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Needs Help: Cool Old Guy

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To-do list:

  • It was decided to get rid of the gender split between Cool Old Guy and Cool Old Lady, as well as deprecate both tropes by doing the following:
  1. Split off a new trope, Spry Old Guy, which covers the concept described in this post, which refers to elderly characters who are physically capable despite their age
  2. Split off a new trope, Charismatic Old Folks, which covers the concept described in this post, which refers to charismatic/cool elderly characters
    • Create the new pages either via sandboxes or TLP.
    • Move examples that fit at least one of the new tropes accordingly, and remove ones that don't fit.

    Original post 
Note: This is also made for Cool Old Lady.

By Graf von Tirol

Category: Needs Help

After disposing of misuse of these tropes in the Music/ namespace, I have decided to do a wick check on the both of them. What I found wasn't exactly encouraging, since both of these have around a third of the wicks in my samples have some kind of misuse, mostly Zero Context Examples, but also including other real-life examples when these tropes have explicitly been listed under No Real Life Examples, Please!, among other problems. The samples mostly missed the Creator and Useful Notes namespaces, and when combining the Creator/ wicks there's 218 (distressingly not an insignificant number). The ZCEs alone would convince me that a rename would be in order to curb the misuse. And while we're at it, I believe a merge would be in order since the only thing separating the two tropes is gender; in both samples most of the valid examples suggest a collected mind or charismatic nature.

For both put together:

  • Physical Coolness: 14/154 (9.09%)
  • Charisma/Collected Coolness: 56/154 (36.36%)
  • Other: 4/154 (2.6%)
  • Misuse (ZCEs, Real Life Troping, other problems): 54/154 (35.06%)
  • Not sure/Unclassifiable: 26/154 (16.88%)

Wick check:

Aside from the fact that only gender separates the two (which may call for a merger into something like Cool Elder), I'm going to do a wick check on both Cool Old Guy and Cool Old Lady to check for misuse. The concept is that the character may be of advanced age, but still has the charisma, cool and/or physical prowess to impress others in-universe. Both tropes are deemed No Real Life Examples, Please! because they are narrative tropes, with Too Common thrown in for good measure.

    open/close all folders 

Cool Old Guy (8612 wicks, sample size 93)

    Physically Cool (10/93; 10.75%) 
  1. 313. Meteor Move: Augus from Asura's Wrath does one of the most insane one of these ever. He uses an extendable blade to fling Asura off the moon and ram into the earth at Relativistic speeds, Slams Asura into the ground, and the blade slices through him, and the entire planet, and it keeps going.
  2. 756. Awesome.The Wheel Of Time
    • Damer Flinn, a Retired Badass Cool Old Guy who joined the Black Tower to learn how to Heal shows his chops as Nynaeve's male counterpart in Healing when he treats Rand after the latter is wounded by Padan Fain's dagger. He almost casually tells his life story (as it helps him concentrate) while sealing the competing wounds away from the rest of Rand's body and has Sumika, a Yellow, practically demand him to teach her how he did that. He later goes on to have an Offscreen Moment of Awesome in independently discovering the saidin method of Healing stilling and is able to Heal Alivia after her hand is charred down to the bone during the Cleansing in book 9.
    • Noal, who in truth is Jain Farstrider, not only is he able to kick major ass despite his age but his previous exploits are no joke either. He managed to single-handedly capture a False Dragon, something the Aes Sedai only do in large groups. After that he allegedly decided to go on a walk to Shayol Gul that most people stay the hell away from if they know what's good for them. Then he apparently came back because he got bored and decided he wanted to go chill with Mat. Almost subverted as it's heavily implied that Noal had at the very least had to do some very unsavory things to survive, if not outright becoming a Darkfriend (albeit one of many repentant ones throughout the series). His final words in particular smack strongly of Redemption Equals Death.
    Noal: "If you ever meet a Malkieri, you tell him Jain Farstrider died clean!"
  3. 1073. Characters.Bakugan Battle Planet Partner Bakugan: An ancient Bakugan and Drago's elder. Once he gets over his faction hatred, he becomes another of Dan's Bakugan that's surprisingly effective in battle and level-headed.
  4. 1954. Characters.Foolish Mortals Round Three: He's 69, but still strong enough to knock Prince Kit, when he thought he had killed Leia, into a wall with a single punch, and pick up and carry his 13-year-old niece and his 53-year-old girlfriend.
  5. 3176. Characters.Popeye: Senile he may be, but super strength and fearlessness is something that runs in Popeye's family. He aided Popeye in taking down an entire legion of Goons in "Goonland"! In the 1980 Popeye, he manages to rescue Swee'Pea from an octopus and Bluto.
  6. 4718. Characters.X Com Enemy Unknown: Despite his old age, he's a hard worker and capable leader for your engineering team.
  7. 5191. EstablishingCharacterMoment.Anime And Manga: Record of Ragnarok: Sasaki Kojiro's first appearance practically sums up his character. He volunteers to go for his round instead of waiting for Brunhilde to pick him. His appearance is that of an elderly man, which seemingly contradicts the In-Universe rule where all human combatants take the form of their golden age (i.e., their youth). The next thing he does is to recover a falling milk jug and every single bit of milk in it with a swing of his sheathed sword. He then proceeds to enjoy a meal consisting of the milk he just recovered, plus the salmiak pies on the floor (which is said to taste awful), a peculiarity that none would expect from a Japanese old fella like him. Finally, he reveals he has been pursuing the way of the blade for 400 years since he ascended to the afterlife. All of the aforementioned moments during his first appearance cements him as a man of action, a man of initiative, a peculiar Cool Old Guy, and the Master Swordsman.
  8. 5429. Film.Blade Trilogy: Whistler sports a white beard and a gatling gun.
  9. 5963. HandicappedBadass.Anime And Manga: While he may not be missing an arm or a leg, or even his eyesight, Whitebeard definitely qualifies, as he manages to wipe the floor with several high-ranking Marines at once, shrugging off any wound on his person, after having been hooked on life support equipment for at least a few years. He single-handedly defeated Blackbeard in one-on-one combat. With half his face. And slowly dying. Blackbeard had to bring his crew to gang up and shoot and stab him until they ran out of bullets to finally kill him. It wasn't even an immediate death. And to top all that, he Died Standing Up.
  10. 6474. Literature.Zombies And Shit: Lee is a veteran soldier, and entirely unbothered by his predicament since he doesn't care about surviving anyway. All he wants to do is get drunk on some genuinely good booze for once and then die boringly so as to deny those bastards watching their entertainment.

