General concepts associated with constellations

I make this post to ask for help in correlating the constellations with concepts general enough to fit (planets too, but their divine naming conventions makes it easier for them), to that end I have decided to explain my updated magic system. Once the constellation and planet concept thing is sussed out, I will pivot the topic towards other areas of fleshing out and making said magic system more rational (among other things) and then request a mod to change the thread title appropriately.

I make this post as an elaboration on Asterisk Arts (referred to as Astras going forward). The system here is based around certain Hindu concepts, as well as both astrology and astronomy and the “astrogrpahy” of the solar system (henceforth referred to as Sol)

The idea here is to have a rational magic system based around a "Language of Magic", where each constellation as as well as planet (including dwarf planets as well as the more hypothetical “Urianian” planets) is associated with both a rune and a concept. The runes, when combined with each other will yield variable results based off the combination of the associated concepts as well as the Prana of the caster.

There are three categories of base Astras here. The most foundational are the elemental Astras, each one governs a suite of concepts related to 1 of 8 elements each and are named after the Vasus of Hindu lore, though they have a more common colloquial term each as well. They are the most pure form of Astras, and as such are the most dangerous, being capable of elementally aspected cataclysmic events that could threaten a given planet. Each person's Prana is aspected to these Astras and as such everyone can innately manipulate one of these eight domains. These Astras are known as:

• Agneyastra: Astra of the Inferno. Also called the Hellfirestar. Named after Agni. Governs flame and heat.
• Varunastra: Astra of the Torrent. Also called the Floodstar. Named after Varuna. Governs water.
• Vayvyastra: Astra of the Vortex. Also called the Stormstar. Named after Vayu. Governs the winds.
• Alkashastra: Astra of the Levin. Also known as the Thunderstar. Named after an alternate name of Dyaus. Governs the sky and lightning.
• Bhaumastra: Astra of the Tremors. Also called the Quakestar. Named after Bhumi. Governs the earth, as in the rocks, the plants.dirt, the metal.
• Dhruvastra: Astra of the Glaciers. Also called the Polestar. Named after Dhruva. Governs the stars and the cold.
• Suryastra: Astra of the Radiance. Also called the Solarstar. Named after Surya. Governs light.
• Chandrastra: Astra of the Eclipse. Also called the Lunarstar. Named after Chandramas. Governs darkness, the moon and illusion.

The second category are planetary Astras, so named because they encompass runes corresponding to 24 planets. The planets of Mercury, Venus, Earth (referred to as Terra to avoid confusion with the Quakestar), Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune. The Dwarf planets of Pluto, Sedna, Gonggong, Makemake, Quaroar, Eris, Orcus and Haumea. And the Uranian planets of Zeus, Poseidon, Hades, Kronos, Cupido, Admetos, and Apollon. These are rarer than the next category, but are more broad in their associated concepts

The third category is the most common one. Constellation Astras, each are based on the 88 modern constellations as defined by the IAU. As the most common in term of quantity of both types and specimens, their associated concepts are less powerful.

As a magical language Astras can be used on their own, or combined with other Astras, forming a “sentence” that serves to focus the effects to something more specific, filtering the elemental Astras though the planetary or constellation Astras to yield a specialized effect. Or having a non-aspected effect by forgoing the elemental Astras entirely. These spells can be cast using Prana, but using too much would cause severe health risk, meaning that people prefer to use asterisks as a catalyst to effectively maintain and focus their Prana.

While people have innate Prana, they also possess an Aura, a unique signature that sometimes causes them to create effects with Astras that cannot be replicated by other people, at least not at first. Over time, if a unique combination is used, these spells could become part of the pool of spells anyone can use. However a person's Aura also determines how many of each base Astra they can hold. People with a higher than average capacity for the basic Astras are known as Astradhari, and they are renowned for being exceptional wizards, sages and scientists, but even among them, those that can use all 120 of the base Astras are rare.

