Follow TV Tropes

Following

Misused: Dark Magical Girl

Go To

To-do list:

    Original post 
OP written by El Rise.

Dark Magical Girl (DMG) is an archetype exclusive to the Magical Girl (MG) genre (hence the trope name). This antagonistic character has a dark and angsty personality, has issues, and contrasts the main heroine. She initially antagonises said main heroine before turning good. The problem with this trope is that a majority of the examples ignore the MG requirement, making them misuse. A wick check is conducted to gauge misuse. The following are the results:

  • 4/50 (8%) wicks pass the MG test.
  • 19/50 (38%) wicks fail the MG test. They fit the characteristics but are not MGs / are not present in a work of the MG genre. Simply being a young female character with magical powers and angst doesn't make her a DMG.
  • 1/50 (2%) wicks are other types of misuse unrelated to the above.
  • 23/50 (46%) wicks are ZCEs and contextless potholes.
  • 3/50 (6%) wicks are unclassified.
This trope boils down to "Anti-Villain, but an MG", which is The Same, but More Specific.

Suggestion: Cut. Disambig it into one or more "angst" tropes (e.g., Anti-Villain, Dark and Troubled Past, Freudian Excuse, etc.).

Wick check:

The issue: Dark Magical Girl is an archetype exclusive to the Magical Girl (MG) genre, so all correct examples must be an MG. Therefore, any example that don't take this into account is misuse.

Wicks checked: 50/50
I: 4/50 (8%)
II: 19/50 (38%)
III: 1/50 (2%)
IV: 23/50 (46%)
V: 3/50 (6%)

    I: Pass 
  1. Characters.Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Fate Testarossa: Character is from a work of the MG genre, though this example needs more context on the "Foil / rival" and "angst" parts (PCE).
    1. Dark Is Not Evil: Fate's Barrier Jacket is black and frequently includes a Dracula-esque high-collared black and red cape. Black is even stated to be her favorite color and she fights with an axe/scythe. While she was a Dark Magical Girl, after her Heel–Face Turn she became the nicest and most lawful member of the entire cast.
    2. Dark Magical Girl: Trope Codifier. Since the series covers over a decade and a half of time, it's able to explore the long term effects that such a role would have on a girl's psyche.
    3. Hair of Gold, Heart of Gold: Even during her tenure as a Dark Magical Girl, she was depicted to be kind and innocent. She then grows up to become the most good character in the series.
    4. Right Handed Mirror: Firstly, she is a right-handed Dark Magical Girl to the left-handed Nanoha.
  2. Characters.Puella Magi Madoka Magica Homura Akemi - Dark Magical Girl: She starts the main narrative as a stoic and antagonistic Magical Girl opposing our friendly protagonist, Madoka. The truth is closer to a inversion as she was on Madoka's side from the start as her Mysterious Protector and began the story as her shy friend. Character is from a work of the Magical Girl genre, though this example is a subversion, not an inversion.
  3. Fanfic.Skylight Pretty Cure - Dark Magical Girl: Cure Crow is the dark magical girl of the Sanctuarians, having been emotionally corrupted by them. Character is from a fanfic of a MG work (Pretty Cure), though this example needs more context on how she is "emotionally corrupted" (PCE).
  4. Manga.Tokyo Mew Mew - Dark Magical Girl: Retasu begins as more of a Chaotic Neutral Magical Girl; motivated by loneliness and fear, the same emotions as the classic DMG, she strikes out at anyone who might learn or expose her secret and hates herself for it. In the 4Kids dub, Renee (Zakuro) pretends she's a Dark Magical Girl and siding with the aliens only to turn on them, though this doesn't make sense upon examination. Character is from a work of the MG genre. Has the "angst" part but no "foil / rival" part.

