Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Goku Black
Fine with Frank. Tbf considering what the plot is based on I kinda figured he'd be an easy keep even before it came out.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Friedrich, Frank and Beast's nazi pair don't seem to have any issues.
Oh and thanks for that Macron!
Yes, yes, old boy, we'd like nothing more than to stay and be a part of your primitive, barbaric society, but duty calls, duty calls...
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
You know, it might not be a bad idea to implement something like a 20-EP limit that aren't at voting stage yet. Otherwise there are gonna be like 30-40 to vote on at once, which is...sub-optimal.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
"The Juice is Loose."
Yeah. Frank seems like an easy keep when voting time starts.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Goku Black
Btw for Frederichs. Kinda curious is he worth a look from the original book too. Note it wouldnt affect this ep as we could just give that one its writeup?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Caesar
@ACW: I don't think such a limit is necessary atm, we're just getting back into the swing of things and playing catch-up...activity will die down considerably more once we've cleared the pendings.
@mir: AFAIK, Friedrichs is an original character created specifically for the Netflix film. There could be other contenders in the book or other movie adaptation, but it wouldn't be Friedrichs.
Edited by Ravok on Jan 16th 2023 at 7:39:04 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
What's the work?
Tavern of Spear is an adult M/M adventure game created by Caro. It follows Eyvind (default player name), a 24-year-old anthropomorphic wolf from the Lost Spear Tribe. Following a tribal tradition, Eyvind left home a year ago and set out on a journey to prove himself as an adventurer. During his travels, he becomes the unwilling residence of a tavern due to a magical fog surrounding the forest area, preventing anyone within the vicinity from leaving.
Who is the nameless chameleon?
The nameless chameleon is a shapeshifter who attempts to instigate a war between the Bull and Lizard tribes. To accomplish this, he kidnaps over half a dozen of their children and places them in horrible conditions in his cave hideout to the point that by the time Eyvind finds them, they're barely hanging on and are basically skin and bones.
The chameleon uses his shapeshifting abilities to frame the other tribe for the kidnappings and apparent deaths. This results in flaring tensions between them to where a Lizard warrior can be killed in the resulting conflict.
When Thane, the bull chief's son, investigates and manages to find the children, the chameleon will attack and put him in near critical condition. This act will drive his father Axel into a vengeful fury and result in him executing three lizard prisoners by hanging them as perceived retribution against the Lizard Tribe unless Eyvind and Axel have enough trust between each other to be talked out of it.
If Eyvind manages to retrace Thane's footsteps back to the hideout, the chameleon will confront Eyvind, disguised as the aftermentioned Thane, to get them to let their guard down to attack them while their back is turned. After that, the chameleon will reveal their true self and sadistically tell Eyvind that once they've killed them, they're going to kill all his friends while wearing his face.
Should Eyvind lose this battle, it will result in a game over with the chameleon raping him before using some sort of Blood Magic that'll painfully twist their bones and contort their body into a completely different shape and form, then cut out his tongue to prevent him from talking. The chameleon, (disguised as Eyvind), will then bring all his friends back into the cave, proclaiming you're some sort of monster who tried to kill them and the real Eyvind is powerless to do anything as they're beheaded with his friends cheering.
Unless certain actions were taken that will allow Eyvind to uncover the truth, one village will be wiped out. Nauxus, the Lizard tribe's leader, for example, will set the bull camp ablaze and everyone in it.
Any redeeming qualities?
No, there's no reason given for any of his actions beyond doing it For the Evulz. During the game over scene, he'll even say: "They can just kill each other till they're all gone, I have enough of what I need from them. You see, the blood of the innocent is as delicious as it is useful."
Heinousness?
The chameleon has few resources to his name, but can successfully instigate a war between two tribes that will result in one of them being wiped out. His actions have a lasting impact on Thane's father, who claims his soul practically has a foot in the Underworld if he executed those three lizard prisoners.
The majority of other villains are just standard RGP enemies who are either non-sapient, have limited characterization, moral agency issues, or lack sufficient villainous acts that make them stand out, such as Seyle whose only ones are trying to kill the protagonist or turning them into a sex slave with his magic should they lose to them in a fight (note: he didn't enjoy it as he's repulsed by the player, nor did he plan on or even want to do it in the first place, but begrudgingly did so on his master's orders).
Final verdict?
Yes.
Edited by CelestialDraco on Jan 17th 2023 at 5:32:26 AM
Ravok is correct, Friedrichs isn't in the book.
