedster than anything else(he's also the first to fall from exhaustion in volume 1 against the deathstalker).

I don't really think they have enough similarities to make him an Expy.

The Color Naming Rule states that all characters must be named after a color and, while it's not directly stated, all the names so far that resemble a color are the first names. Ruby, Weiss, Blake, Yang, Jaune, Nora, Pyrrha and finally Ren which refers to the flower Lotus hence Ren meaning pink.

If the first names are the ones that must resemble a color then the fact that Ren fits the Color Naming Rule proves that Ren is his first name and Lie the last name.

Ren is his first name, his name is just set up in the Hungarian/Asian ordering.

And any part of the name can reference a color. James isn't referring any color, but Ironwood is.

Also the entry is wrong: Sky Lark of CRDL has his surname used in his team name.

Find that source I'd be cool with it.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

He's not a Casanova Wannabe. He falls for Weiss and is single-minded about her until he finally accepts that she won't return his feelings. After that, he appears to be falling for Pyrrha until... well, we know what happens there.

A Casanova Wannabe is more like Neptune - someone who chases every skirt he comes across, but doesn't get anywhere with the vast majority of them.

Exclude that bit, and run with the rest (if you can find the source).

Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Already been asked in Query Bugs.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

While I personally disagree with the ban on hiding trope names, I feel like not listing a trope is going a little too far.

It's a joke. The whole thing was part of a joke montage.

What's more, DAN has repeatedly insisted this was done without her Semblance, which is impossible. In the RWBY world, you can be incredibly strong, and use Aura to boost yourself, but that can only go so far. 2,000 pounds is by far entirely too much for someone of a rather petite 5'2" to dead lift. Nora is capable of intense feats of strength but she has to supercharge her muscles with electricity to do this: this is canon.

When I keep saying "gag barbells exist" I'm being straight-up. I'm talking fake barbells that read as more than they actually weigh. At any rate, it was a throwaway scene only designed to showcase Nora's willingness to help pump up Pyrrha. It was never designed to tell us Nora can deadlift two thousand pounds without help.

I agree that if we followed DAN's logic then we should be adding one of these:

• Flash Step: She's capable of changing into her gym outfit in less than a second.

• Crazy-Prepared: She's always carrying her gym outfit underneath her clothes.

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It has to be just a joke. Nothing else.

Edited by LadWatcher

I'm inclined to agree. We do know she's exceptionally strong, but if anyone wants to make the trope stick, they'll have to find other evidence for it, and not rely on the gag scene for that "proof".

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Depending on which kanji they wanted to use, at least.

MAX POWER KILL JEEEEEEEEWWWWW

A name can mean more than one thing and fill meanings in several different ways. For example, "Fall" can mean a season in English, or a verb, to use an example from the show itself.

Of all the characters in the show, only Weiss seems to go down as easily as he does. At any rate, there's a reason it's an Ironic Name and not a Meaningful Name. One doesn't really have to be set up, the other does.

Edited by SilenceInTheLibrary

Ironic Name, as written, implies a deliberate set-up. Usually Played for Laughs (which his endurance of Nora may be, given that the creators have joked about it) but sometimes done seriously.

Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Either way, what's the problem?

That's... almost assuredly a coincidence. It can go on Hilarious in Hindsight on YMMV, but it doesn't belong on the page.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.

I've never heard of "hunter" being used as a term for a color before.

I believe this trope is a good way to define Pyrrha's current situation. She is The Ace, The Confidant, the Team Mom but Fall reduced her to a normal teenager when it gave her a challenge that has her on the edge which leads me to these requirements of the trope:

They may be good at hiding it but they feel just as much as the rest of us. In order to qualify, the show of emotion must be a significant one, not just a small smile or subtle frown.

Her actions in Volume 2 wouldn't qualify because these were subtle and not strong enough. At that time she was in control of her emotions. If she wasn't then she wouldn't have been able to push Jaune away so he could pursue Weiss and would have broken down when she explained him how sad she truly felt. But in Destiny she tried to do the same thing to explain him what was happening to her and how she felt about the whole thing. Only this time she breaks down and lets out her strong emotions without a semblance of subtlety.

Edited by LadWatcher

TL:DR Butt Monkey =/= Feminine and Warrior =/= Masculine

Pyrrha even has shown to be incredibly feminine. Her appearance, her kindness and her status as Jaune's love interest resemble traits of the Girl Next Door which is the definition of a character who's charm comes from how feminine she is.