    II: Not a Magical Girl 
  1. Western Animation - DuckTales (2017): Magica's Living Shadow was a oneshot villain in the 1987 series who proved to be Eviler than Thou, necessitating Magica to pull an Enemy Mine with Scrooge. Their 2017 counterpart Lena on the other hand, is an abused Dark Magical Girl who is only working as The Mole due to being bound to Magica's will, and she ultimately pulls a Heel–Face Turn (in addition to being Webby's best friend). The work is not of the MG genre.
  2. BrokenBird.Video Games: In Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War, there's Brigid of Jungby, Ishtar of Friege, Altena of Thracia (or, better said, of Leonster); either Tailtiu or Ethnia of Friege (by the end of their Kill the Cutie years); Silvia's daughter Lene, her expy Laylea, Larcei's expy Creidne (but not Larcei herself) fit in as well. In the meantime Tailtiu's daughter, Tine/Ethnia's daughter Linda, mix this with Shrinking Violet, but ultimately they get much better. Fire Emblem is not of the MG genre. Doubles as a Broken Bird ZCE.
  3. Characters.Aladdin The Series - Dark Magical Girl: She's a foil for Jasmine as a strong-willed and ambitious young woman who's in love with Aladdin but she's the heir to magical power instead of political. Ultimately she does a Heel–Face Turn. The work is not of the MG genre.
  4. Characters.Buffyverse Faith Lehane - Dark Magical Girl: She's a loner foil for the friendly and perky Buffy. She looks up to an arc villain as a father-figure. She's redeemed from evil with The Power of Friendship. She even managed to be close friends with Buffy for a short while. Not an MG.
  5. Characters.Child Of The Storm Harrys Friends - Dark Magical Girl: With Psychic Powers instead of magic, but otherwise a textbook example, and a Tyke Bomb to boot. Tyke Bomb with Psychic Powers. Misuse.
  6. Characters.Doctor Strange Supporting Characters - Dark Magical Girl: Not as dark as Dormmamu, but still warped although not evil. Disqualifies the "foil" and "MG" aspects of the trope.
  7. Characters.Elfen Lied Lucy - Used to Be a Sweet Kid: She started out as a kind-hearted, but shy little girl, but through enough torment, crippling loneliness, and a psychotic inner voice, became an Ax-Crazy mass murderer bent on killing all humans. Potholed to "crippling loneliness", emphasizing only the "angst" part rather than the MG part (the primary requirement).
  8. Characters.Kiss Of The Rose Princess - Dark Magical Girl: She's working for The Dark Side, and is able to use the same abilities of summoning her knights just like Anis. "MG" part is not present in the example.
  9. Characters.Lady Death - Dark Magical Girl: A magical girl in service to the Big Bad? Check. Endures some emotional abuse from her mother? Check. Ultimately pulls a Heel–Face Turn and helps the heroes out at the end? Double check. The character is not from a work of the MG genre. Just "female character with magic".
  10. Characters.Naruto Gaara - Dark Magical Girl: Gender Inverted. He's a lonely antagonistic foil for Naruto who becomes a good guy and a friend after his defeat in Part I. Just "antagonistic foil who later becomes an ally".
  11. Characters.One Piece Nico Robin - Dark Magical Girl: While first appearing as a Dark Action Girl, an essential part of her Freudian Excuse for the more morally ambiguous things she did was the fact that she has been alone, hunted and constantly in fear of betrayal for about 20 years before the series began. The fact that the Straw Hats expressed unconditional love and friendship towards her made her into a better, less treacherous person. A non-MG has a Freudian Excuse. Misuse.
  12. Characters.Steven Universe Spinel - Dark Magical Girl: Is a cute, young-looking gem who can beat up the Crystal Gems in just the span of a one minute song despite not being designed to be a fighter. She also initially starts out as an antagonist who tries destroying the Earth and is revealed to have deep-seated abandonment issues from being left behind to rot in Pink Diamond's garden for 6 millenia. Check the bolded part of the example.
  13. Characters.The Owl House Amity Blight: Character is a witch / girl that can use magic.
    1. Dark Magical Girl: Fits the bill pretty well: Lonely Rich Kid? Check. Dark and Troubled Past, specifically related to her family situation as a bonus? Check. Sour Outside, Sad Inside? Check. Craves approval from the Big Bad? Not directly, but her desire to join the Emperor's Coven counts. Sees the light because of her Magical Girl Foil? Ooh, double check. Yup, she passes the test.
