YMMV / The Republic

• Base-Breaking Character: The work's portrayal of Socrates is a prolonged Establishing Character Moment for those who read about him for the first time, but his cross-examinations with the rest of the characters can be very divisive from a modern standpoint. In a pole of the continuum, some see him as an epitome of rational thinking that spends the work battling proponents of the worst of his society's thought. On the opposite pole, others see him as a rhetoric-wielding bully who only faces obvious strawmen and whose only repertoire seems to be forcing arbitrary analogies that favor him into their debates. True to form, Socrates never leaves the reader indifferent.
• Fair for Its Day: Phenomenally so in its treatment of women. Socrates, while by no means devoid of certain questionable attitudes, emphasizes several times (among other things) that the Guardians and Auxiliaries may be male or female, directly stating that women are just as capable of possessing the required virtues (justice, courage, fortitude, intelligence, et cetera) as men. Consider that it would be more than 2000 years before women would even achieve suffrage, and his argument becomes pretty damn impressive... that said, it's fairly depressing that that alone merits a description as "impressive". That being said, the fact that, even today, Socrates' views on women would be considered taboo by certain groups and cultures does make them stand out.
• Hilarious in Hindsight: A blink-and-youll-miss-it moment in the second book: Glaucon considers what would happen if Socrates were to establish a state run by pigs...
• Nightmare Fuel: Didn't expect to see it here, huh? Well, in Book 2, Glaucon uses the story of Gyges's ring to make a point. He explains to Socrates that the ring would allow its user to turn invisible (a rather familiar concept). The user, independent of whether they are just or unjust, would inevitably abuse its power. They would steal from, kill, or RAPE whomever they wished.
• Values Dissonance: Values have changed since the days of ancient Greece, to put it mildly.
  • The ideal Republic embraces a strong nationalism, authoritarian elite government and even eugenics, while democracy is condemned as a hopelessly failed system of government that will only keep failing, since it runs contrary to human nature. These beliefs are generally not popular in 21st-century liberal democracies. Noticing these trends in his political philosophy, some 20th-century historians have even argued that Plato was the original fascist.
  • Others have argued that Plato's ideals are actually closer to the other totalitarian ideology of the 20th century. People of this mind often say that the Soviet Union was the closest Plato's Republic ever came to realization. In particular, they argue that Plato's philosopher-kings, an undemocratic intellectual elite, is a similar ideal to that of Lenin's vanguard party. Not to mention where he says the Guardians must not have private property, and even hold wives in common.
  • While Socrates accepts homosexual love in the dialogue, he also affirms that it should be Platonic only, and advises that those who indulge of the same physically must be punished for corrupting culture and society.
  • Despite being known for unusually "progressive" views on women, he is also emphatic in stating that Men Are Better Than Women as a fundamental point in his argument. What makes him "progressive" in spite of this is his recognition that, due simply to normal distribution, there will be an occasional individual woman who is as good as a man intellectually (despite women being much inferior as a group, as he sees things), and these rare exceptions should be given education and opportunities like men. While perhaps enlightened for the time, this is still not a belief that would be generally acceptable in modern "Western" society, where the ideal is full female participation in politics and the professions.
  • There's also Plato's attitude towards arts and culture. His ideal state includes regulations on what kinds of musical instruments can be used ("There remain then only the lyre and the harp for use in the city, and the shepherds may have a pipe in the country"), and a sweeping censorship of most forms of media ("hymns to the gods and praises of famous men are the only poetry which ought to be admitted into our State"). This censorship even includes the works of Homer - which might be shocking to people reading his books for the first time if they are studying ancient Greece.

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