The asterisks themselves are physical items, jewel like rocks that are found though the cosmos and can be used as a power source. These stones are often imbued with planetary and constellation Astras. Proximity to them changes their Prana to be able to sue it regardless of distance to the physical stone, provided their Aura has the capacity for it.

Because of the properties of asterisks, insentient objects can also use Astras, but due to the lack of innate Prana, those Astras will instead drain the Prana of living beings. The Astras and asterisks had made feats of superscience possible, chief among them the ability to make engrams housing people's consciousnesses and memories to be used for resurrection protocols and the ability to bypass larges sections of outer space by traveling though a subspace dimension dubbed Astraspace. The study of Astras and asterisk and their implementation in technology is known as Astralogy, not to be confused with Astrology.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Aug 9th 2023 at 3:36:21 AM

Do you have any assigned (even tentatively) already...?

I do,

The examples here would be Chamaeleon. The chameleons ability to blend in by changing its colors means that it fits with the concept of stealth. Other examples include tying Microscopium to shrinking, Fornax with weapon enchantments and Pyxis with navigation.

Makes sense, and thank you for that! ^_^

(That said, it might be worth your listing out all of those that you have, so that we don't duplicate effort.)

For myself, one that comes to mind is that Orion might be associated with precision or aim.

Already have a list made, will post now and then replace the OP with a less rushed and more contextual post.

EDIT: OP is now replaced.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Aug 30th 2023 at 5:35:48 AM

Okay, that list helps a lot! Thank you! ^_^

So, here are a few more thoughts:

Aquarius:

I was going to go with "Flow"—but I see that you have that already.

So, instead, what about "Healing"?

Cancer:

Protection

Canis Major:

Loyalty

Capricornus:

Ambiguity

Cetus:

Magnitude

Corvus:

Wisdom, or perhaps Knowledge

Crater:

Life

Draco:

Hoards, or Greed

Hydra:

Resilience

Virgo:

Cleanliness, or Purity

I will say that I don't think that I agree with everything given in that article, by the way.

For example, as a reader I actually like it when there are multiple—sometimes different!—magic systems.

The article makes some fair points about having a given magic system feel like a cohesive whole. However, I don't agree that all magic systems in a given work should have a single source, or all feel like part of a whole with each other.

I'm also a little wary of taking the framework given there for defining a magic system as being the only valid one. I won't say that it won't work—just that I wouldn't be surprised if one could get solid magic systems using other approaches, too. And that there may be solid magic systems that would not likely be found by that method.

All that said, I won't gainsay your making your magic system or magic systems that way! I just want to add a note against the article's perspective being universally true, I suppose.

Let me sound her a note of caution about making a magic system around an active religion: there's the potential for offence to some of those of that faith. (Even if you yourself are likewise of the faith in question, I fear.)

thanks for the advice.

I will make two notes of clarity

The first being that the reason I want a rational system (not a hard one) is for the sake of verisimilitude and consistency, while still allowing exceptions. Basically a desire for Magic A Is Magic A. Especially since its doubled as Sufficiently Analyzed Magic to an extent

for the second, I will admit that potential cultural appropriation is a concern I have with the concept (and other aspects of the setting its for in general) as I am not Asian Indian. To that end I am willing to find people of the proper faith and demographics to help me mitigate it. FWIW I'm mainly taking about Hindu mythology instead of the religious practices when I remade the OP.

(As for the suggestions. I'm sticking with Flow for Aquarius, already have something along those lines with Corvus, and already have ideas for Draco and Hydra [Breath Weapon and "scattering" respectably])

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Aug 10th 2023 at 2:01:19 AM

What I'm saying, essentially, is that I don't think that one needs a rational system in order to have those.

It is, I imagine, one way of having them—I'm just cautioning against taking it to be the only way.

Otherwise, I'm glad that you have some of these things in mind already! ^_^

Regarding the constellations:

I've realised belatedly that Orion wasn't actually an archer—but that Saggitarius was.