    Charismatic/Collected Cool (30/93; 32.26%) 
  1. 54. Benevolent Boss: Section 9's Chief Aramaki in Ghost in the Shell is the archetypal Cool Old Guy who uses his political connections and clout to support his team rather than exploiting his team into supporting him. More than once he even puts his job on the line for their sake.
  2. 75. Carpe Diem: In The Last Starfighter, Cool Old Guy Otis offers this advice to Alex, when the latter's angsting about living his life stuck in a trailer park.
  3. 485. The Conscience: General Iroh to his nephew Zuko in Avatar: The Last Airbender, steering him away from revenge and toward personal enlightenment.
  4. 626. Anime.Domo TV: Mr. Usaji can be pretty energetic and impressive for the grandpa figure of the group, like the time he not only stops scolding Domo for rocking out to loud music but even joins him and has a good time.
  5. 986. Characters.Argonavis: He's on the older side, but that doesn't stop the Argonavis members from going to him for advice. He’s also a great drummer, and used to play in a band in the past.
  6. 991. Characters.Arknights Guards A To M: Despite his age, Hellagur is pleasant to hang out with. If posted in a dorm, his Absolution RIIC skill passively improves the morale recovery of everyone in it.
  7. 1059. Characters.Baby Driver: He has filled the parental substitute role for Baby and he is worried about Baby's criminal activities. When the deal with Doc is over (at least temporarily), Joe helps Baby to find a proper job as a pizza delivery boy. Also, he approves Baby's infatuation with Debora.
  8. 1078. Characters.Baldurs Gate II Other Party Members: Just radiates warmth and dependability. Look at that portrait.
    • For a veteran paladin, he's also surprisingly fine with having a twenty-one-year-old order him around. This is especially the case if Charname is a paladin of the Order themselves, as Keldorn technically outranks them.
  9. 1312. Characters.Casshern Sins: One of the few decent beings Casshern encounters over the course of the story. Whenever he does act surly, it's only because he's concerned for Ringo's safety than anything else.
  10. 1363. Characters.Chupa: He's an aging man who is also a retired professional luchador, and is also trying to protect a young chupacabra.
  11. 1554. Characters.Diaries Of A Madman: Very easy going and willing to help Nav, despite his social standing in Canterlot.
  12. 2103. Characters.Futurama Other Characters: He's a military veteran and skilled lawyer, who defends Zoidberg at his trial for eating Earth's flag. He also happens to be a Satan-worshipping, bisexual polygamist, which either downplays this somewhat, or turns it up to eleven depending on one's personal views.
  13. 2270. Characters.Home Alone
    • He turns out to be this, being a polite, charming and good-natured grandfather who Kevin quickly strikes up a friendship with.
    • An old toy store owner who runs a charity fundraiser and gifts Kevin and his family with toys on Christmas Eve for preventing said fundraiser from being stolen by the Wet Bandits.
  14. 2663. Characters.MCU Adrian Toomes: He may be evil but he's still a benevolent family man with a code of honor. Also, he's played by Michael Keaton, making him this by default. In his scene with Peter, before learning who he is, he comes across as an affable Dad who is pleased at Peter's general responsibility (i.e. refusing to drink because he's underage).
  15. 2915. Characters.Naruto The Legendary Sannin: Definitely is a friendly, wise sage...when he's not acting pervy.
  16. 3014. Characters.Open Heart Choices: He is a middle aged security guard and has a good relationship with Casey and the other doctors of Edenbrook.
  17. 3048. Characters.Paradise Killer: He doesn't act it, but he is much older than Lady and was around in the first days of the Syndicate. He is also a genuinely Nice Guy who lives on a yacht and tries to help her catch the Paradise Killer.
  18. 3465. Characters.Silent Hill 4: Reasonable, friendly and an overall nice man to talk to. Cutscenes show him being very civil and polite with Eileen, and he'll often come by the door to Room 302 to check on it.
  19. 3480. Characters.Skyforge Immortals And Gods: Very polite and soft spoken, he's never seen rising his voice and always refers to player character with kindest words.
  20. 3714. Characters.Super RWBY Sisters Nintendo Characters: He's pretty much a chill dude in the Master Dojo. He even went out of his way to give Ruby a A Dynamax Band and Wishing Star
  21. 3943. Characters.The Cosby Show: Its clear that Cliff got his sense of humor from his Father.
  22. 4077. Characters.The Legend Of Genji: Adaptational Jerkass: In the original 2017 fan comic, Mr. Lao was a Cool Old Guy, a Secret-Keeper of Genji's Fight Clubbing hobby, and even gave Genji a free bag of apples to take home as thanks for his hard work. Here, Old Man Lao is a Grumpy Old Man and a Mean Boss with none of Mr. Lao's kinder traits, which instead go to Lao's brother.
  23. 4134. Characters.The Ministry Of Time Other Characters: Mr. Naylor is a friendly Andalusian man who helps the Patrol and William to prepare Operation Mincemeat.
  24. 4407. Characters.Trails Series Crossbell Government And Influential Groups: He is nothing but supportive to the members of the SSS and Crossbell, who support him back.
  25. 4483. Characters.Two Broke Girls: An elderly former jazz musician with a love of marijuana and gambling.
  26. 5209. Fanfic.A Minor Miscalculation: Isshin Matoi. Papa Wolf and calculating leader of La Résistance, but also willing to house a complete stranger because Ryuko asked nicely and completely open to the (ambiguously false) notion that she is in a relationship with that stranger. However, he starts to lose his nicer traits as the war grinds on.
  27. 5214. Fanfic.Abyssal Infinitum: They Would Cut You Up: Occasionally brought up in narration, and mentioned as an anxiety that Sarah has. The fact that Pietro was willing to break the law to get her a legal citizenship strongly seems to imply this isn't an entirely unfounded fear.
  28. 5244. Fanfic.Dream With Me: Red Leg Zeff gets along quite well with the younger generation, thanks to Tani ensuring he gets a better impression of the Straw Hats.
  29. 5426. Film.Birdemic: Dr. Jones, who doesn't let the Birdemic distract him from his job and clearly doesn't fear that the birds might attack him. He still keeps a gun on him, just in case.
  30. 7321. Series.Aquarius: As Hodiak says, after revealing his jazz drummer father had plenty of pot, "You kids think you invented everything."