    2. Foil: She is one to Luz, specifically the Dark Magical Girl to her Magical Girl both start the series as insecure, lonely, and miserable young bookworms with a love of magic who eventually find happiness over the course of the show, but otherwise the two of them are in many ways complete opposites, Luz found happiness after leaving her old life behind for something new, while Amity finds hers by reevaluating the life she already had, while Luz is an out and proud nerd, Amity is something of a Closet Geek, Luz is very much a Genki Girl Cloudcuckoolander troublemaker while Amity is much more restrained, despite her own issues and status as a witch "normal" and initially rather uptight, and when it comes to magic Luz is the Performer to Amity's Technician. It's actually these differences that make them such a great team as they are able to teach each other a number of valuable lessons, with Amity learning how to relax and enjoy life along with not blindly trusting, obeying, or following authority.
  14. Characters.Yu Gi Oh ZEXAL Tron Family - Dark Magical Girl: Not in the literal sense, but plays this narrative role to a T, being a gentle but tragic figure forced into rivalry with the protagonist due to his horrible circumstances. The first sentence is a misuse, non-MG red flag.
  15. ContrastingSequelAntagonist.Western Animation: DMG potholes refer to what the character goes through regardless of whether they are an MG or not.
    1. Steven Universe': Lapis Lazuli was the antagonist of a two-part Wham Episode that begins the show's Cerebus Syndrome. While extremely powerful, she was a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds who took the Dark Magical Girl path of being redeemed by Steven's friendship. She started off lashing out in anger, but once good she proved to be something of a Deadpan Snarker.
    2. Star vs. the Forces of Evil: While all the previous villains were monsters (or half-monster in Meteora's case), the fourth season's villain, Mina Loveberry, is a Fantastic Racist who wants to genocide them all. She also doesn't really have any motives to benefit herself, instead being devoted to the Mewni royal family (or at least, its ancestress, Solaria)—given her backstory, she's more like a Dark Magical Girl without the redemption arc.
  16. Film.Thor - Dark Magical Girl: Gender-inverted; Loki is a sorcerer who Desperately Craves Affection and who believes that his father loves him less than Thor. Loki yearns for Odin's approval while also being envious of his brother, who is a shining example of Asgardian manhood. Loki's strengths, cunning and magic (the latter is, appropriately for this trope, linked with femininity on Asgard), juxtapose Thor's brute force, and he utilizes them to antagonize his elder sibling. Foil character has angst, is envious of main character, and antagonises said main character. Both characters are not MGs.
  17. VideoGame.Persona 3: Non-MG characters with fantastic powers / a dark motif.
    1. Chidori, a telepathic Gothic Lolita whose power is to heal others by draining her own life, and who has known the day she would die since gaining her Persona.
    2. Although a heroic example, Metis from The Answer gets extremely unhappy when it is even suggested she be left alone. It helps that her main color motif is black.
    3. Did We Just Have Tea with Cthulhu?: While Elizabeth isn't evil, she is still one of the most deadly foes in the game and the motivations of her and Igor are left highly ambiguous. However in the Updated Re-release, the protagonist has the delightful option of escorting the princess of darkness around town on several innocent dates where Elizabeth's lack of knowledge on human social behaviour causes hilarity to ensue. For bonus points, you even get to sleep with her, and unlike the other romance options, there is no doubt whatsoever what happened during the Fade to Black.
  18. Wrestling.Angela Fong - Dark Magical Girl: Black Lotus, who isn't physical enough to be an Action Girl, but is dark and manipulative enough to fill this role. She also has personal motivations for her actions. A wrestler persona, not a Magical Girl.
  19. Wrestling.Ember Moon - Dark Magical Girl: Her heel persona as Athena fit quite close to this. There are also certain supernatural elements to her character on NXT that evoke this too, even if she is presented as a face. A wrestler persona, not a Magical Girl.

