Germans Love David Hasselhoff / Americans Hate Tingle cleanup

Sorry if this opening post is sucky, I suck at most of the more serious parts of Wiki Fixing.

So! Germans Love David Hasselhoff. I want to make this thread to release some of the pressure off from the Is This an Example and fact checking threads. This is a very well known phenomenon, but it is filled with misuse such as users putting Winx Club as an example within Japan when the show hadnt even arrived legally until recently and even admits its minor and its missing actual tangible confirmed examples like its reception in Russia, Latin America and Brazil where it is very popular (There was even an entry that wanted to pretend Russia hated it until Iginio Straffi and the 18 million views proved otherwise)

Also this thread can help with examples such as Fear And Hunger, a video game with a minimal fanbase in its birth country with a slight bigger fanbase in Russia.

Edited by AegisP on May 8th 2023 at 2:16:08 AM

Well, first you'll need a Wick Check to see how misused the trope is. There is a forum that can help you with that: Wick Check Project

Oh, man, now I look like an idiot.

Edited by SoyValdo7 on May 8th 2023 at 9:08:26 AM

You don't need a wick check for cleanups...

I have taken a good look at Germans Love David Hasselhoff and many of them are anecdotes at best.

I think anecdotes are cool as long as they are well written and factual. Unless I am misunderstanding your definition of anecdote.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a core part of this item that the work in question is more popular in another country than it is in its own? I feel like a lot of examples I see are "thing is also popular elsewhere" without quantifying how it eclipses its homegrown popularity.

Its hard to measure success. Like I hate going to Winx Club again but the max ratings for it in Rai Due at the peak of its popularity was 500K viewers and this is a very successful franchise in Italy. The creator actually considers the show a failure in the USA... despite the fact on Fox it had a 2.2 rating (Ratings that almost rivaled Kids WB who got a lot ratings and bonafide big hits) and on Nickelodeon it had Over 3 million viewers. The worst part is that I cant actually say he's wrong since its more the trope seems to be how beloved a series is within a foreign culture and Winx Club did turn out to be niche because it almost became immediately forgotten after all despite all those ratings.

A lot of entries don't even rise to that level. There's a lot of "X property has any level of following in [country]". Which is not even chairs.

For instance, on the video games page:

The most Halo ever sold in Japan was Halo 3 at around 100k units (vs 14.5+ million copies worldwide - that's not even 1% of its sales!) and sales of the following games dwindled into nothingness. It's fair to say that Halo was never popular in Japan.

Edited by Glowsquid on May 9th 2023 at 9:01:38 AM

OMG that reminds me we need a People Dont Sit On Chairs joke article lol.

Video games do have sales numbers but I wonder how we will treat TV shows because what I mentioned is still an issue.

Keep in mind that percent of the population should be considered as well. For example, Frozen (2013) may have made more money in the US, but it is straight-up one of the most successful movies ever in Japan, making it a valid example even if the total grossage is less. However, that Halo example is still a massive stretch considering 100k is not a lot for game sales in Japan.

The series is definitely one of the more popular games on the original Xbox and the Xbox One in the region, but considering the mindshare that the Xbox in general even has there (entire brand has only moved 2.3 million by early 2022, and 70% of that is the Xbox 360, where none of the Halo titles even breach the Top 5)... eh?

Edited by RacattackForce on May 9th 2023 at 9:23:46 AM

I am starting to think this DOES need TRS after all. And the worst part is that I dont even have the wiki smarts needed to do it.

I'm not sure if it's a case of wiki smarts as it is getting the time and energy to sit down and do research on every single entry for that initial wick check. I once spent well over an hour double-checking and editing the page's Call of Duty example (and the corresponding Americans Hate Tingle example regarding Japan and FPS games) alone. And that's for something that has well-documented popularity in the region (even if it may not be a true example going by strict "more popular than in home country" rules).