    A combination thereof with multiple examples (2/93; 2.15%) 
  1. 1309. Characters.Case Closed Other Recurring Characters
    • [Jirokichi's] first appearance has him stopping a thief who snabbed Sonoko's purse...while on a motorcycle. He also thinks of some strange, but brilliant and intricate methods to catch Kaitou Kid; they always fail, but the feat is still impressive. Outside of his fervour in capturing Kaito Kid, he is a very amiable person and gets along well with his niece and her friends.
    • The few images seen of Samizu portrays him as an old man, and given the neat contraptions he made during his lifetime, he was damn good at his work.
  2. 6612. Manga.Zatch Bell: Several examples throughout the series.
    • Gustav is Vincent Bari's partner. A serious man who acts as a strict father to Bari, helping him with his battles but trying to make him grow. He thanks Zatch and Kiyo after their battle for helping Bari to discover what he was missing, which is the primary reason that they don't destroy Zatch's spellbook.
    • Doctor Riddles is a Trickster Mentor skilled in magic tricks and combat tactics who has altruistic motives throughout the battle, even after losing Kido.
    • Byonko's partner Alvin had a bad habit of forgetting to wear his dentures, rendering him unable to say the spells. Later, Alvin reveals he did it on purpose to be a hindrance to Zofis; the moment that Byonko turns back to the right side, he pops in his teeth and the two of them begin curb-stomping Zofis's most powerful servant.
    • Jed, Ted's partner, is a nomadic and carefree Badass Biker who was able to defeat Ted every time the pair of them sparred.

    Other (2/93; 2.15%) 
  1. 5276. Fanfic.Keeper Of Terror: Mephisto assumes the form of a kindly old man and utilizes this trope to get his host - Jaune - to trust him. Ruse
  2. 7335. Series.Boris: Medical Dimension has a badly written example, to keep old people "young in spirit". The show has a character oddly named Grandpa Joe (for some unknown reason), an old man who is also a Badass Biker, wears a leather jacket, talks in an obnoxious Totally Radical speech, and has a hot girlfriend 40 years younger than him. His actor even complained to the director because he didn't want to play such a ridiculous character. Parody

    Misuse (34/93; 36.56%) 
  1. 152. Eerie Anatomy Model: Tesshou from Wild Life threatens the proud principal of an orphanage in Chapter 2 by killing him and turning his corpse into an anatomy model. Context-reliant, because the work page certainly doesn't explain
  2. 472. Terrible Interviewees Montage: The second season of The Wire features an investigation into the murder of a dozen women being smuggled into the country on an international container ship. When detectives "Bunk" Moreland and Lester Freamon attempt to interview/interrogate the crew, every single member of the crew claims to not speak English and just goes on and on in their various native languages. After who knows how many hours of this, Detective Freamon, who gets called things like "smooth old Lester" by awestruck young detectives, finally loses his cool and begins screaming "English, motherfucker!" at a random member of the crew. Scene. Other misuse (Chained sinkhole)
  3. 527. Trailer Spoof: It then cut to... Yoda, who cut a pose and did one of his little Cool Old Guy growls. Then he starts jumping and fighting Count Dooku... Not an example
  4. 609. Animation.Qins Moon: Old Man Ban (also Master Xu, and the Daoist Xiao Yao Zi) Zero context example
  5. 634. Anime.Freedom Project: Alan. Zero context example
  6. 1166. Characters.Black Clover Wizard Kings: He is this to the Clover Kingdom's citizenry. Zero context example
  7. 1267. Characters.Buffyverse Scooby Gang: Zero context example
  8. 1325. Characters.Catwoman: Either in his fifties or sixties, he's significantly older than Selena. Doesn't explain, may as well be ZCE
  9. 1476. Characters.Dark Forces Saga: Zero Context Example spotted in one of the two
  10. 1950. Characters.Flame Of Recca
    • An elderly man in his true form. Doesn't elaborate beyond that
  11. 2244. Characters.Hey Ash Whatcha Playin: Did everything in Saints Row the Third. Everything. In a character sheet involving RL people
  12. 2261. Characters.Hitogatana: The oldest squad member, they tend to call him 'old man'. Doesn't elaborate
  13. 2808. Characters.Mixels: All three are old Mixels that still have it. Zero Context Example
  14. 2858. Characters.Mortal Kombat II: Given the 25-year Time Skip in X, he's at least in his fifties then, so he qualifies. One of these "Qualifies" examples, ergo ZCE
  15. 2960. Characters.Noah: He's played by Anthony Hopkins, which ought to be enough. In addition, he's very much like Yoda, being both wise and very amusing. Not much context beyond the fluff and the character comparison
  16. 3161. Characters.Pokemon The Original Series Gym Leaders: Once he mellows out a little. Zero Context Example
  17. 3522. Characters.Songs Of War Ardoni Clans: Zero Context Example
  18. 3760. Characters.Survivor Micronesia: Real Life People
  19. 3944. Characters.The Cosmere: Ancient and awesome. Zero Context Example
  20. 4607. Characters.Warcraft The Alliance Exodar Character comparisons not offering much context
    • To the point that he's essentially a blue-skinned Expy of Gandalf.
    • Later becomes a mentor to Anduin in the ways of the light, becoming the Obi-Wan Kenobi to Anduin's Luke Skywalker.
  21. 5019. Creator.Lynn Okamoto: Real Life Person
  22. 5454. Film.Chairman Of The Board: Armand. "You surf?!" Doesn't put the quote in context, so ZCE
  23. 6121. Literature.Beyond The Dark Portal: Khadgar, although unfortunately, he's not old enough to be one. Not an example then
  24. 6172. Literature.Dragon Keeper Chronicles: Fenworth and Librettowit. Zero Context Example
  25. 6527. Manga.Gantz: "Old Man". Zero Context Example
  26. 6530. Manga.Gokusen: Kuroda Ryuuichiro. Zero Context Example
  27. 6707. Pantheon.Adaptational Changes: Met Stan Lee and George Lucas after hearing the news that their companies have become divisions of his own. Disney got along fine with Stan because of their images as Cool Old Guys, but has a disdain for George Lucas for altering his works significantly after release, something Walt disapproves from his own companies. Disney still respects both men's work and acknowledges that, like Walt himself, both their companies took huge risks that pay off fantastically. Even in a JFF page, this still describes a real life person
  28. 6778. Pantheon.Media And Connectivity: still narrating documentaries even in his nineties Even in a JFF page, this still describes a real life person
  29. 7521. Series.The Ed Sullivan Show: Ed Sullivan himself. Real Life Person
  30. 7669. TheRival.Video Games: Honda Tadakatsu and Shimazu Yoshihiro have a long-running one. Zero context example, with the context of the link fully reliant on knowing the character to boot
  31. 7747. UsefulNotes.Hassan Rouhani: Real Life Person
  32. 7753. UsefulNotes.National Football League Quarterbacks: "The Grand Old Man" Real Life Person
  33. 7991. VideoGame.Urban Chaos: With the help of a vigilante named Roper, D'arci begins to believe that the Wildcats plan to take over Union City. Doesn't explain, nor is there an example to contextualize the trope
  34. 8393. Wrestling.Ron Simmons: In his later years with WWE. ZCE and may as well be RL troping