I'd revise my suggestion then such that Saggitarius corresponds with "aim", while Orion perhaps corresponds with "hunting" or "hunters".

Sorry about that! ^^;

Another idea: Sextans might correspond simply to "navigation".

I'm keeping Pyixs as is for the Navigation one It is the compass after all, and that sees more general use then the Sextant), but will change Aim to Sagittarius.

I think I have enough clarity to realize that Semantic Superpower is in play for some if not all of these (a few being instead straight up modifiers for how the spell operates), but I'm not sure how to use "Hunting" as an effect.

Like with Navigation, the applications are simple. both Homing spells, tracking and of course, pathfinding. But I'm not sure how Hunting would translate to a workable concept that isn't redundant with some other applicable concepts like the aforementioned Navigation.

I also gave the list an overdue update, as there were some tentative ideas I haven't put there at the time.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Aug 10th 2023 at 3:09:48 AM

Some suggestions:

• Aquila: Flies
• Aries: Fights (melee, or hand to hand)
• Canis Major/Minor: Timekeeping/seasonality
• Centaurus: Wisdom, esp. pertaining to constellation magic
• Orion: Pursuit hunting (tracking that which does not want to be found)
• Pegasus: Speed of movement, arriving in the nick of time
• Scorpius: Ambush hunting (Opposes Orion)

So, what are some of the limitations of your magic system?

BTW, we have a magic system thread, and I describe my own magic system here

If may make an argument here, let me suggest that the "Compass" be associated with "Direction", and the "Sextant" with "Navigation".

So Pyxis might be used for, say, sending a spell in a specific direction; while Sagitarius might be used to specify a target (regardless of relative heading); and Sextans might be used to determine a location, whether one's own or another's.

As to "Hunting" as an effect, that's a fair point. Perhaps it might work as a modifier for spells, indicating how, specifically, a given other effect applies?

So, "give me Speed" might make one run quickly, while "give me Speed, as a Hunter" might bring more prey to one's location.

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on Aug 11th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

I kinda assumed it was more for laconic descriptions of said systems, and also felt that this needed its own thread for the purposes I'm after (see title), lest the suggestions be bogged down by other posts or my inquiries be forgotten and needing bumps/harping ad annoyitum.

As for limitations.

• First off, as mentioned before in the OP, people here have an aura, that also comes with it a variable cap on how many base Astras they can use. In addition to the elemental one they are born with. I haven't exactly work out an average yet, but the idea here is that there is a limit on how many of the 120 concepts a given person can use.
• There is also Prana, which is basically a Mana System. A person's prana is used to fuel the spells, but using too much of it will have adverse health effects. Going off the language metaphor, that means a too long sentence will be incredibly risky. Physical asterisks can be used to wave the cost of the associated glyph, but they are saddled by a low but regenerating amount of energy, so they can't be relied on to cast spells prana free all the time. Prana is Life Energy basically.
• Speaking of which I forgot to elaborate on how asterisks enable the learning of astras. Ahem, in this case an Astra has two parts, a star glyph and the asterisks themselves. A person that obtains an asterisk and has sufficient capacity, can absorb it's energy into their aura while "learning" the associated star glyph. This allows them to channel any instance of that glyph to cast the appropriate Astra.
• Tools and technology can also use astras, but A. An inherent lack of prana means they will either drain it from its surrounding life forms or need a supply of the appropriate asterisks to function and B. The effects are likely gonna be passive effects, or keyed to only cast the spells at specific fixed conditions. (Exceptions being sentient machines in all cases as they would also have prana and aura)
• Forgot to mention that in most cases, spell strength is propototional to the amount of Prana used, and how many different base Astras are used. There are ways certain Astras can be used to modify your bang for your buck, but those are rare. Generally speaking the more specific the effect, the stronger it is and the stronger an astra combo is the more prana it consumes. Thus big destructive spells are more in the domain of rituals and certain mechanisms.
• The last limitation here is that the astras can only be wielded by people with a humanoid torso and mostly head, and preferably capable of sentience (see above) normal animals cannot use them. People with the traits of animals can. (This is admittedly a hand wave of sorts, but it also ties into a concept I have regarding why the only species are Human Aliens resembling stages on the anthropomorphism sliding scale that aren't Beast Man and beyond)

