Fallen Creator cleanup

What should I cut out?

I wanted to add an entry though apparently I have to go through here to do so. Do you think John Boyne could count? As detailed in this Reddit Hobbydrama post https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/yhtk49/books_the_boyne_in_the_striped_pajamas_how_a/, he was the author of The Boy In The Striped Pajamas, a book that was widely popular, according to this source being on the New York Times bestseller list and selling 11 million copies, and required reading in many schools. However, he was always hated by historians of the holocaust for the book's large use of Artistic License – History, and got into trouble when he tried to defend himself and criticize another book for innacuracy, for which he got criticized by the holocaust museum for.

However his later books increasingly got him labeled as an embarrassment. First he was accused of being transphobic for his book My Brother's Name is Jessica for it's misgendering in the title and portraying the titular Jessica being forced into the closet for her mother's political career as a happy ending, and was heavily criticized online for it. Finally, the extent to which his research was sloppy got shown when he was discovered to get a medieval dye recipe from his book A Traveller at the Gates of Wisdom from a recipe for making dye in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild because that was the first google search result when you look up dye recipes.

I think there has been other accusations and arrest involving Yuji Naka. I'm not too familiar with the issue because I have been distancing myself with the video game fandom scene (I'll just keep it to myself about why). Anyone want to weigh in the situation with Yuji Naka again?

I noticed that Ivan Reitman’s entry refers to him in present tense (“ but he still faces a lot of work if he's ever going to fully restore his reputation.”) when he is now deceased.

Someone fixed that in the sandbox. Speaking of which, when should it be launched?

Suddenly remembered I had this.

• The Fine Brothers, Benny and Rafi Fine, were once the owners of React Media and around YouTube's early age, launched their React with their Kids React series, which propelled their subscriber count to the hundred thousands, and later joined up with Maker Studios to create one of the most popular Multi-Channel Networks on YouTube, which would later become Disney Digital Network. They became so popular around that time, Nickelodeon came to them to air a televised version of their franchise called React to That in 2014.
  However, on January 27th, 2016, they announced the creation of a new project called React World, and they also announced that the word "React" would be trademarked. This was met with severe backlash, and while the brothers have since recanted and apologized for the announcement, viewers saw the apology as half-hearted, and for a while, their subscribers began to decline alongside hurting their relationship with their audience in the long-term. The massive failure of React World marked a decline in their writing quality, with critical duds such as Sing It and their only film, F the Prom, being met with universal negative reception. While they had the React series to fall back to, it was nowhere near the popularity it once had thanks to the incident.
  The final nail in the coffin was during Shane Dawson's expose in 2020, allegations from former members of React Media that the Fine Brothers engaged in casual racism emerged, not helping matters were the revelation that Benny Fine made an appearance in Shane Dawson's blackface video, resulting in the brothers' resignation in June 2020, and both brothers have not been heard ever since. Nowadays, the Fine Brothers are a cautionary tale of the consequences of selling out, and are considered one of the precursors of everything wrong with modern social media influencers.

Yuji Naka could qualify as Fallen Creator, Chris X.

The Howard Stern entry (the only entry in the Radio folder) should be cut:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16288755130A46405300&page=6#comment-134

Edited by Nen_desharu on Apr 25th 2023 at 7:39:08 AM

Go to the Locked Pages thread to make that request.

Thanks.

• Transylvanian poet KAF (Kovacs Andras Ferenc) used to be a talented author, with some very good poems. He's still talented but for the past few years, his writing has been influenced by alcohol, and it shows.

Pretty weak context, also his Wikipedia page states he received two recent prizes (Artisjus Literary Grand Prix in 2020 and Prima Award in 2022), for the record the entry was added in 2011 and has not been edited since.

Edited by randomtroper89 on May 7th 2023 at 3:42:36 AM

Cut it.

I'd remove it. Even if it is an example, I feel it lacks context. I doubt it is an example partly because, to me, it sounds more like someone's personal opinion on him.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on May 11th 2023 at 5:49:45 AM

Just noticed this entry:

• Video game writer Masato Kato had a hand in a number of beloved classics in the 90s, including the NES Ninja Gaiden trilogy (the series primarily responsible for popularizing cutscenes and story in action games), Chrono Trigger (one of the most beloved and highly acclaimed RPGs of all time), portions of Final Fantasy VII, Xenogears, and Chrono Trigger's controversial sequels, Radical Dreamers and Chrono Cross. General consensus is that his projects from the early 2000s onward (including an MMORPG and several low-budget DS games) have been almost unilaterally underwhelming and forgettable.