    Unclassifiable/Not Sure (15/93; 16.13%) 
  1. 168. Evil Nephew: Subverted with Natsu's true nephew, August, the son of Zeref and Mavis; however, as while he's enemies with him, it's not out of hatred but simply because Spriggan gave him orders to fight him. In fact, Zeref doesn't even know August is his son.
  2. 213. Gentleman and a Scholar: Unlike the slightly-infantilized geniuses one may see in other works, a Gentleman And A Scholar is always mature and maintains his composure.
  3. 792. Bleach.Tropes A To B: This is reflected in the way his sword's spirit looks. Zangetsu is a Cool Old Guy. Tensa Zangetsu is a Bishōnen.
  4. 2827. Characters.Mobile Suit Gundam The Origin: One of the few Federation higher-ups who isn't corrupted, cowardly, etc.
  5. 6107. Literature.An Ember In The Ashes: The Patriarch: Quin Veturius, the 77-year-old leader of Gens Veturia, the Empire's oldest house. Also a Cool Old Guy to Elias. Possibly a somewhat Stay in the Kitchen attitude, as he never took pride in his daughter's (the Commandant's) accomplishments like he does Elias', and he even named Elias his heir instead of her, though Elias also observes that even Quin disapproves of his daughter's general cruelty,
  6. 6558. Manga.Laid Back Camp: Chiaki thinks to herself how the Cool Old Guy camper she meets (who later turns out to be Rin's grandfather) "looks straight out of a coffee commercial"; she refers to Tommy Lee Jones's series of Japandering coffee commercials from the 1990s.
  7. 6821. Pantheon.Surrogate Relationships: Multiple
  8. 6852. PlayingWith.Cousin Oliver: Justified: Alternatively, a Cool Old Guy (or other adult character) is added to the roster, in a series (such as a Kid Com or a Teen Drama) where most of the characters are children or teenagers.
  9. 7218. Sandbox.Donnietu: Pantheon sandbox
  10. 7949. VideoGame.Star Fox Command: Babies Ever After: Certain endings show the offspring of the team. Slippy and Amanda end up having at least six children (all unnamed) in Ending 7, while in Ending 2, Slippy's son ends up joining a possible future team composed of Fox and Krystal's son Marcus (the leader of said team), Peppy's granddaughter (presumably Lucy's daughter, father unknown), and elderly Falco.
  11. 8440. YMMV.Departures: His job isn't just creepy, it's unclean and contaminating, something the Burakumin - the Japanese equivalent of India's "untouchables" - do, and for a "normal" person like Daigo to do this is very Squicky for everyone (except the Cool Old Guy because he works at the crematorium).
  12. 8441. YMMV.Devil May Cry 5: Here, Cool Old Guy Dante has Cavaliere, a motorcycle Devil Arm that can be split into a pair of giant chainsaws.
  13. 8510. YMMV.Outriders: Ensemble Dark Horse: Among the cast, Jakub has proven to be the fan-favorite within the community. With some fans even saying he is the Cayde-6 of the game.
  14. 8538. YMMV.Tayo The Little Bus: Narm: Some of the characters have names that can sound hilarious in English to the dirty minded. Try taking Booba, Titipo, and Bong Bong seriously as characters after you say their names aloud.
  15. 8548. YMMV.The Equalizer: Escapist Character: Who secretly doesn't want to be a seemingly unstoppable, resourceful badass, fighting off rooms full of gun toting gangsters with their bare hands, barely breaking a sweat sometimes, and getting justice for their victims, without needing any of those silly superhero powers? Not only that but the guy isn't exactly young either.