    III: Other misuse 
  1. Fanfic.Pretty Cure Balls To The Wall - Dark Magical Girl: Dietricha, otherwise known as Cure Reich, is a Nazi Pretty Cure. Context boils down to "this magical girl is evil". However, according to the trope description, the character is required to be sympathetic or an Anti-Villain, so the example is misuse.

    IV: ZCE / contextless pothole 
  1. AChildShallLeadThem.Western Animation: 13-year-old Elyon Brown aka Queen Elyon from W.I.T.C.H. becomes this after a brief stint as a Dark Magical Girl. Contextless pothole
  2. Anime.Cyber Team In Akihabara - Dark Magical Girl: Tsubame Commented out ZCE.
  3. Anime.Fairy Musketeers - Dark Magical Girl: Gretel Commented out ZCE.
  4. Anime.Mahou Shoujo Taisen - Dark Magical Girl: One appears in Rin Kobari's story arc, hinting that it's not all fun and games in this world. ZCE
  5. BFS.Literature: In Nick Perumov's Keeper of the Swords cycle, Dark Magical Girl Sylvia gets to wield a Flammberg that has magic that in Sylvia's hands gives it a properties of a Laser Blade, including near-zero wielding weight (but not for the ones hit). Contextless pothole.
  6. Characters.A Game Of Gods Infinities Champions - Playing with Syringes: As Magical Amber. Commented out ZCE + contextless pothole.
  7. Characters.Blackbird 2018 - Dark Action Girl: A textbook example. Also technically a Dark Magical Girl, though the more sympathetic elements common to that trope are so far not in evidence. ZCE + contextless pothole.
  8. Characters.Fire Emblem The Blazing Blade The Eight Legends - Chekhov's Gunman: He defeated the leader of the dragons, but sealed her away instead of killing her since she was an Anti-Villain. Said leader? None other than Idunn. To say nothing of his role in Champion's Sword... Contextless pothole.
  9. Characters.Game Theory Lyrical Nanoha:
    1. Dark Magical Girl: Can be thought of as an inversion. Fate convinces Nanoha to join her and Precia, and then Nanoha is almost completely separated from her friends and family. ZCE
    2. Dark Magical Girl: Defied; the fic's premise revolves around the fact that Precia acts nicer to Fate, which prevents most of the standard DMG tropes. There's also the fact that Fate convinces the hero to join her side. ZCE
  10. Characters.Harry Potter And The Methods Of Rationality - Dark Magical Girl: Parodied. She imagines herself to be this and plays up the role after staging a fake dark ritual and "sacrificing her soul" to Harry Potter. ZCE
  11. Characters.Jellyneo Random Roleplay - Dark Magical Girl Commented out ZCE.
  12. Characters.Quiz Nanairo DREAMS - Dark Magical Girl Blank ZCE
  13. Characters.The Princess 99 - Dark Magical Girl Commented out ZCE.
  14. Characters.Yuru Yuri - Dark Magical Girl Commented out ZCE.
  15. ComicBook.Scion - Dark Magical Girl: Mai Shen Commented out ZCE.
  16. Film: The Dazzlings from My Little Pony: Equestria Girls – Rainbow Rocks. Sunset Shimmer from the first movie is often thought of as this, as well though since her Heel–Face Turn at the end of EQG and its confirmation in Rainbow Rocks, she no longer counts. Then you have Midnight Sparkle in My Little Pony: Equestria Girls – Friendship Games... Contextless, chained potholes (or sinkholes). Doubles as an Evil Is Sexy ZCE.
  17. EvilerThanThou.Western Animation - Ben 10: Hex ended up being betrayed by his niece and Bastard Understudy Charmcaster in her debut appearance. Contextless pothole.
  18. Fanfic.Oneiroi Series - Dark Magical Girl: Yes, Deirdre's this too. One of the rare examples where one character has both sides, though she leans further towards being a Dark Magical Girl. Commented out ZCE.
  19. Literature.Magical Girls 2018 - Dark Magical Girl: Rico. Commented out ZCE.
  20. Manga.Pretear - Dark Magical Girl: In the anime - Fenrir, aka Takako, aka Mikage; also, to some extent, Mawata while under her influence. In the manga - anyone possessed by Takako, especially her main host, Natsue. ZCE
  21. Series.Magic X Warrior Magi Majo Pures - Dark Magical Girl: Shiori is a villain for the first part of the series. ZCE
  22. VideoGame.La Pucelle: ZCEs
    1. Dark Magical Girl: Princess Eclair.
    2. Dark Magical Girl: Demon Overlord Prier.
  23. VideoGame.Magical Chaser Stardust Of Dreams - Dark Magical Girl: Princess Meteor and Bibin, just as they were in their respective shows. ZCE

