Values Dissonance/Resonance Cleanup

Society Marches On is included here too, correct? There are some on-page examples that don't fit the waiting period even if they might otherwise qualify. For example:

• Contradiction has characters say that salvia divinorum is a legal hallucinogenic. About a year after the game's release, the UK (where the game takes place) made it illegal to supply, produce, or import it.

Said game apparently came out in 2015. Even if saying the hallucinogenic was legal does currently date it as it's no longer legal, for all we know, they could make the stuff legal again in the next nineteen years.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

I'm not gonna lie, I looked on YMMV.NWA, mainly because the artist had a song called "Fuck Tha Police".

• Values Dissonance: "Fuck The Police" contains a homophobic slur in reference to male police that get too handsy.
• Values Resonance: "Fuck The Police" has become a sort of anthem of 2020 due to the death of George Floyd.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Aug 25th 2020 at 10:54:26 AM

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!

Quite obviously neither of those have any reason to keep.

Does a difference in political ideology count as values dissonance? There are a few works made by White supremacists that have something like "Values Dissonance: This work is made by and for White supremacists, so it will naturally be extremely offensive to anyone who isn't also a White supremacist." on their YMMV pages. Examples of pages with such examples include Ethnic Cleansing and The Turner Diaries.

And theoretically the now-deleted StoneToss, though the creator's politics were a major point in that recent debate.

Edited by bwburke94 on Aug 27th 2020 at 7:17:57 AM

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

Unless it comes from a time period when white supremacy was more normalized than it is now, or from a country that somehow ties white supremacy into its culture, then it's misuse. And even them, I'd feel uncomfortable listing objectively hateful political ideologies as VD because that might suggest there's some time or place when they're acceptable at all.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

If it's political or a minority view at the time, it's (probably) not VD. If it's old enough that the values were held by a decent chunk of the population, it can be VD.

YMMV.Super Smash Bros Ultimate

• Values Dissonance: While Western Fighters Pass predictions tend to focus on one-upping the inclusion of Ryu and Cloud in Smash 4 's DLC lineup, Nintendo thinks Terry Bogard and Min Min are just as worthy of being Smash DLC, and that it would be okay to pick Banjo & Kazooie over characters from more successful Microsoft franchises that are still receiving games/updates to their games. This is because Japanese pop culture is more favorable to cult followings than Western pop culture, meaning a few hundred thousand fans are all a series needs to get the same treatment as one with over ten million fans in the West.

I don't even know what this trope is and this feels like misuse.

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"Japanese pop culture is more favorable to cult followings than Western pop culture" feels quite inaccurate given that I've seen many examples under Cult Classic that apply to Western fandoms.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Asking about this example from YMMV.Calvin And Hobbes:

• The reason why Rosalyn becomes the default babysitter; before anyone would come to watch their son, Mom and Dad leave Calvin alone while having a night out. Yeah. Mom's pretty lucky that the worst thing Calvin did was watch a scary movie and booby trap his bedroom door.

As I mentioned in the "Fixing zero context examples" thread, this doesn't actually explain how it's an example of Values Dissonance. Someone said to delete it because "This is a straight-up misreading of the text. They've always gotten a babysitter for him, but he drove away everyone except Rosalyn with his antics." but that doesn't really address whether or not leaving him at home is an example. (Also, they initially laughed at the idea of doing so, so I'm not sure if it was meant to be portrayed as something acceptable.)

There was a brief arc early in the strip's run where Calvin's parents leave him at home by himself while they went out for a couple of hours, which Calvin and Hobbes spent watching a scary movie, leading to his mom walking into a Bucket Booby-Trap when she got home.

That said, it was only that one time.

Anyway, I'm sure the Values Dissonance aspect is from the fact that Calvin's six years old...

Edited by fragglelover on Aug 29th 2020 at 4:23:08 AM

I honestly have to idea what to do with this example from YMMV.The Beautiful Skies Of Houou High:

• Values Dissonance: A story about straight camp Played for Laughs didn't go over so well with younger Japanese people and in the States and the reason why the English translation was dropped.

I'm not sure if it has enough context, whether the idea of straight camp as portrayed is in any way related to modern Japanese values, or anything. I didn't do anything with it while commenting out ZC Es, because of my confusion.

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The series plays Cure Your Gays completely straight and frames it as the correct attitude to have. This did apparently cause backlash in Japan, but the response in the US was much more intense, to the point where the American distributor stoping physically publishing the series after volume one, while the entire series at the very least continued to be printed in Japan. So the dissonance could lie in the intensity of the backlash.

Edited by TheMountainKing on Aug 31st 2020 at 2:11:08 PM

This was just added to Shrek 2:

• Values Dissonance: Doris the Ugly Stepsister is considered one of the most controversial characters from the film nowadays due being modeled like a drag queen. Let aside the fact that she was given a larger role in the following film, it seems evident that Dream Works intended her to look like a transvestite or a transgender person. With how closed-minded the public is today despite the fact that we are in a progressive era, a character like Doris would not have been included in the film if it were made today and if it were, it would receive a lot of controversy and would provoke campaigns to censor the movie.

“Closed-minded despite living in a progressive era”

That’s not a red flag. That’s a siren going off. Nuke from orbit.

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"You think it's not in good taste to make a trans-coded character voiced by a man the 'ugly' one? How close-minded of you!"

Besides, it hasn't reached the waiting period anyway (the first Shrek is only nineteen years old).

Edited by mightymewtron on Sep 3rd 2020 at 5:41:08 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

And it hasn’t been 20 years yet, so that makes it an instant cut either way.

Edited by jandn2014 on Sep 3rd 2020 at 5:40:31 AM

back lol

In that case . . . does it even belong on this wiki?

Not to mention, Doris is a hero, and gets included in the princess circle. She's cool. Would they have rather had a villain be trans/drag-coded?

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I think she was aligned with the villains in Shrek 2 (she recommends Puss to the king as an assassin to kill Shrek) and has a Heel–Face Turn before the third movie. There are some Lady Looks Like a Dude jokes in the movie that probably carry Unfortunate Implications, which is kind of just par for the course for early 2000's movies. Still, not nearly the worst kind of joke of that nature.

Edited by mightymewtron on Sep 3rd 2020 at 5:53:51 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

I think that might've been the other stepsister, possibly, because she was part of the villains team in the third movie and worked at the bar.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I was going off of this. The wiki says the other stepsister took over for her when she went to hang out with Fiona. It seems true the other stepsister was more evil. But I digress. It hasn't reached the 20-year point and even if it had, it's written in an inflammatory way.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Yep.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

From Final Fantasy V:

• The first part of the game involves the main characters trying to convince different world leaders to stop overexploiting the crystals. In Walse, the king acknowledges the problem but refuses to take action for political reasons. In Karnak, Library scholars have been blocked from entering the kingdom with a wall and Cid is locked up for trying to take action himself.note This was all a good twenty-plus years before the worsening climate crisis (and the politics surrounding it) of The New '10s.

The climate crisis doesn't belong to any decade in particular, and we already knew it was happening around the time FF5 came out.

Edited by Vilui on Sep 9th 2020 at 9:41:58 AM

From JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Battle Tendency

• Values Resonance: Joseph's introduction where he saves Smokey from two racist cops has gained an increased amount of relevance from Western fans in wake of protests against systemic racism and police brutality in the US from the killing of George Floyd

I cut this entry on the basis that police brutality and racism has always been a thing (there's an episode of The Fresh Prince of Bel Air with the same topic, minus the brutality)

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.