Cool Old Lady (3747 wicks, sample size 61)

    Physically cool (4/61; 5.97%) 
  1. 249. Ultimate Blacksmith: In her time, Sister Lashan would've counted herself as merely a very good mage-smith, making very good swords with modest, lasting, useful enchantments on them. Then soldiers overran her home enclave and killed anyone they didn't abduct, and she made a Heroic Sacrifice to seal herself into one of her swords and help her apprentice. Thousands of years later, by the time any of the Heralds of Valdemar books actually take place, Need is still going strong and all memory of how to make something like her is gone.
  2. 1401. Characters.Space Jam A New Legacy: Granny as a basketball player. And scoring a point with a kick to the ball. Yes, you heard that right.
  3. 2822. Manga.The Mermaid Princesss Guilty Meal: Ryo's grandma is a tough-as-nails, sake-swilling hunter who takes on bears at her ripe old age.
  4. 3449. VideoGame.Once Ever After: Unlike the Girl, the Wolf, and the Woodsman, the function of a secondary character like the Grandmother can vary wildly. Frieda is one of the few prominent characters with that role, having survived being devoured by her Wolf due to the nature of the Tale she's from, and is the one that bequeaths the "Grandmother" class to the party once they complete her "Fairy Grandmother" quest.

    Charismatic/Collected Cool (26/61; 42.62%) 
  1. 39. Characterization by Relation: The Hecate Sisters: A trio of female archetypes: an alluring young maiden, a matronly mother, and a wise crone.
  2. 504. Characters.Black Butler Great Britain: Beware the Nice Ones: In the manga, Queen Victoria is a friendly, Cool Old Lady who has a soft spot towards children as "the future". She also tends to knows more about anything than anyone, casually has shady men either assassinated or framed, and orders Ciel to abduct the scientist in charge of a German secret weapons program.
  3. 512. Characters.Bloodborne Secondary Characters: Though it's difficult to tell from appearances since she's covered from head to toe in her plague doctor outfit, she's apparently significantly older than you and asks why they never listen to their elders should they go after her assassination targets after she tells them not to (her voice actors in both the English and Japanese audio were in their late 40s/early 50s during recording, so it's fair to say she's in that age range).
  4. 620. Characters.Criminal Case Mysteries Of The Past: Friendly, knows everyone, and loves to celebrate.
  5. 687. Characters.Disney Ducks Comic Universe Friends: She used to run the Gold Cup Café in Goldopolis and never abandoned the city even when its glory faded and it became a borderline Ghost Town with only her, her granddaughter, and oldtimers Cyanide Charlie and Hardrock Joe left to call the area inhabited.
  6. 689. Characters.Dispatches From Elsewhere: As is standard for anyone played by Sally Field, Janice is an intelligent, no-nonsense woman and a former feminist activist who is very open-minded and gets along great with younger people.
  7. 746. Characters.Elite Dangerous: Very helpful to those looking to go out into the black.
  8. 862. Characters.Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer: She displays this trope as it was intended rather than ironically. Besides being sweet and loving, Grandma's a savvy businesswoman, has a snarky sense of humor, and doesn't take shit from anyone. She's the type of woman you wish you'd have for a grandmother.
  9. 1136. Characters.Mrs America Other Characters:The respectable First Lady, as in Real Life, was a outspoken feminist who supported the ERA and spoke out about topics that were previously taboo for First Ladies (she came about about her breast cancer surgery, she told 60 Minutes that she and President Ford share the same bed, she supports abortion, and she wouldn't be surprised if her teenage daughter told her she was having sex because she is just like everyone one else).
  10. 1587. Characters.The Eternals Eternals: Arranged a peace summit between her warring children, on a set of molecules. And she is a million years old - although, technically, she’s no older than her children or any of Earth’s other Eternals.
  11. 1663. Characters.The Melissa Allen Trilogy: Heather’s initial description is of a matronly grey-haired woman. As soon as they have cleared the hospital however, she lets her hair down, and introduces herself to Melissa.
    “There now. Plenty for them to gossip about for a while.” …she laughed at the look on my face. “My name is Heather Shaker.”
  12. 1878. Characters.White Collar: She ran an illegal casino and has a talent for acting.
  13. 1905. Characters.Yakuza Like A Dragon: Is kind enough to provide two homeless guys with some work (even if it didn't quite pay well) and even points them to Hello Work so that they can find better-paying jobs. Never mind hooking them up with a place to live in.
  14. 1941. ComicBook.Hexed: Lucifer's employer, Valeska Brisendine gets introduced here, she's a bit knowledgeable herself and is fully prepared to cremate an inconvenient body if need be.
  15. 2214. Film.Deadstream: The grandmother who created the hamsa and defeated Mildred in the past is a dignified old lady who gives the best advice in the film. Shame she's trying to give it to Shawn.
  16. 2560. Literature.Fiery Secrets: Grace's mother/Jacob's grandma, who lives with them. She plays table hockey, rides bikes with her grandson, loves pizza, and isn't afraid to say what she thinks.
  17. 2576. Literature.Harvest Home: The Widow Fortune is pretty badass: in spite of her age and status, she's spry, good-humored, and genuinely affectionate to the villagers. She also can harness and drive her own horses, does all the town doctoring, and is the hub of much of village life.
  18. 2659. Literature.Searching For The Truth: The wise old healer Merneith can treat practically any known illness, and her timeless wisdom offers a lifeline of peace and stability as things get more and more iffy.
  19. 3066. Recap.The New Scooby Doo Movies S 1 E 4 The Frickert Fracas: Grandma Frickert is a cheerful, witty, and fearless old woman.
  20. 3105. Sandbox.Herald Alberich: The Madrigal is an elderly lady and a lot more Affably Evil than Viv expected.
  21. 3185. Series.Godless: Iyovi. While she initially appears to be a superstitious old nag, she slowly reveals her coolness as she warms up to Roy. When Roy expresses how impressed he was that she shot out the eye of her target on their hunting trip, she wryly responds that she was aiming for the other eye.
  22. 3244. Series.People Just Do Nothing: Steves Nan. A sweet old bird, and really the only person who treats him decently. Which is why it hits him hard when she passes.
  23. 3305. Series.The Ranch 2016: Maggie is liked by everyone in town. Running the local bar might have something to do with that.
  24. 3335. SiblingYinYang.Anime And Manga: The Muten Roshi and the Uranai Baba. The Muten Roshi is a Dirty Old Man who uses Ki Manipulation, the Uranai Baba is a Cool Old Lady who uses Magic and Powers. They're both very wise and tricky though. The Muten Roshi, however, isn't nearly as greedy as his older sister is, though.
  25. 3415. VideoGame.Arida Backlands Awakening: Firmina, who knows all the other villagers are leaving, but refuses to go with them because she doesn't want to leave "her land" and she has faith the drought will break soon. In the meantime, she blesses Cícera's efforts and gives her a machete to chop down obstacles.
  26. 3647. WesternAnimation.The Dingles: Doris formulates a plan to make her way into the house along with her cats - by ripping her apron into three pieces and tying them around each of the cats.
    Narrator: But even though Doris was very scared, she had a plan...