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Aug 11th 2023 at 2:00:19 AM

Apologies for the bump. I have updated the list again with those suggestions in mind (except for the dogs. I have already slotted Holorgium as the general Time magic and need a way to split it so that timekeeping is applicable. Likewise I also had made Decay the domain of a planetary astra [Gonggong] for now and freshness seems like its too on top of technically encroaching on the Decay niche besides)

Granted this is because I have the tentative idea of having control of the Astra entails also having the capability of reversing its effect (example: Microscopium being a Sizeshifter power instead of just a shrinking one), or having an Astra representing the concept of reversal as a Counter Spell niche (its a matter of finding out out which available constellation best fits that and if Holorogium's Time Magic doesn't technically cover it.)

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Aug 11th 2023 at 2:15:45 AM

It's good to see some of the suggestions taken on, and the list filling out! ^_^

I do note there that you currently have the same attribute assigned to both Pyxis and Sextans—they're currently both listed as "Navigation".

On a similar note, what currently is the difference between Makemake ("Bonds") and Andromeda ("Binds")?

And thinking about Pyxis, Sextans, and Sagittarius again, perhaps better than "Navigation" for Sextans might be "Location". So my suggestion above would be updated to have:

• Pyxis: "Direction"
• Sextans: "Location"
• Sagittarius: "Aim"/"Target"

Thus giving three different ways of specifying how a spell is directed:

• It may be sent out or apply to a given direction
  • e.g. "Scrye what is to be seen in that direction"—I imagine using Pyxis + Telescopium
• It may be applied to a given location
  • e.g. "Create a door at this spot"—I imagine using Orcus + Sextans
• And it may be applied to a given object, creature, or person
  • e.g. "Make this person fly"—I imagine using Aquila + Sagittarius

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on Aug 12th 2023 at 9:36:13 PM

Crap. Pyxis was supposed to be "Direction" now. This is now fixed

The idea here is "Binds" refers to psychical binds (like chains as per Andromeda's epithet) while "Bonds" refers to social ties (family, friendships and romantics ones)

but now that you mentioned it, I forgot that also had Pisces slotted for bonds as well and need to differentiate Makemake from it now. I removed Bonds form Pisces until I can find a suitable cocnept for either it or Makemake

Ah, good good! ^_^

Ah, I see! Thank you for the explanation! ^_^

(Maybe "Connection" might be a better term for the social version?)

Good point. That is now fixed.

Still looking for constellations that fit the following

• Reversal
• Sleep/relaxation
• Agility (dodging and acrobatics basically)

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Aug 12th 2023 at 11:06:40 AM

• Auriga: Competition/sports (esp public performances) Racing.
• Canis Major/Canis Minor: Devotion/loyalty (the kind of thing a leader would put on a follower or summoned entity)
• Carina: Adventure/successful voyage
• Cepheus:(If you allow curses) Tyrant/weak leader. Otherwise, Acting as king/high noble
• Corona Australus: Winning the prize/competition (it was originally a wreath)
• Corona Borealis: Escaping death/defeating evil
• Cassiopeia: (If you allow curses) Scheming witch/bad mother. Otherwise, manifesting feminine nobility
• Pisces: Timely rescue
• Puppis: Energy, stamina, going the distance
• Sculptor: Undefined power. Flexible, if weak

For "Reversal", I would recommend any of the close southern polar constellations, such as Hydrus or Mensa.

