Confession0791
How does Sam qualify as a Jerk with a Heart of Jerk? Also, I notice she is listed as Chaotic Evil. Character Alignment tropes aren't supposed to be listed unless they're given in-universe. Regardless, she's not evil, just an extreme Jerkass.
Mack keeps saying it was a platonic love as friends on trope pages. Nowhere was it said it was a friendship love. They kissed and made out for 90 minutes after they declared there love for each other. So mods keep an eye on Mack.
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The two of you are both engaged in a shipping war, which can only end in bad things for one or both of you. Let's cut it out now.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Just in case someone goes here instead of main page.
Sam/Freddie isn't an Official Couple yet. They are 3 episodes into a 5 episode arc. They could end the arc split up, separated, not together. They could have a Ship Sinking. We don't know what is going to happen yet, so calling them an Official Couple is premature. Wait the 2 weeks until the arc ends, and if they are still together you can go ahead and put them as the Official Couple.
Please don't edit them in again for a third time.
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No, it isnt. They are an official couple. When/If they are not a couple, they can be removed. Seriously.
You know what.
Fine.
Whatever. I really can't care enough to continue an edit war that's going to end one way or another in two weeks.
User: theschwab34 removed legitimate trope entries.
He removed the Jerk Ass Sue entry despite it being exactly what was discussed in the above conversation, and also Jerkass Dissonance (which is not a YMMV trope) despite Sam clearly qualifying for the majority of the qualifications and that the trope itself says.
Heroes who commit morally dubious actions can also fall here.
I have sent him a helpful PM explaining the use of the discussion topics and that we try not to take unilateral action.
This discussion entry here is in case he wants to explain his actions, and why he feels that Sam doesn't qualify for Jerkass Dissonance despite the list of ways in which she does.
Have cleaned up the trope, but here are the full reasons:
- 1) Wish Fulfillment. Check. Who wouldn't want to go around abusing teachers, hitting people, failing in school and never getting punished for it, along with having an awesome friend like Carly and her brother Spencer to really take care of you?
- 2) Fictional. Duh.
- 3) Freudian Excuse. Yes, Yes and Yes.
- 4) As part of the Power Trio she is drawn in far greater detail than the rest of the world.
- 5) The Villain Makes the Plot.. well, she's not a villain, but her villainous actions do drive the plot quite often.
- 6) Draco In Leather Pants. A textbook example of a Jerkass protagonist getting this treatment.
- 7) Comedic Sociopathy. Against Freddie, Gibby, random strangers, anyone who is a villain in an episode... basically everyone but Carly.
- 8) As a Jerk Ass Sue in a comedy her writing is quite shallow, but her fans apply extreme levels of Subtext through what detail she does have about 3, which then apply to her being a Draco In Leather Pants and as a justification for her Comedic Sociopathy.
- 9) Not a villain so it doesn't quite apply to her.
But the fact remains that YMMV tropes do not go in character pages, and long analyses like this do not go in character or YMMV pages. If something is where it shouldn't be, there's no need to get consensus on removing it.
(I realize I could be entirely wrong, and I apologize if I am, but as far as I know there haven't been any recent rule changes about this stuff.)
Edited by ProgenyExMachina
Oh. Sorry. I mis-read your post in the discussion above, was quite late at night when I did that. I thought you said we should leave a note on the character page which is why I left it there, and then put the main thing in YMMV.
I've instead created an analysis page and moved both the Purity Sue and Jerk Ass Sue entries there, with a line indicating that on the YMMV page.
That should sort out once and for all the "Mary Sue" issue.
Edited by mack
Okay, after seeing the Mary Sue tropes around, I decided to make it clear exactly how and why Sam is. Any comments?
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No matter how thought-out and organized it is, it's still highly subjective and doesn't belong on this page. And long arguments like that don't belong on any page, even YMMV — best take that kind of thing to forums, and just list the trope (on YMMV, not Characters) with a brief one-sentence allusion like "some people think this applies".
Ah yes. It just happened to be where it was built. I wasn't sure at the time if despite being YMMV it was still a character trait due to how overwhelming she fits the tropes.
I'll fix it up and move it over later tonight.
I have moved it. Consider what you have said about 'long arguments', I'll open a discussion on the main article about it.
Never Trust
- To jtmmachine: Yes, we do because they apply. At worst they're YMMV. And you really shouldn't have done such a sweeping deletion without at least discussing it. Have you even actually watched the show?
Alright, maybe I shouldn't have deleted all that as quickly as I did. My apologies. I just don't really see what the point is in having all that stuff about the physical development of teenage girls over the course of four years. All the stuff I removed doesn't have anything to do with their actual character, it's just people concentrating on parts of the character that they find sexy which, in my opinion, is kinda weird and should just be moved to YMMV if it has to be kept. As for the Ambiguously Jewish removal, it was confirmed that she isn't Jewish, so there isn't really a point in having that trope.
I added them back in. It's not the first time it's come up.
It doesn't matter that the show involves teenagers. Being a teen Kid Com doesn't make those tropes invalid. It's very common in kid/tween/teen shows to include fanservice of some sort to attract audiences of both genders, make the show palatable or attractive to college kids, people who have to babysit the target market and parents of the kid target market. In this case it just happens to basically be Miranda Cosgrove as the fanservice, with Jennette coming up in later seasons.
You might not like it but they aren't wrong to use if they apply.
For example, Suppressed Mammaries for Sam is essentially a perfect example of the trope, regardless of how 'wholesome' it might be, as one of the first appearances she made at a kid's choice awards drew full attention to the fact that the iCarly crew were obviously dressing Sam to minimise her bust.
Edited by mack
Pulled:
Pettanko is not a trope. UsefulNotes.Pettanko is a fanspeak term definition only. The tropes are A-Cup Angst (girl is sensitive about her lack of size) or Petite Pride (girl is proud of her flat-chestedness). Anything else is not a trope. Please return this example to the page under the correct trope if (and only if) it fits one of those two tropes.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.