    Misuse (20/61; 32.79%) 
  1. 340. Awesome.Denji Sentai Megaranger: Chisato's grandmother gets one when Chisato is trying to run off without any apparent reason. After telling a police officer to get her to safety during a cataclysm caused by Termite Soldier Nezire, Grandma refuses to let Chisato go on her own, and K.O.'s the officer, revealing that she's a black belt in aikido. She then hijacks his cruiser and drives off to find Chisato... whom she discovers after having henshined to become Mega Yellow. She follows her to the battle with Termite Soldier Nezire, who ends up ready to kill Mega Yellow... and then here comes Granny, ramming the Nezire Beast with the cruiser! Granted, Termite Soldier Nezire doesn't let the old lady get away with it and shoots out the brakes. So Mega Yellow rushes in and brakes the car to a stop with her feet. Either way, despite the initial goofiness of Chisato's granny, few can say they have a grandma who'll ram a termite monster with a hijacked police cruiser. Chained sinkhole
  2. 387. Characters.A Certain Magical Index Academy City Leadership: Zero Context Example
  3. 927. Characters.Homestuck Sprites: Zero Context Example
  4. 938. Characters.House Of Cards US Other: Her reaction to Tom's breakdown embodies this trope. One of those "embodies this" examples, so ZCE
  5. 1140. Characters.Murder She Wrote: A famous example of the crime fighter old lady variety. Doesn't elaborate
  6. 1344. Characters.Save The Earth: 'Zero Context Example
  7. 1456. Characters.Sudden Contact: Gives off strong vibes of this when Liara meets her on Eden Prime. Doesn't elaborate
  8. 1494. Characters.Survivor Palau: Real Life People
  9. 1501. Characters.Survivor Thailand: ZCE, and describes an IRL person
  10. 1506. Characters.Survivor Xover Version: ZCE, and describes an IRL person
  11. 1592. Characters.The Fionavar Tapestry: Zero Context Example
  12. 1723. Characters.The Vampire Diaries Book Characters: Zero Context Example
  13. 1746. Characters.The Wicked Years: Zero Context Example
  14. 1819. Characters.Under The Dome: Zero Context Example
  15. 2373. Funny.Cobra Kai: Pretty much everything Rosa says. Zero Context Example
  16. 2392. Funny.Nancy Drew: Moira's sarcastic tirade about old people. Zero Context Example
  17. 2700. Literature.The Girl With The Silver Eyes: Mrs. M., a neighbor in Katie's apartment complex, who she befriends. Doesn't elaborate, may as well be ZCE
  18. 2753. Literature.The Wake Trilogy: Mrs. Stubin, even post-mortem. Zero Context Example
  19. 3119. Sandbox.Owlivia: Zero Context Example
  20. 3259. Series.Roundhouse: Grandma or an aunt sometimes. Zero Context Example