    V: Unclassified 
  1. Main.Always Female - Dark Magical Girl Found in an index.
  2. Main.Stock Japanese Characters - Dark Magical Girl: A Magical Girl, or rival thereof, who is quite often a Broken Bird with a Dark and Troubled Past. Found in an index. Reliance on potholes.
  3. Main.Womanliness As Pathos - Dark Magical Girl: A pretty girl with magical powers but is overcome with loneliness and other terrible emotions. Found in an index. Wrong definition.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 6th 2023 at 6:48:04 AM

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#76: Aug 1st 2023 at 11:40:34 AM

I agree with redefining Cute Witch, because yeah right now the description really doesn't fit how the trope's being used. The definition could work being migrated over to Magical Girl Classic.

Edited by PhiSat on Aug 1st 2023 at 12:40:57 PM

Oissu!
GracieLizzy Usagi's done something stupid again (she/her) from Sunderland, UK Since: Dec, 2012
Usagi's done something stupid again (she/her)
#77: Aug 1st 2023 at 12:13:31 PM

Just to point out the classic witchy magical girls didn't have to transform, for example Sally the Witch didn't, she was more like Sabrina - or more specifically she was inspired by Samantha Stephens from Bewitched but made a kid to appeal to a young girl audience.

So I can't think of anything right now... meh.
BlackMage43 Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#78: Aug 1st 2023 at 12:35:40 PM

Black Mage who was trying to claim that Cute Witch should be left out of the current convo entirely while we deal with Dark Magical Girl and Magical Girl, which makes 0 sense.

I'll try to make myself clear: I mostly oppose the suggested idea of "cut Cute Witch and merge into Hot Witch" because I think that's too big of a change to happen in the thread of another trope that's tangentially related, especially when discussion on how to salvage some of the examples into something has been brought up. That discussion should occur in its own thread, where it could get the proper focus.

As for the Classic Magical Girl trope idea, I think it's mostly unrelated to this thread because this thread is focusing on the modern depiction of Magical Girl. Classic Magical Girl is not the counterpart to Dark Magical Girl, Magical Girl Warrior is.

GracieLizzy Usagi's done something stupid again (she/her) from Sunderland, UK Since: Dec, 2012
Usagi's done something stupid again (she/her)
#79: Aug 1st 2023 at 12:59:24 PM

[up] Is it though? I would have thought Non from Majokko Meg-chan would count. She's widely regarded as one of the first magical girl rival characters and that's Magical Girl Classic series not a warrior one.

Edited by GracieLizzy on Aug 1st 2023 at 1:00:04 AM

So I can't think of anything right now... meh.
Tremmor19 reconsidering from bunker in the everglades Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
reconsidering
#80: Aug 1st 2023 at 2:17:33 PM

Cute Witch, from what I'm seeing in the examples, is being used to refer to the use of "witch" as a positive-to-nuetral descriptor of a normal, otherwise-human girl (occasionally young woman) with magic powers. This is as opposed to classic uses of the term "Witch", which defined the term as either a woman with powers from the devil, or at best as some kind of mysterious figure (glenda the good witch, moragan le fey, etc), with powerful magic abilities. The "Cute Witch" concept is broadly gesturing at the idea of "witchcraft" as a magical power that a cute, normal, relatable-to-the-audience girl charcter can have, which did in fact become popularized in the 60s with charcters like sally in Japan, and sabrina and Samantha in the west

That isn't the definition, but it seems to be the concept that's missing from the discussion, and what contrasts it with "Witch Classic"

Edited by Tremmor19 on Aug 1st 2023 at 5:36:59 AM

Twiddler (On A Trope Odyssey)
#81: Aug 1st 2023 at 2:36:42 PM

[1]

I agree with Amonimus that the most tropeworthy way to salvage Cute Witch would be as an archetype inversion of Wicked Witch and if that's what people want to do, then it should be something like "the good witch" or "the goodest little witch",depending on how much stock you put into cute being necessary: a beautiful, often young and youthful witch who is explicitly aligned with goodness, and is primarily concerned with doing good, working to help others / for the public good.