Edited by RacattackForce on May 9th 2023 at 9:36:54 AM

Um... yeah I cant do that. Hopefully we wont need the TRS if we just remove the bad apples then.

I mean, I could be over-exaggerating the issue. Maybe one could still be done by dividing examples out based on what has sources and what doesn't, then pushing for a fix wherein all future examples need to source their popularity claim?

I dont think we NEED sources because that could lead to constant links that could die or eventually having us require effort posts or something, and the wiki doesnt want that. What we SHOULD do is that the information SHOULD be easily verifiable. Like something that wont be proven wrong with a single google search. Just like every single other trope if there is no actual verifiable info outside the wiki that confirms it its tossed out as misuse.

EDIT: Let me explain what I mean. If you google China and Growing Pains you WILL find article after article about how beloved that chessy 80's sitcom was in Mainland China and the same goes for A Escrava Isaura. Then it can definitely stay.

Edited by AegisP on May 9th 2023 at 6:47:36 AM

It would be great to expand this thread to discuss Germans Love David Hasselhoff's opposite: Americans Hate Tingle, especially given that the same problems with the former are also in the latter.

I see lots of misuse similar to that Winx Club example with Toei shows (Super Sentai, Kamen Rider, Precure) For example:

• Despite not airing in many countries outside Asia, Super Sentai, Kamen Rider, and to a much lesser extent Metal Heroes and other Japanese tokusatsu shows, have a somewhat moderate if underground cult following in the States as well as elsewhere abroad, with fans relying on fan subbing groups to subtitle the show in other languages.

Cult followings are NOT Germans Love David Hasselhoff, in fact many of these shows have no official Western releases.

The My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic section is also quite egregious, there's entire paragraphs on the Japanese MLP dub despite the fact that these entries mention directly that that dub wasn't popular in Japan

Sounds reasonable. Anyone else down for that?

I think the part of the Japanese section discussing how fans in other countries enjoy the JP dub could maybe stay, as can the final bullet point regarding Equestria Girls being a More Popular Spin Off show that did see success in the region.

Edited by RacattackForce on May 9th 2023 at 1:29:39 PM

Just having a small fanbase in other countries isnt this trope though.

EDIT: Oops didnt see the part about the rest of the world enjoying the Japanese dub.

Edited by AegisP on May 9th 2023 at 10:09:30 AM

Winx wasn't even unpopular in America during its first airing, it was massively successful for 4Kids' goal of getting girls to tune in to the network and managed to get a decently-long running toyline (something Tokyo Mew Mew failed at, for instance, despite strong viewership).

Edited by PhiSat on May 10th 2023 at 2:45:10 AM

Yeah, the 4kids dub of Winx only ended because of Creator Backlash, as the creator was unhappy with the edits made and revoked their license. It's not like Ojamajo Doremi where the show had terrible ratings and toy sales and thus they didn't dub the future seasons, if 4kids didn't get their rights revoked, they most likely would have continued.

I think fundamentally the problem with requiring proof is some of these examples are going to be very hard to prove. A lot of older fandom spaces, like forums, have been nuked and not archived, and we'd need a lot of help from tropers from non-North American spaces who are familiar with these fandoms to weigh in on a lot of examples.

Anything anime applying to North America is probably pretty easy, but when it comes to Eastern examples, for instance, it might be tricky.

Edited by PhiSat on May 10th 2023 at 3:00:33 AM

I think entries that are just: series is very popular in country with no other explanation why/how it is popular qualify as Zero-Context Example and can be cut.

Edited by BocchiTheRock on May 10th 2023 at 5:08:58 AM

Winx didnt even end due to the creator, 4kids was bleeding money and successful or not Winx made them more money by selling it outright.

@Phi Sat: Actually that wont be a problem if we do what I said. Make a rule that if you cant really verify that its a success with a just a simple Google search it gets the can. After all we already established niche and obscure fanbases dont really count.

Edited by AegisP on May 10th 2023 at 2:47:58 AM