    Unclassifiable/Not Sure (11/61; 18.03%) 
  1. 75. Fallen Hero: A dark version in Avatar: The Last Airbender is Hama, a seemingly nice old woman from the South Water Tribe living in the Fire Nation. In her youth, she was one of the best waterbenders of the tribe and fought unceasingly to protect it from the Fire Nation invaders. After repeated skirmishes to capture the waterbenders, she was the only one of them left in the tribe and ultimately got captured and thrown into prison with the rest, kept away from any water source and left to rot for the rest of her life. While imprisoned she discovered a simple but revolutionary truth: living things are made of water and during full moons she can use the empowered bending to control them, and improved her bending in secret until she was ready to escape and terrorize the people of the nation that made her life hell.
  2. 145. Mr. Vice Guy: Coulter Dixon in Fablehaven retains a heavy amount of "misguided-chivalry-style" sexism, and won't put a woman in danger or ask for one's help on a dangerous mission. This irritates heroine Kendra to no end. Notably, he does get better, especially with some exposure to Kendra and Cool Old Lady Ruth.
  3. 240. The Utterly and Completely Definitive Guide to Cool: Index
  4. 2026. DarthWiki.Elemental Doom: By human standards anyway. She's still called "A young one" when compared to other elves though.
  5. 2051. DeadpanSnarker.Video Games: Takkar and Jayma from Far Cry Primal trade quips with one another about their scars- or absence thereof.
  6. 2173. FieryRedhead.Literature: Scarlet from The Lunar Chronicles is an ever-angry gunslinger who gets quite annoyed whenever anyone makes the genius connection to her name and her hair. She was raised in France by her badass grandma, who taught her to shoot, after all.
  7. 2786. MagnificentBastard.Saints Row: Myra Starr is a professional and cordial Marshall Defenese Industries director, standing in contrast to her arrogant boss, Atticus Marshall. When the Boss saves Starr’s life and is fired for not prioritizing an artifact, Marshall tells Starr to her face that she’s expendable, at which point Starr plots to undermine him. When Marshall tries to buy out the Saints through a clause in the Boss’ contract, Myra explains to the Boss how killing Marshall won’t get them anywhere; instead they opt to oust Marshall by corporate sabotage, at which point Myra will take over as CEO. As per Myra’s plan, the Boss hijacks an AI controlled tank Marshall intended to promote, going on a public rampage that ruins Marshall’s reputation, and turns his shareholders against him. At the Board meeting, when the vote is tied, Myra presents the Boss as the deciding voter, which sees Marshall either killed or fired from his own company. Taking over the company, Myra keeps her promise to free the Saints from the clause, but warns them not to further interfere with the company.
  8. 2858. OurDragonsAreDifferent.Video Games: Dragon-types are a pretty big deal in the Pokémon universe, being rare and powerful. The most powerful Gym Leaders, Champions and other Challengers (Lance, Clair, Drake, Drayden, Iris, Drasna, Zinnia and Raihan) often specialize in them, and there's an entire subset of "Dragon Tamer" type trainers. (Who all seem to be emulating Lance.)
  9. 2898. PlayingWith.Teen Pregnancy: Inverted: Alice becomes pregnant even though she's been menopaused a few years ago.
  10. 3501. WebAnimation.Let Me Explain Studios: Jerk with a Heart of Jerk: Rebecca's High School Drama Teacher Medusa was ultimately this. She had a tight grip on the theatre department and was prone to mood swings, either being decent & friendly or irritable & verbally abusive. And she frequently had favorite students while treating everyone else (Becca included) poorly. But she always gave her A's for being a good student, and even gave her a hug after a great performance, which made Rebecca believe that one day she'll get her approval if she sticks it out. However, during senior year when Rebecca was auditioning for the lead role in a play that she was the most qualified for in the entire class note , Medusa still did not cast her for ANY role for the play out of sheer contempt for her, even telling other students such. Unsurprisingly, this was the final straw for Rebecca, who quit her class then & there.
  11. 3724. YMMV.Survivor Mystery Isles: Yash is either a really great older person archetype on Survivor who is still willing to play the game hard, or a self-righteous hypocrite who gets mad when she thinks other people are scheming against her, yet does so herself.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 20th 2024 at 4:56:38 AM

Coachpill Can shapeshift (probably) from Washington State, grew up on Long Island Since: Aug, 2022 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Can shapeshift (probably)
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#27: Feb 6th 2024 at 8:22:03 AM

We need a clear understanding what the trope is about. Old Nice Guy as an inversion of Screw Politeness, I'm a Senior!? Badass examples could fit Old Master.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#28: Feb 6th 2024 at 12:57:43 PM

Yeah, early in the thread's life, there was uncertainty regarding the definition of Cool Old Guy and Cool Old Lady is, aside from the fact that they didn't need to be split by gender, and I'm not sure if that was sorted out.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 6th 2024 at 2:57:58 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
GrafVonTirol It wasn't a rock from a state of boredom (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Standing outside, playing "In Your Eyes" on the boombox
It wasn't a rock
#29: Feb 8th 2024 at 2:12:31 PM

Not sure if I have a name to offer aside from what's already posted here.

1001 Albums You Must Hear Before You Die (all editions) progress: 426/1089 (39.12%)
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#30: Feb 16th 2024 at 12:17:04 AM

As Amonimus and I said, we need to know how we want to define this before deciding what to call it.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 16th 2024 at 2:18:45 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
AbsoluteRainbow Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds from Hanoi, Vietnam Since: Jul, 2023
Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds
#31: Feb 16th 2024 at 1:13:37 AM

[up] Here's the folders containing the current descriptions:

    Cool Old Guy 
He usually won't have any special powers but that's only to marginally keep him from intruding on the others' limelight. He usually either has a dated and dramatic but lovable personality or is a complete no-nonsense hardass, depending on how the other characters act.

In Japan, this trope is called the Oyaji, written 親父 or オヤジ, which means "daddy". Can often stray into Even the Guys Want Him or Stupid Sexy Flanders territory. Wise Beyond Their Years is a younger version (usually no younger than late 20s at minimum) that has many of the same characteristics.

See also: Old Master, Older Sidekick, Eccentric Mentor, Mentor Archetype, Dirty Old Man, Silver Fox, Token Adult. See Cool Old Lady for the Distaff Counterpart. Contrast Aging Would-Be Hipster, Grumpy Old Man, and Evil Old Folks (unless when Evil Is Cool).


Example Subpages:

    Cool Old Lady 
Much like its Spear Counterpart the Cool Old Guy, the Cool Old Lady is a character that's much older than the main cast but for whatever reason, they become deeply attached to her. She can be a "hip" grandma that rollerblades, bungee jumps, can speak the teenage slang without it coming across as a Totally Radical Aging Would-Be Hipster, an Apron Matron who's gruff but caring, or a Cloudcuckoolander who is a joy to have around. Or she could be a kindly old lady who obviously led a very rich life (when she was younger, she bungee jumped, rode a motorcycle, knows the teenage slang of her era but doesn't dare try to incorporate it into her current speech) and regales the cast with saucy stories of her escapades. The fact that she's survived doing all that and lived to that age tells you that you should Never Mess with Granny.

If the grandma did all the cool stuff in the past, expect her to be low on the Sorting Algorithm of Mortality; on more dramatic shows, she will die by episode's/story arc's end. Often, she is helping all her new younger friends come to terms with their grief while being rather at peace with it herself because she "led a good life".

See also My Grandma Can Do Better Than You: For when Grandma is not so cool, and this fact is used to insult someone else by implying they are even worse. note 

Absolute Rainbow
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#32: Feb 16th 2024 at 1:24:48 AM

[up] Everyone already knows the existing descriptions, the question is what the merged version should be like.

