The Scrappy Cleanup

Well, Base-Breaking Character is still pretty narrow (or at least should be), so I'd say it should be fine.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

I was referring more to the fact that you called these things subtropes of The Scrappy, which by our current rules is impossible if they accept things besides The Scrappy. I'll try and dig up the thread later to contextualize things more. Base-Breaking Character being somewhat restrictive doesn't really change things.

Wait, here it is. Bless the new search.

Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 17th 2024 at 3:19:35 PM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

At least for Rescued from the Scrappy Heap, I think listing characters who had notable hatedoms, but didn't fully qualify as Scrappies should still be fine, since it's still a significant enough event in a work's fandom, and it's a positive reaction, so having stricter standards to prevent complaining isn't necessary.

For Take That, Scrappy!, examples about not-quite-Scrappies should at least be limited to cases where it's clearly a deliberate nod to the character's hatedom.

Might be best to discuss Rescued at the linked thread, since there's a lot that goes into that specific situation (it determines more than just the scope)

Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 18th 2024 at 1:43:31 PM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Got an issue with the scrappy from YMMV.Spider Man Black Cat The Evil That Men Do

• The Scrappy: Garrison Klum is quite hated, with many fans just wishing he never existed. Although this was clearly the intention, this seemed to have worked a little too well as a lot of fans were so disgusted by someone like him appearing in a relatively light-hearted franchise such as Spider-Man that they turned off reading the story altogether. All in all, it feels like he would be more fitted to be an enemy of Darker and Edgier superheroes such as The Punisher or Daredevil rather than Spider-Man.

Looking online the comic seems pretty hated overall and he’s just one more minor reason to hate it than detracting from the quality of the work.

In honor of Akira Toriyama

Should we remove Jar Jar Binks’ entry from the Star Wars page given he was Rescued from the Scrappy Heap in The Clone Wars? Or should we keep him for historic purposes?

I believe this question was brought up before but a concensus was never reached

Edited by Mariofan99 on Apr 20th 2024 at 6:33:22 AM

Did we ever reach a broader consensus on the way we handle sequels and franchises?

Personally, if different works have different YMMV pages, I'd be fine listing both tropes against the relevant works (e.g. The Scrappy againsy the prequels, Rescued from the Scrappy Heap against Clone Wars). But not sure if consensus took things in a different direction?

Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 20th 2024 at 11:41:50 AM

I think we should keep him there but add a tidbit about how he was Rescued from the Scrappy Heap, because having him listed as The Scrappy on one page and Rescued from the Scrappy Heap on another would probably just confuse people.

Edited by LarryT on Apr 20th 2024 at 5:54:11 AM

In honor of Akira Toriyama

We never reached a decision because, once again, the definition of Rescued is up for debate here and these things need to be addressed first.

Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 20th 2024 at 12:12:05 PM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

So we need to decide on the scope of Rescued from the Scrappy Heap before considering if/when we allow overlap?

Half-relating, questions about Replacement Scrappy:

• Should it have a waiting period like Scrappy/BBC? If so how long (6 months or 2 weeks because it isn't as strict)?
• Does it allow overlap with The Scrappy if they also qualify by their own merits as opposed to just replacing, or used in place of regular Scrappy as the sub-trope? (Answering that might help sort out the issues with Rescued.)

Personally, I think that a Replacement Scrappy, given it's name, can also count for a regular scrappy. There’s also naturally gonna be a layover before a consensus is made about a replacement character.

I also have a question about these examples from the YMMV of Megadeth:

Discombobulate.

misread

Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 21st 2024 at 3:29:33 PM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I think Jar Jar is such a completely infamous case who went so long as one of the biggest Scrappies in fandom history, he at least deserves his section as a historic entry.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

I second that (or at least something similar to the Condemned by History section for Disco). Given Jar Jar's reputation, including having an entire podcast about his Hatedom and legacy, that idea has merit.

Discombobulate.

I mean, if it's a subtrope ^note which is under debate, then policy-wise we are expected to not have an example. I've never been a fan of making exceptions for notable cases just because I feel like it's an avenue for others to see it and assume it's okay elsewhere, but... eh

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

But as The Scrappy and related tropes are YMMV, they're also arguably work-specific, not character-specific for a whole shared-universe continuity.

Hence the question about whether it's appropriate to list The Scrappy for a film and Rescued from the Scrappy Heap for a sequel, which seems reasonable to me even if it is a a subtrope, as they're different works.

Maybe. I was more responding to the idea of doing it because Jar Jar is infamous, which is a different argument.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Jar Jar is proof they can fit both. The issue is how do we define such infamy objectively enough to say if other characters qualify for both? (Even YMMV needs some objectively, like Scrappy a majority hate. We've disallowed examples for anything we couldn't make sufficiently objective like Idiot Plot as the threshold was too subjective.)

I say they have to be a Scrappy for at least 5 years before being Rescued, thus they were hated long enough to leave sufficient mark in fandom/culture that warrants both to explain/even successful rescuing won't remove/absolve. (Intensity as opposed to duration of hate is too subjective to use as a metric.)

Thought about that? Any other amounts/metrics to consider?

I don't think we're going to get a single rule that works for everyone.

A Long Runner show might have 100 episodes in those 5 years. Or you might have a book or film with nothing for ten years, then a sequel that rescues the character. Which also brings us back to that multiple works question.

As written and agreed elsewhere, we allow three months for a Scrappy to be rescued.

...Also this is all still related to the questions on the other thread. I really don't feel comfortable making decisions right now.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I like the idea of having some sort of time limit but i wonder if 5 years is too short

The Take That, Scrappy! page for Other Media has this in the Web Videos section:

• Barney the Purple Dinosaur is basically a wet dream for anybody who's wanted to see Barney get tortured and treated as The Chew Toy.

The main page for The Scrappy specifically says that characters like Barney don't qualify, because they're hated by people who are not in the show's target audience of very young children. Should this be kept?

Hoodude from Monster High is listed as The Scrappy in the toys folder, but the franchise's YMMV page mentions that he has some fans. Out of curiosity, I googled "I hate Hoodude" to see what would come up, and the top results were posts defending him. One bit of fanart on Reddit got over 200 upvotes, and one comment, "everyone hates on him but he's one of my faves" got over 100 upvotes. He seems more like a Base-Breaking Character.

Sandbox help wanted.

I think Jar Jar Binks should be kept as a historic example like Disco for CBH because of how significant the hatedom was, noting that while he was perhaps the poster boy for the trope and the massive backlash against the character, the backlash is far weaker than what it is perceived as due to The Clone Wars characterization, Sequels backlash, and greater awareness of toxic fandoms and what Ahmed Best had to go through over this character.