I took a decent look at one of his new games called Another Eden, and it seems to do well so far. Cut?

I believe we discussed cutting him some time ago.

I'm pretty sure Sonic Team doesn't count. There are plenty of recent(ish) Sonic games made by them that have done well regardless of reception, like Sonic Generations and Sonic Frontiers, and the entry argues with itself towards the end by admitting their improving reception.

Edited by badtothebaritone on Aug 8th 2023 at 12:26:09 PM

I was considering discarding Fallen Creator, when I saw the rather large Blizzard and Konami entries. I understand the sheer magnitude of the controversies yet I still hope to cut them done while still giving a beat by beat description of what went wrong.

So I was able to cut the Konami and Blizzard entries down to size, do you think they still get the same point across:

Awhile back, this Condemned by History entry for Chuck Austen's comic work was cut by the clean-up thread. Is there any way this could be reworked into a Fallen Creator entry?

• There was once a time when Chuck Austen was a well-regarded figure and a legitimately popular up-and-comer in the world of comic books. After a number of stops and starts, he was catapulted to fame by the twelve-issue miniseries US War Machine, which played on the mix of the manga boom and the popularity of mature comics to become a surprise hit. When he was placed on Uncanny X-Men, running simultaneously with Grant Morrison's seminal New X-Men, it was no surprise at all to readers. The result? An utterly nonsensical story about Nightcrawler being an actual demon and a conspiracy by a sect of the Catholic Church to have him appointed as The Pope. An arc that served as a bizarre retelling of Romeo and Juliet that featured rednecks wearing Powered Armor and a midair public sex scene. The story where the Juggernaut pulls a Heel–Face Turn and bangs She-Hulk for no reason. And the introduction of Creator's Pet Annie Ghazikhanian (based off his wife Ann Austen, more known as a writer for Power Rangers than anything else). Austen also had short runs on many other famous books, from The Avengers to Captain America, each time being chased off by increasingly irritated fans. He eventually jumped ship to DC, who handed him Action Comics, at which he proceeded to write a Derailing Love Interests plot that pleased neither Lois Lane fans nor Lana Lang fans. It would be his last mainstream work, and he's since gone back to TV animation (which he had been doing before going into comics). Strangely, perhaps because of him not writing them, the shows he has worked on have been successful. He's even credited under the name Chuckles Austen.

Its been five months since Yuji Naka was sentenced to prison for insider trading. I think its time for him to have an entry.

I agree. Might draft one later.

In addition, I was wondering recently if Rooster Teeth would warrant an entry at all? Between the multiple labour scandals where it was found they were using crunch, allegations of racism in the workplace and an ugly scandal involving sexual misconduct on top of many of the original cast leaving and their most recent content getting universally negative reviews, the company appears to be seen by most people as nothing but a shell of its former self. There are also videos like this one which show just how far the company has fallen with most people.

I just want to check however, as I know there's a major difference between Overshadowed by Controversy and this trope and it can be a bit of a blindspot for me! But either way, it seems mostly agreed that the company isn't what it used to be at all and their most recent content is barely scraping above 10k views on youtube.

Edited by Atlantis1930 on Dec 2nd 2023 at 5:11:03 PM

These two entries look kinda fishy tbh.

• George Broussard was a pioneer of the shareware model of distribution with Scott Miller and their company Apogee Software (later 3D Realms); he saw his breakthrough in 1996 with Duke Nukem 3D, which was an incredible success. The he announced Duke Nukem Forever... and the rest is (sad) history. Given how he managed the whole fiasco, only the most ardent fans still believe in him. Thanks to the efforts of Gearbox Software and Randy Pitchford, his dream lived on, but, alas, it was not to be - Duke Nukem Forever hovered in the mid-40 percent range on GameRankings for the Xbox 360 and, most unfortunately, PC versions. The game was derided as being several years too late, looking and playing dated. The script was described as overly crude and even hypocritical - an early scene in the game has Duke turning down a suit of Halo-style power armour with derision, except he is now only able to carry two weapons and has a regenerating health bar... exactly like Halo.