Cool Old Guy talks a lot, but kinda has no indication of what is supposed to be aside just "cool", "strong personality".

Cool Old Lady seems to be equal on "grandma who acts younger her age", "grandmas are wise", and "A Good Way to Die red flag".

This doesn't give me good ideas other than reinforcing that it's "likeable elderly" and doesn't contain "badass" aspect. We can combine the previously mentioned points in that elderly are more mature and have a lot of life experiences they can share.

Edited by Amonimus on Feb 16th 2024 at 12:26:26 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
LaundryPizza03 Maintenance? from Texas Since: Aug, 2020
Maintenance?
#33: Feb 24th 2024 at 11:26:01 PM

[up]

Cool Old Guy: This description is similarly vague as the Badass Grandpa that got cut and disambiguated. I suggest we do the same here. Cool Old Lady: First is covered by Stronger with Age and possibly Older Than They Look; second is Older and Wiser; I need to look closer at the third.

If there is nothing here that is tropeworthy and not covered by an existing trope, I'd suggest redirecting both of the old titles to Badass Grandpa and diffusing both tropes to existing ones.

I'm back!
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#34: Feb 25th 2024 at 6:05:04 AM

If both of them are already covered by tropes on the Badass Grandpa disambiguation page, we could redirect both of them there. I'll wait for more feedback for that idea before doing that, though.

Edit: Though to be honest, the lack of certainty regarding the existing definitions has made me wonder if doing that (or alternatively, either disambiguating Cool Old Guy separately from Badass Grandpa and redirecting Cool Old Lady to the former, or disambiguating both separately) would be the best route anyway.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 25th 2024 at 8:10:07 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#36: Feb 28th 2024 at 1:05:21 AM

As I said almost two weeks ago:

As Amonimus and I said, we need to know how we want to define this before deciding what to call it.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#37: Feb 28th 2024 at 8:49:30 AM

"Cool" is not an easy concept to strongly define, but it's I think much more "I know it when I see it" than 'badass'. I can certainly see this concept existing as a subversion of the notion that old people are lame, and I don't think the Badass Grandpa tropes sufficiently cover that.

WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#38: Feb 28th 2024 at 9:07:50 AM

I def feels like it has a lot to do with some subverted expectations. I've always seen the tropes as being for elderly characters who can still hold their own and be strong, proactive forces in the story with no apparent issues related to their age.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#39: Feb 28th 2024 at 9:17:36 AM

As pointed out, Badass Grandpa is a disambig that has a lot of tropes about awesone elderly. Are there examples that can't to any of those?

Edited by Amonimus on Feb 28th 2024 at 8:17:48 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#40: Feb 28th 2024 at 9:19:36 AM

Plenty. Most are about honing their skills, or having been former combatants still capable of fighting, or what have you. Not just simply the characters who may not be aged masters or insanely skilled fighters, but are still capable and tough in a way their age doesn't imply.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#41: Feb 28th 2024 at 9:23:40 AM

As I've pointed out here, current tropes aren't even related to combat.

[up] Maybe we can draft "Old Master surprize reveal", this feels like a scenario that happens a lot and doesn't fit in the disambiguation.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#42: Feb 28th 2024 at 9:25:04 AM

That's what I said though. The examples on the disambig are very combat focused, which is why I think these two tropes hold merit. Because the characters don't need to be fighters to still be capable and involved in a way their age wouldn't suggest.

Edited by WarJay77 on Feb 28th 2024 at 12:25:29 PM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#43: Feb 28th 2024 at 9:32:17 AM

I'm not following.

Do you suggest to redefine the new "Cool Old" merged page as someone who has appearance of senile elderly, but shows (usually as surprize to an impolite naive youngster) impressive capabilities of some kind?

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#44: Feb 28th 2024 at 9:39:48 AM

No? I'm not saying it needs to be some reveal. Just a character who is more capable than you'd think for their age. Say, an 80 year old who manages to carry their own stuff, hunt for food, and build shelter while they and their family are stranded on an island. Or a 90 year old grandma who joins their grandchild's fight against the corrupt government, without showing any age-related issues in the process.

All I've been saying is that there's concepts uncovered by the other tropes, which was the question you originally asked. My idea isn't a specific or reveal-based one, simply one that involves clear capabilities and strength as if their age isn't a factor. Basically them being able to handle themselves the same way they could if they were a young adult.

Edited by WarJay77 on Feb 28th 2024 at 12:41:15 PM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#45: Feb 28th 2024 at 9:44:27 AM

I didn't mean the "surprise" mean as The Reveal.

Regardless, [up] can be what we can do here.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#46: Feb 28th 2024 at 9:48:00 AM

I agree that [up][up] sounds like a workable definition.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
jandn2014 Very Spooky from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
Very Spooky
#47: Feb 28th 2024 at 9:52:00 AM

I definitely agree that the idea of cool old folks is viable, but I think there's two sorts of "cool" we're dealing with. There's the concept of elderly folks who are still active and viable that's being discussed, of course, but there's also the charismatic "cool" sort, which has its own category in the wick check. While "charisma" is a broad concept (and the examples in the wick check are pretty incoherent when it comes to being "cool"), I think "old people who are still in-touch" can stand on its own. Elders have a reputation for being out-of-date or embarrassing, and even when liked, they tend to be likeable in a friendly, sentimental manner. So old people who still manage to be "cool" in spite of their age seems like a tropeworthy subversion.

Edited by jandn2014 on Feb 28th 2024 at 12:52:28 PM

back lol
WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#48: Feb 28th 2024 at 9:52:53 AM

Both seem like valid concepts; could probably split them off.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle

15th Mar '24 1:07:18 AM

Crown Description:

  • It was decided to do the following:
  1. Split off the concept described in this post, which refers to elderly characters who are physically capable despite their age
  2. Split off the concept described in this post, which refers to charismatic/cool elderly characters
  • What should the second of these two be called? The name for the first (Spry Old Guy) was already decided.

Total posts: 81
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