Edited by DeMarquis on Aug 12th 2023 at 3:28:30 PM

Let' see

• will use the suggestion for Hydrus, as well as Puppis (as Stamina) and Corona Borealis (as Agility)
• Will not use the suggestions for the dogs as is, but will derive from them the respective ideas of Summon Magic and Obedience
• For Andromeda parents I think your suggestion were either too vague or overlaps too much with "Grace" (currently under Cygnus). However I instead went with "Slumber" for Cassiopeia and "Numbness" for Cepheus
  • as for whether curses, I want to lean into more neutral concepts and have curses be the result of specific combos. Like using Cassiopeia and Cainus Minor to force a Geass-like ehh..Geas on someone.
• "Timely Rescue" seems a bit too vague, so that out. I might have to look into properties of fish for that one and its southern cognate.
• Flexibility for Sculptor works for now.
• don't think sports or racing (for Auriga) would work, feels redundant with the other speed, movement and strength related ones.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Aug 12th 2023 at 2:29:01 AM

Sorry for the bump again. But I'm still looking for ideas.

That said I am considering two things.

• While I have gateways covered.by Orcus, I must ask of "locking/sealing" is distinct enought for a constellation power, and if so which one fits best?
• I'm also considering having Astra's be more of a meta system with subtypes focusing on specific aspects based on what astras they would use and how they would use it. Though at this point this is putting the cart before the Equuelus.

Locking and sealing a chest or a container of some kind (let alone a spell effect) is different enough to warrant it's own constellation. How about the Milky Way (or use the Milky Way for "flow" (because it's a river) and Aquarius for "Containing")?

If you adopt your new idea, would that mean that only the sub-type/more specific Astras have a star glyph?

Edited by DeMarquis on Aug 14th 2023 at 1:45:03 PM

Hmm... I might be tempted to group "locks and seals" under "bonds"—things which constrain and hold in.

the current idea would be that there are schools of arts that focus on interpretating specific astras in specific ways. (Reminder that this is running on semantics) and using that interpretation as the core modifier or instead use a specific Astra combo (with a specific interpretation still) as the core.

For example. A school would focus on an interpretation of Lyra (sound) that would emphasize the vibrational aspects. While another would use a more conventional in tandem with Cassiopeia (sleep) to focus more on Magic Music lullabies. And one can instead go full Bard instead by just using the conventional interpretation of Lyra

Going back to the language metaphor it could be analogized as "dialects"

As for Aquarius I'll looking into it, but in addition to what Ars said , that also seems bit too close to Scutum (barriers)

(Also, the Milky Way is neither a planet or a constellation. its a Galaxy. Just pointing that out there)

Again, cart before the horse atm. I want to fill out the remaining constellations before going into other aspects of the system.

Decided to slot in a more specialized definition of locking and unlocking for the Triangles. One focused on contaienrs and the sealing/unsealing of metaphsycial/unseen attributes. This should keep it distinct form Andromeda's fopcus on physical binds.

Now I have the following constellations left open:

• Ara (Altar)
• Carina (Keel)
• Columba (Dove)
• Crux (Southern Cross)
• Dorado (swordfish IIRC)
• Equulkes (Foal)
• Indus (Indian)
• Lacerta (Lizard)
• Leo Minor (Lion cub)
• Lynx
• Mensa (Table Mountain)
• Musca (Fly, will generalize to insects if neccesary)
• Norma (Carpenter's triangle)
• Pavo (Peafowl)
• Pisces (Fish)
• Piscis Austrinus (Southern Fish)
• Tucana (Toucan)
• Volans (Flying fish)

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Aug 14th 2023 at 7:23:29 AM

How about Ara (Altar) being the Astra of "Pacifism"?

As in, to raise sacred grounds where violence can't be committed (As in "Incapable of committing violence within the altar's radius all together" Any violence will and shall be nullified upon reaching the sanctuary) and creates sanctuaries where they are most needed, even in the most horrific conditions.

That could work, thanks.

Edit Just want to add that a new page is imminent, and thus I'll be linking my list into my next post as a result

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Aug 15th 2023 at 9:51:01 AM