did Shizuru actually "rape" Natsuki? Was it an innocent, if stolen kiss? here's the discussion from the main page
- Shizuru is actually innocent of rape. Note how Natsuki's "flashbacks" about it have the same POV as scenes of her sleeping, but scenery and Natsuki's lying figure are mirrored, indicating that sequence is imaginary.
- I dispute your conclusion, good sir! My understanding is that there were two different incidents, one of a kiss and an earlier one witnessed by Yukino that went further than that (to be fair, just how far it went is not shown explicitly)
- We have only Yukino's word for that, and she's not exactly the most reliable of narrators. This Troper always thought that the above interpretation was correct.
- I think that Yukino's narration was fairly reliable, given Shizuru's return accusation that Yukino likes to watch as well as a visual of what she was narrating.
Shizuru: You prefer watching other people. That's quite a hobby.
- This troper finds the scene in question to be very much open to interpretation and difficult to prove either way. While interested in discussing the matter, I suggest further discussion of this issue take place on the discussion page.
- I dispute your conclusion, good sir! My understanding is that there were two different incidents, one of a kiss and an earlier one witnessed by Yukino that went further than that (to be fair, just how far it went is not shown explicitly)
- Shizuru is actually innocent of rape. Note how Natsuki's "flashbacks" about it have the same POV as scenes of her sleeping, but scenery and Natsuki's lying figure are mirrored, indicating that sequence is imaginary.
I believe the conclusion of rape is sustainable, given Shizuru's tearful pleas for forgiveness afterwards. Plus, whether you feel Yukino is a reliable narrator or not, the way she phrased her accusation, "I saw what you did." and "How could you do something like that, to someone who trusts you as a friend?", isn't something one would associate with a simple stolen kiss.
Edited by bweb
Haruka seems to place the blame on both Shizuru and Natsuki ("Two women behaving like that with each other... you're filthy! Both you AND Natsuki Kuga!"), which angers Shizuru, who points out that she was the only one who acted. This would also suggest that Haruka believes it was consensual (or doesn't care whether it was). Shizuru is presumably asking forgiveness for 1)forcing Natsuki to fight against her and causing both their deaths and 2)taking steps against Natsuki's "enemies" that Natsuki doesn't approve of (Natsuki attempts to summon Duran when it appears Shizuru is going to attack Yukino and Haruka, and saves Nao from being finished off). Natsuki wakes up after dreaming of Shizuru kissing her, but initially denies it only to overhear Haruka and Yukino confirm it.
As for what Yukino saw, from the way the flashback shows it, it's through a window in silhouette, and Shizuru's actions after lying down cannot clearly be seen. It's possible that Yukino thought something else was going on and jumped to conclusions, or saw the kiss (which she witnessed with her own eyes, and which is considered more important in Japan) as the only thing she could confront Shizuru about.
The rape charge is rather weak, when you consider Shizuru's almost horrified reaction to having been caught stealing a kiss from a sleeping Natsuki (who at the moment is recovering from her injuries, but not paralyzed or drugged). However, Yukino's accusation merely evokes a cold response, and Yukino's own hesitation to bring it up rings more of an improvised sentence. Also, consider the moment in the exchange she declares on such an event: after pleading with Shizuru to come back to the Academy and acknowledge Haruka, with Shizuru refusing. It plays out more like blackmail/extortion. And yes, that Japanese style screen door leaves pretty much to the imagination. W Ith Natsuki only shown injured from her shoulder and not unconscious from previous scenes, she would've probably been able to detect any funny business going on. The worst Shizuru might have done is simply sleep naked next to her. Interesting enough, Natsuki only dreams about that stolen kiss.
Pulled:
- Adult Child: Midori. It turns out later on that she was almost certainly faking it.
Adult Child has been renamed to One of the Kids. In order for this to be an example of the trope, the character's childishness has to be from or demonstrated by interacting with children. This example can be added back with context relevant to the trope if it fits.
"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."
One thing that often gets incorrectly stated on this Wiki is the idea that Mikoto killed Takumi. It certainly seems that way to Mai, Mikoto and the viewer at the time, but in Episode 24, Shiho confirms that she struck the killing blow.
(Mai dodges Yatagarasu's laser, then gasps as she has a flashback in which Yatagarasu strikes Gennai in midair, and it bursts into green flames as it hits the ground)
- Mai: Could it be?
- Shiho: Don't run away! Lose, just like that toad!
- Mai: (horrified) You got Akira-kun and Takumi?
- Shiho: Because Onii-chan pays attention only to you.
- (Mikoto gasps while looking on in hiding)
- Mai: Kagutsuchi!
- Mikoto: It wasn't me? Then... (She briefly looks relieved until she reflects on how she was responsible for defeating Fumi and Midori)
someone
Removed:
Highly recommended, though there is disagreement among fans as to the effectiveness of part of the climax.
something
Why does this keep getting listed as shounen? I can understand the manga version since it was serialized in a magazine called "Weekly Shounen Champion," but I don't think the TV series should count. According to this link: http://cal.syoboi.jp/tid/407/time
, its original time slot was 1:30 AM. If it was a shounen, I highly doubt they would put it in a time slot when most of the target audience was asleep.
"Highly recommended, even though part of the climax and the peppy, comedic tag to the final episode undo many of the show's earlier subversions and weaken its overall impact." — That is far too subjective for an intro section. I'm not sure whether it would be better to amend or completely remove it (though I would like to keep "highly recommended" :P )
I've posted this in the Just Bugs Me, but I'd like to politely ask again for the detailed arguments against Adults Are Useless in this series.
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1) Midori is an adult and while she may initially seem very carefree, she later proves to be far more level headed than the teenagers among the Hi ME. They flounder and get confused when the pressure is on, she doesn't. She's also arguably the great unsung hero of the series, seeing as how it was her willingness to sacrifice something she cared about that set in motion the chain of events that allowed the Hi ME to emerge victorious. Admittedly she was taking a huge gamble when she did that, but the point in she was still willing to sacrifice something she cared about for the sake of her students.
2) Natsuki's informants provide her with a considerable amount of useful information. Additionally, one of them bales her, Mai, and Mikoto out of a mess they got themselves into.
3) They may be ignorant of a lot of the stuff that's going on around them, but from what little we see of them many of the adults seem to be perfectly competent within their professional spheres. The school nurse is a good example of this (well, aside from her habit of getting drunk after work).
Edited by 96.55.144.125
I have a question about the song "TOMORROW'S TRUE" by Misato Aki, which my wife gave me as part of a large group of songs from the series (I've never watched it, but I love anime music).
Am I the only person who notices a giant sneeze in the background at around 1:55?
(Also, anyone know where I can get a translation of the lyrics?)
Is the reason we don't have a section/info for the Destiny Novels/Audio C Ds is for lack of knowing what the hell happened in it?