I am concerned however that might be too similar to what we're considering to be Magical Girl Classic, […]

There are good witches that are unrelated to Magical Girl. Off the top of my head:

  • Land of Oz: The Good Witches of the North and South, counterparts to the Wicked Witches of the East and West.
  • Which Witch?: Belladonna is a white witch (one who can only perform good magic) in a contest of dark magic, where all the other participants are Wicked Witches, to win the hand of a dark wizard.
  • Harvey Comics' Wendy the Good Little Witch: Wendy is a young witch girl who does good deeds, making her an inversion of the wicked witch, along the same lines as Casper the Friendly Ghost. Wendy's adoptive aunts are classic wicked witches.

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#82: Aug 1st 2023 at 4:57:52 PM

More non-magical girl cute witches:

  • Kiki's Delivery Service: Kiki herself is a witch-in-training spending time away from her family on a Coming of Age quest. She establishes a delivery service with which to aid normal people with magic. (has the coming-of-age story, but no transformation or separation of civilian and magical life)
  • Soul Eater: Angela Leon is a child witch who, unlike most other witches in the series, is not Always Chaotic Evil and is instead rather innocent.
  • Tara Duncan from Tara Duncan is a friendly Spellbinder who defeats villains from the Otherworld with her friends and fellow Spellbinders. She ages into a Hot Witch as the series progresses.
  • Sabrina the Teenage Witch: Sabrina as a junior high schooler in Sabrina: The Animated Series and a high schooler in Sabrina's Secret Life. She's a petite teenage witch, blond, pretty and usually a Nice Girl. Also, to bring the cartoon in line with the preceding TV films and live-action series, Hilda and Zelda, who were stereotypical old hags in the original comics, became humanlike and pretty, while looking youthful enough to qualify (they look like girls in their late teens in the cartoon).
  • Winx Club: Mirta is much nicer than most other witches in Winx Club and is really the only cute witch, with the other witches at Cloud Tower ranging from Goth Girls Know Magic hot witches to ugly wicked witches. In season two she transfers to Altea and becomes a fairy.

Edited by PhiSat on Aug 1st 2023 at 6:01:03 AM

Oissu!
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#83: Aug 1st 2023 at 6:11:35 PM

[up][up]yeah when I was thinking about the viability of the idea, the first two were the kinds of examples I had in mind. But it's examples like the last one that gave me pause. From the description, Wendy sounds and looks very similar to Sally the Witch and Majokko Meg-chan, the two Ur Examples / Trope Makers of the entire Magical Girl concept in Japan and where the "Magical Girl Classic" archetype comes from. This isn't a coincidence since the Magical Girl archetype was developed via cultural exchange/osmosis with creators from Japan being directly inspired by Bewitched.

I'm not confident we'd be able to distinguish between the two / we'd just end up with "Magical Girl but non-Japanese" and "Japanese Good Witch", especially if we're not limiting Magical Girl to just works in Japan, but any character that fits the archetype (see the earlier discussion on Buffy and Faith as Magical Girl Warrior). But if someone wants to give it a shot, I'm not going to stop them. It'd just have to be from scratch at the TLP given the state of wick check.

[up] Putting aside the tropeworthiness of "cute witch" for a moment, this reinforces the issue that comes with trying to separate the two concepts and why merging Cute Witch into "Magical Girl Classic" was floated.

Both Sabrina and Kiki are often considered examples of Magical Girl / Magical Girl Classic specifically. Sabrina the Teenage Witch is noted to be one of the earliest Western depictions of the trope both on Magical Girl and offsite [1] and Kiki just fits the archetype.

ETA: removed a previous paragraph when I realized I had misunderstood.

Winx Club is another interesting case of the overlap/usage. By the show's terms, the girls are fairies and Mirta is a witch who later becomes a fairy. But in terms of these archetypes, every fairy in Winx Club fits the Magical Girl Warrior definition and the witches fit the Magical Girl Classic archetype. It isn't a Japanese work, but it explicitly was inspired by the Magical Girl Genre and use its tropes.

