Misused: Schmuck Bait

I almost wonder if it would make more sense to drop the "bait" in Schmuck Bait and just call it a Schmuck Trap. I feel like the common throughline of Schmuck Bait is that the thing is really obviously bad, but the schmuck does it anyway either out of curiosity or stupidity. It doesn't necessarily need to be "bait", it just needs to be intriguing or alluring enough to get someone to do the thing. Anyone who does the thing that very obviously should not be done is the schmuck by definition.

If it's "non-necessarily-Trap Obvious Trap" and "non-lethal Too Dumb to Live", it's probably some intermediate trope that's hard to name cleanly. It may not necessarily be a bait or dangerous. It's probably some inanimate version of Horrible Judge of Character, when ignoring obvious clue results in immediate misfortune.

Yeah, I'm not sure exactly what name would reflect the concept accurately. Especially since the concept itself is kinda nebulous.

I think that the "bait" in the original title wasn't necessarily meant to indicate a trap; just to convey the idea of someone being tempted into making an obviously poor decision. I.e. "you'd have to be a schmuck to think going for that is a good idea." I'm not sure how to make that clearer though.

I know we don't use dialogue lines as trope names anymore but would some variation of "Must Resist Stupidity Impulse" work?

Would removing the dialogue-like wording by trimming it to Stupidity Impulse work, or is that not descriptive enough?

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 9th 2024 at 3:59:58 AM

I wonder if "impulse" is too broad and may include other cases of stupidity, or it's fine as a reaction to seeing something and making the wrong conclusion.

How about Dumb Choice Bait?

to Dumb Choice Bait.

Rename crowner?

Was thinking of Wifty Like a Charm and Content Themselves Without Trick Warnings.

• If Dumb Press This
• Blatant Danger Clue
• Obvious Threat
• Warnings Dont Work On Fools
• Invitation To Fall For It

These should cover even non-traps. This can include cases where Who Would Be Stupid Enough? is what the audience would ask.

Not sure if answered, do we want this reclassified as Characterization Tropes or describing situations even if nobody falls for them? Checking the current indexes and related tropes would be wise to avoid changing the scope by much.

Potential cases where Shmuck Bait may have been used:

• Someone feeling the urge to make fun of someome despite the Foreshadowing of it being their Berserk Button.
• Someone going to investigate a cliff with visibly cracked surface.
• Someone unlocking a certain door despite being asked not to.

I think Dumb Choice Bait is probably the clearest, if not the cleverest. I do like Stupidity Impulse too.

Invitation To Fall For It amuses me, but I could also see people taking it too literally.

I like Dumb Choice Bait.

I like Dumb Choice Bait too, although I wonder if we could make Stupidity Impulse Bait a redirect.

I don't think the rename would be a necessity. I mean, the trope in itself is about the schmuck causing a character to bite the bait (and not only in traps, for the record), I don't see how the name wouldn't be indicative enough of the intended use for the trope. "No indication that the trap is obvious" is definitely misuse though, and should be cleaned up, because traps that can't be predicted is People Sit on Chairs. "Baiting into action" could become its own trope though, and the name for it could be something along the lines of "Temptingly Bad Idea" (thanks to user Nine Tailed Cat for the idea).

Edited by PixilateSpades on Apr 15th 2024 at 6:41:40 AM

The problem is that Schmuck Bait has become a Pothole Magnet and there's no guarantee it won't just get overused that way again even if we remove every last pothole.

Well, I did my research and saw that it tends to be used when mentioning things that you would be advised to not look up on the internet, for one reason or another. I personally believe that usage falls into "baiting into action" as well, which could get a trope of its own in the future. About the "no indication that the trap is obvious"... To me that's just user incompetence, I'm not gonna lie. Sometimes users of this wiki link things that don't belong. It can happen to any page, and we can't just remove every page where that happens. We can only undo the potholes that surge.

Edited by PixilateSpades on Apr 11th 2024 at 10:33:51 AM

The name Temptingly Bad Idea wasn't my idea. It was proposed by Nine Tailed Cat, who is the one who actually wrote the opening post; I simply made the thread on their behalf (hence the banner giving them credit for the thread), since they gave permission to do that on the TRS Queue.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 11th 2024 at 9:56:54 AM

Thanks for the clarification. And yeah I think it's a very good name for a variation of Schmuck Bait.

I always felt that Schmuck Bait referred to being unable to resist doing something after being told not to.

The page quote seems to agree with you.

Which is why Reverse Psychology is labeled as a supertrope

right, the idea as i understood it is not about an "obvious trap" per se— it's something that is irresistibly tempting despite being clearly a bad idea. frequently the person is directly warned not to do it but ...... you just can't help it, it's so shiny!

like this:

im neutral on a rename, if people think it will help then id be okay with Temptingly Bad Idea or Dumb Choice Bait. As long as the new name indicates the concept of "tempting someone into doing something they know is stupid", which is not the same as a poorly hidden trap

Edited by Tremmor19 on Apr 18th 2024 at 8:02:38 AM

That does also overlap with Forbidden Fruit, but maybe that's another subtrope.

I can't actually argue for or against a rename because English is not my native language, so the current name just sounds like non-indicative gibberish to me. So I doubt it counts. What strikes me is that maybe this needs to be split between two concepts.

1. Obvious Trap: It needs not to be extremely alluring or lethal, just something that anyone with common sense would be able to spot from a mile away but a more naive/dumber character misses. Maybe name Horrible Judge Of Danger?
2. Baiting into action: The video game thing where you are given the option of choosing poorly. Maybe name Video Game Inefficiency Potential?