Edited by LadWatcher

Have the two of you resolved Fatal Flaw, because it's been added back without edit reason? I don't want to remove it from the page with an edit reason related to the Discussion Page if the two of you have resolved it. But, as it's currently written, it's very much trope misuse.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

I started this since DAN added the trope again and wrote this reason: Even if he grew out of it, it's still notable as a trope because it happened in the past. I assume he's talking about the Fatal Flaw but it's clearly a misunderstanding. That's why I explained in here since I thought people might still wanna discuss about this. But I think I should have just sent a PM to DAN.

Anyway. Trope was added back for a misunderstanding. It's still a trope misuse so I'm deleting it.

Edited by LadWatcher

it definitely applies to Pyrrha, but there's no info to say if it applies to Jaune, Nora and Ren have been friends for a long time so they really dont count even if they had no other friends.

Now that's what I call an argument.

MAX POWER KILL JEEEEEEEEWWWWW

But in ep.9 vol.1 when he's late for class with his friends, he WAS the one behind.

Gotta rewatch ep.8 for more.

MAX POWER KILL JEEEEEEEEWWWWW

Apologies, I didn't know an extra response had ever been made to this.

When late for class, Pyrrha was the one trailing behind the group. I don't think anyone has ever claimed she's the slowest member of the group.

On the basis of the show to date, we have absolutely no genuine idea which member of any team is the slowest one in their group. All we've got is fan speculation and interpretation. That's not trope-worthy.

Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Agreed. I just can't see any ZCE's that would get an entire folder deleted.

This should really be hashed out on the Discussion Page, which is what I tried to do. I didn't start a new post because I could see that you'd already tried to start one (you probably should have flagged it in the edit history, so people would have known to look).

I removed the entry to bring it to the Discussion Page. However, I could see you'd already tried to start a post, so I didn't start a new thread. I thought that would be redundant.

My reason for removing it to Discussion was because the person who readded it ignored the edit reason that included (but wasn't limited to) ZCE being an issue, and because so many people have now removed/readded, it would be best for a consensus to be hashed out so this doesn't happen again.

On my part, I don't care whether general folders appear on the character page. I do think it's silly, but I don't care if that's what people decide. My issue lies solely with ZCE and the fact people periodically argue about this without ever reaching resolution, and each time, the edit reasons get a little nastier.

I thought pulling to Discussion was the wisest option, along with flagging the fact you had already tried to start a discussion about this that could do with being responded to.

Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Just my opinion: Ren looks like he's "above it all" because he looks like he's the most rational out of the team. That's what you get for playing the Straight Man to... someone like Nora.

MAX POWER KILL JEEEEEEEEWWWWW

The trope isn't about rational or quiet people. It's not even about a Straight Man - it's only about a Straight Man if they refuse to allow themselves to be brought down to the level of others.

In Ren's case, he was no more conscious of the passage of time than the rest of his team (only Weiss spotted they were late for their first ever class, which is what alerted JNPR), the first major "chaos" incident that occurs (the food fight), he immediately joins in on. There's only one occasion when he didn't join in - that was at the library, when he was trying to work, and Neptune was like-minded (that scene, not the food fight, is the closest he ever gets to the trope, but one-off's do not a trope make). He also got into Nora's bad books over food in a very minor noodle incident.

He's a Straight Man to be sure, but he hasn't set himself a standard that he refuses to be dragged down from yet. He's got more examples of going with the flow or sharing the mistakes of others than trying to be above it all.

Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Well Pyrrha is a redheaded Heroine and is very interested in a Hero archetype. Honestly though, this is a vague trope that is based off the trivia that Hero love- interests are Red heads a lot of the time, so it's not hard to meet the requirements or the inversion. Technically it meets the standards if there is a hero and red head.

It should be simple enough - a readhead wants the hero. Can be of either gender too, for both.

Wyldchyld, you're just overthinking it.

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It's a Zero-Context Example anyhow. Not good even if it was true.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

And a trope can have more than one way to invert it.

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Honestly, I needed some help seeing how the example applied to the trope even as an inversion. So, thank you, Laughing Fist, for having a go at doing that.

Still, examples shouldn't be restored to a page while they're still under discussion. Dan, I think your rewrite is still pretty generic and zero context. Based on what Laughing Fist says, I'd probably suggest something like this (although it's got too much word-cruft as written):

• Heroes Want Redheads: The redheaded Pyrrha is a world-renowned athlete and fighter who struggles to form meaningful releationships as a result of the pedestal people have placed her on. This changes when she meets Jaune, whose non-Hunter background left him ignorant of her fame but who needs her guidance due to his desire to become a protector of the people. He treats her like a real person, has helped her form true and lasting friendships, and she's fallen hard for him as a result.

Edited by 2.97.135.4 If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.