Edited by amathieu13 on Aug 1st 2023 at 10:28:45 AM

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#84: Aug 1st 2023 at 6:15:13 PM

As for the Classic Magical Girl trope idea, I think it's mostly unrelated to this thread because this thread is focusing on the modern depiction of Magical Girl. Classic Magical Girl is not the counterpart to Dark Magical Girl, Magical Girl Warrior is.

It's not unrelated to this thread, especially since Magical Girl's definition-related issues are relevant to the discussion about Dark Magical Girl. Magical Girl has a wick check and Macron and I already mentioned expanding this thread's scope to cover it in addition to Dark Magical Girl.

(I'm not ignoring the rest of the conversation; I took a nap after my previous post and wasn't present for a lot of this conversation, so I can probably catch up later. I just wanted to address the fact that this thread covers more than one trope.)

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 1st 2023 at 8:20:08 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#85: Aug 1st 2023 at 11:24:37 PM

I would not call the Witches of Cloud Tower classic magical girls, they lack the goodness inherent to Magical Girl Classic. They'd more closely fit Dark Magical Girl as the mean rivals of the Magical Girl Warrior fairies.

I disagree with Buffy being listed as Magical Girl Warrior. She's not a magical girl, Buffy is not a magical girl series.

Edited by PhiSat on Aug 1st 2023 at 12:27:27 PM

Oissu!
GracieLizzy Usagi's done something stupid again (she/her) from Sunderland, UK Since: Dec, 2012
Usagi's done something stupid again (she/her)
#86: Aug 2nd 2023 at 12:14:03 AM

Yeah I always personally considered Sabrina, Wendy examples of this trope even if the trope was codified by Sally the Witch.

Here's another thing to consider as well with Magical Girl Classic, we need to take into account the other type of early magical girl who uses a Transformation Trinket to either get an Older Alter Ego or shapeshift only but doesn't use it to fight or become an idol singer. Shows like Himitsu no Akko-chan, Magical Princess Minky Momo, and in the 1990s Himechan No Ribon.

So I can't think of anything right now... meh.
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#87: Aug 2nd 2023 at 1:12:23 AM

e: nvm

Edited by Amonimus on Aug 2nd 2023 at 11:12:46 AM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Prime32 Since: Jan, 2001
#88: Aug 3rd 2023 at 2:02:57 PM

"Magical Girl Classic" sounds like a decent idea, but if the supertrope doesn't have enough meat to it then it could result in further Trope Decay of Magical Girl Warrior - which already gets misused for Instant Armor users or pure Sentou Bishoujo ("Pretty 7-17yo Action Girl") series like Katana Maidens.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#89: Aug 3rd 2023 at 2:48:38 PM

Thread skim

Cute Witch really is the opposite of the full on 400 year old stereotype Wicked Witch, they are cute, young and use everything you would imagine a Witch using including cauldrons wands and the hat. There is a very big difference from them and a Hot Witch in how they look, how they act and typically are a Magical Student of some sort and are prone to accidents or comic antics with Magical Misuse.

Magical Girl Classic is not a thing. A Magical Girl Warrior can just use the Cute Witch motif, IE Maho Girls Pretty Cure! especially not transformed, thus being some overlap. Before Sailor Moon made a girl version of Sentai that became Magical Girl Warrior, 'Magical Girl' just did not exist as even a term it was just a subgenre of Slice of Life series about Cute Witches or series that use the girlfriend with powers trope.

Dark Magical Girl... honestly is kinda like Char Clone, while some works had some like it before Lyrical Nanoha like Sailor Saturn in Sailor Moon, Fate from that series popularized it to the point where there are constant clones popping up and is essentially a required character of the genre.

I honestly have more of a problem with Black Magician Girl, as a lot of the examples of the misuse I saw are that and not Dark Magical Girl. To the point where I would say renaming that would be more of a thing.