Cross-wired freak
Uh, for storykeepers Herod, is he enough of a character? Catching up on eps and apparently he's only relevant in a single episode and onscreen for seven minutes. Is that enough?
Listen to my podcast
Classy, Refined, Unstable
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I'd say 7 minutes on screen is enough of a presence tbh.
Would concur
Ultimate Moral Compass
Glad to be back guys, let's get my mountain of proposals started with a nice keep from last year.
What’s the Work?
Night at the Gates of Hell is a 2022 horror game developed by Black Eyed Priest and Henry Hoare, and published by Puppet Combo.
Done in the style of Puppet Combo's games, the game's about a survivor who finds that an entire city has been overrun by zombies. But not just any zombies. Zombies that have been awakened thanks to a portal to Hell being opened by a deadly cult. It's up to our protagonist and a group of survivors to find a way out of the city and survive the oncoming hordes.
Of course like the movies it was inspired by, there's always one guy responsible for all of this. May I present to y'all said guy.
Who is He?
Father Friedstein is the leader of a Satanic cult who seeks to plunge the world in chaos.
What has he done?
Obsessed with a demonic book that can resurrect the dead, Friedstein partners with several people to help him open portals to Hell that will bring the dead back to life. These include teaming up with schools to use their children as sacrifices.
Ultimately succeeding in his plan by opening a portal in a city, which results in the deaths of countless families, innocents, and even his own cult members who he makes into his zombie minions, Friedstein is last seen giving up his own life to ensure that even more Hell portals are opened around the world, ensuring the apocalypse as an offer to Satan and doing irreversible damage to the world.
Redeeming Qualities?
None. While the game itself can be darkly comedic and goofy at times, Friedstein is played dead seriously.
Heinousness?
The game's a sort of sequel to the developer's previous game Bloodwash, set in the same world as that one. Despite the villain of that game being a Serial Killer who murders pregnant women by ripping out their wombs, Friedstein still stands tall over the standard, kickstarting a worldwide apocalypse and killing tons of people for selfish reasons.
There's a serial killer in the game, but he only has a few measly kills, and isn't anywhere near as visceral or the Womb Ripper from Bloodwash.
Conclusion
An easy, yet simple, keeper
Edited by therealjackieboy on Jan 16th 2023 at 7:57:51 AM
"No running in the halls!"
Caesar
Friedstein sounds like a vile piece of work, the diversity of characters we're seeing today is great!
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Yeah, and by the looks of it, there's gonna be ALOT of votes.
Goku Black
Btw are the current two slightly under the 4 per hour rule? I checked the last page and it hasnt seem to have passed yet.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Professor Gigachad
Yeah my proposal was published on minute 6 and it's minute 3
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Didn't see that last one. Should I remove mine and repost it when the time limit has been reached?
I personally think it's fine, we don't need to rules lawyer this to the second. Let's just everyone be cool and adhere to 24 hours.
Not the Eye
Actually Herod has about 3 or so minutes in a 7 minute flashback
for anybody who wants to check (from 5:30 to 12:10).
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Downer Ending, or do you get to fight Satan?
The Womb Ripper seems awful, but too tragic to count.
Also, for the 24 hours, okay if I round to the nearest hour (or, if not that, half hour)?
Edited by ACW on Jan 16th 2023 at 11:12:36 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Btw good job on the Nazi duo Beast... I completely forgot to double check them after seeing the film years ago!
For The End, one thing of note is that in the Japanese version it has a Dub Personality Change where it outlines its motivations more, as its goals are explicitly stated to bring peace to a chaotic universe and functioning more as a force of nature akin to Galactus instead of a directly malevolent, sadistic being. It even has a Graceful Loser attitude as it realizes what hope and life mean.
So that version of The End might not count, but its original English version definitely does.
Edited by lalalei2001 on Jan 16th 2023 at 11:14:14 AM
The Protomen enhanced my life.
Ultimate Moral Compass
@ACW: More like To Be Continued as you take the fight to Satan in Hell... which hopefully means that fight will be in the next game. Whenever that is.
And also yeah the Womb Ripper, despite being evil herself, has a genuine Freudian Excuse that prevents her from counting.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Jan 16th 2023 at 8:13:41 AM
"No running in the halls!"
Goku Black
Uh didn't Ian Flynn (the english writer) write the entire script (making that the original)? I don't think its necessary to note changes to the original like that.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Frank sounds a truly nasty piece of work, should land just fine!
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!