Broussard's entry is more of complaining about Duke Nukem Forever than the impact Broussard himself caused (read: constantly updating the game's engine and scrapping tons of work already done). Also, his involvement is only referenced through a web link without much elaboration.

• John Romero was a revolutionary. He helped design the ultraviolent masterpiece Doom, and earned such respect there is a whole genre based on the Trope Codifier: First Person Shooters. But, when the sodomy-threatening publicity for Daikatana came along, and the game's release date was changed so much for what turned out to be a game so bad it is frequently described as one of the worst games ever, nothing has been the same. He lost his prestige, his company, his girlfriend, and even his hair. He eventually apologized over the ad and the quality of the game.

This entry seems to be horribly outdated because Romero managed to bounce back with release of Doom-related content, most notably, the Sigil episode for the first game, which did greatly and has received a very recently released sequel, which is doing just as good so far.

Romero should definitely be removed. Also, I doubt his hair loss was a direct result of Daikatana.

• Multimedia - All three examples seem to be relevant to the trope
• Comic Books - Chris Clairemont's entry isn't detailed enough. It doesn't explain his rise or fall, or how bad his fall was. The rest are fine
• Film - Directors -
  • The entries for Robert Altman, Peter Bogdanovich, Blake Edwards, William Friedkin, Nicholas Roeg, and ZAZ read like Audience-Alienating Era.
  • Entries for Tod Browning, Fred Dekker, Stephen Herek (who I don't think was ever that big in the first place), John Hughes, Roland Joffe, Hideo Nakata, Rob Reiner, and Takashi Shimizu reads more like Creator Killer.
  • Unsure about Michael Cimino, who's a One-Hit Wonder. However, his entry does mention that he was difficult to work with
  • Unsure about John Mc Tiernan. his entry seems to be more AAE and Creator Killer, and I don't think anyone really talks about him that much. Same with John Singleton
  • I think M Night Shyamalan is no longer seen as "Fallen"
  • I think Robert Zemeckis is closer to AAE than Fallen
• Film - Actors
  • Unsure about Molly Ringwald. In addition, I think most people like Robin Williams
• Film - Other
  • I think Warren Beatty is mostly ignored. The last time he was in the spotlight was that incident at the Oscars
  • Was Vincent Gallo ever that big a deal in the first place?
• Literature - Martin Amis entry seems like a case of a writer suffering from a brief hiccup, and I'm not sure how big he was in the first place
• Live Action TV - Verity Lambert seems to be a case of a notable producer suffering from a minor hiccup
• Newspaper Comics - Only one entry. He keeps
• Web Original - Both Entries seem valid
• Western Animation - I don't think Earl Duvall ever became big enough to fall hard. The two John's are fine though

Will get to Music, Professional Wrestling, Theater,Video Game Companies, and Video Game Designers later

I'd like to add Hideo Baba under the Video Game Designers category since it's clear at this point he's left the video game industry altogether.

• Hideo Baba was once a rising star producer in the RPG scene, directing the vastly successful Tales of Destiny R and becoming the Tales Series brand manager after Tales of Innocence. However, his reputation began to slip after the Wii version of Tales of Graces shipped with many major Game Breaking Bugs and Tales of Xillia and Tales of Xillia 2 were Christmas Rushed to meet the series' 15th anniversary. His reputation was then completely destroyed when Tales of Zestiria was thrashed for very controversial story decisions (and bugs) and Baba was seen to have thrown the game's voice actors under the bus at fan events to avoid personal criticism. After being Kicked Upstairs out of his brand manager role, Hideo Baba left Namco Bandai altogether to join Square Enix, but two short years later left the video game industry completely after releasing no new games. Nowadays, Hideo Baba is best remembered for his failures rather than his successes, with the success of his earlier work being thought of to have happened despite his presence rather than because of it.

The entries for John Kricfalusi and Butch Hartman on Condemned by History were cut because of Square Peg, Round Trope concerns, with the Troper feeling they were closer to Fallen Creator. While John K already has an entry on this page, Butch Hartman doesn't. Does Hartman qualify to be on here?