Edited by Memers on Aug 3rd 2023 at 2:55:51 AM

Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#90: Aug 3rd 2023 at 3:57:29 PM

[up]Don't forget that unlike Hot Witch, Cute Witch includes prepubescent witches and Ridiculously Cute Critter witches.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Aug 3rd 2023 at 6:57:40 AM

Kirby is awesome.
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#91: Aug 3rd 2023 at 5:38:15 PM

Except Char Clone itself has its own problems and is currently on the TRS queue.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#92: Aug 3rd 2023 at 10:21:28 PM

Do we have anything for the crowner?

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Orbiting Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
#93: Aug 3rd 2023 at 10:38:08 PM

I think these are all the various ideas that have gotten some kind of traction; let me know if I missed any

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#94: Aug 3rd 2023 at 10:41:44 PM

[up][up][up] Tropes/character types get created by someone using something and it gets popular before it gets run into the ground. Doesn’t exactly matter when it was created 2004, 1991, 1979, 1966 or whenever. If they are foreign tropes, that is also fine.

That one happens to be one of the most prominent character types in Japanese media for over 40 years… it ain’t even a tv tropes thing the Japanese media and internet troped it before this site existed. But thats not the topic here.

This trope here is only 20 years old but pretty heavily documented outside of tv tropes.

[up] The limit option probably works. The character type is always a loner or loner + mascot vs a group or someone who is ready to just Defeat Means Friendship them with a nuke.

Anything with Cute Witch should be in a separate TRS, its unrelated to this trope.

Edited by Memers on Aug 4th 2023 at 12:03:00 PM

amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#95: Aug 3rd 2023 at 11:07:53 PM

[up][up]WRT Dark Magical Girl, I think you have it all covered (though I personally don't remember the discussion for a rename). I'd also say for the limit option to specify that it needs to be a Shadow Archetype of a Magical Girl (whatever form she comes in), as that's where the references to The Power of Love and The Power of Friendship come from.

I think we can limit the crowner to just the Dark Magical Girl stuff and leave the rest off, since (potentially) changing Magical Girl and Cute Witch only becomes important if the limit option is selected. If it is, then we can move forward from there. If not, then I'll just take the two wick checks I did and add Magical Girl and Cute Witch to the queue

Edited by amathieu13 on Aug 3rd 2023 at 2:08:20 PM

GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#96: Aug 3rd 2023 at 11:56:40 PM

I hooked a crowner with everything in Orbiting's post except for merging Cute Witch with Hot Witch, since we already established that those two tropes are too different from each other for that.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 3rd 2023 at 1:57:52 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#97: Aug 4th 2023 at 12:01:46 AM

I'm downvoting anything involving a Magical Girl Classic trope due to the issues Memers pointed out with that (namely, that the archetype doesn't actually exist).

Edited by badtothebaritone on Aug 4th 2023 at 2:06:47 PM

GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#98: Aug 4th 2023 at 12:12:42 AM

I thought about it a bit more and I ended up removing everything except for the ones related to Dark Magical Girl, as suggested in amathieu's most recent post.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 4th 2023 at 2:13:06 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#99: Aug 4th 2023 at 12:12:47 AM

If we wanna actually make a genre trope about early magical girl, which would be Slice Of Magical Life or Slice Of Witch Life, that is an option yes but I don't think that is within the scope of this project. Like Sally the Witch, Little Witch Academia, Kiki's Delivery Service, and the western Sabrina the Teenage Witch to name a few.

We just had an anime which revived a lot of that not too long ago, Flying Witch. EDIT: holy crap that was 2016... no way...

Edited by Memers on Aug 4th 2023 at 1:04:39 AM

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#100: Aug 4th 2023 at 12:15:15 AM

Going back to amathieu's post, in addition to suggesting limiting this thread's crowner to Dark Magical Girl, maybe what was mentioned about adding separate threads for Magical Girl and Cute Witch to the TRS Queue (possibly using a single thread that covers both) using the wick checks originally made for this thread would be a good idea. As for making new genre pages, that would probably have to go through TLP.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 4th 2023 at 3:20:32 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Trope Repair Shop: Dark Magical Girl
3rd Aug '23 11:53:39 PM

Crown Description:

Dark Magical Girl. What should be done with Dark Magical Girl?

Total posts: 120
Top