The Lion King II: Simba's Pride / YMMV

Accidental Innuendo: From "One of Us", "he asked for trouble the moment he came."
Adorkable: Kovu certainly has his moments, such as when he's with Kiara or learning new concepts like "some things are just fun." A major one is right after his Accidental Kiss with Kiara, where he is left in utter befuddlement and slight confusion, whereas Kiara, while still embarrassed, realizes what happened.
Ass Pull:
- The very concept of the Outlander Lions is a hard pill to swallow. The original film depicted Scar’s rule as having a 0% Approval Rating with every non-hyena (and even the hyenas were critical of him) residing at Pride Rock detesting Scar’s rule, but having to accept it on account of nobody being strong enough to defy him. Yet this film reveals Scar had a mate and three adoptive children, none of whom had their existence even hinted at prior to this film. Furthermore, no explanation is given as to why Zira, her cubs and the other loyalists weren’t present for the final battle of Pride Rock, or why Scar was willing to condemn the entire lion population to starvation if there were lions besides himself he cared about.
- Twice, Zira is able to know just where the protagonists exactly are, despite having no general idea where they could be. This is especially glaring with the ambush, as Simba makes it clear he came up with this idea himself, and Zira should have had no idea where Simba and Kovu were going to be.
- Likewise, although Kiara and Kovu have absolutely no idea where the two prides are fighting, they manage to arrive there incredibly quickly.
- Somehow, Kovu was picked by Scar as a heir, despite the fact he is supposed to be the same age as Kiara, who was shown to have been born a while after Scar's death. Given Kovu's apparent age, its unlikely Zira would have even been pregnant with Kovu at the time Scar was alive. And yet Zira and everyone acts like he was groomed as a heir by Scar anyway. Its possible its simply a delusion of Zira but there is no indication of this in the film, other than her own insanity.
Award Snub: Many people felt Suzanne Pleshette should have won an Annie Award for her portrayal as Zira. For what it's worth, she was nominated.
Base-Breaking Character:
- Simba. A sizable number of fans thought that his transformation into an overprotective dad and awful treatment of Kovu was at least partly justified, considering the trauma that he suffered in the first film and even the circumstances that brought Kovu to them/to the pride in the first place. Others felt that Simba was being incredibly smothering toward Kiara and saw his treatment of Kovu as excessive Jerkassery. His actions at the trial definitely made even his most sympathetic defenders see him as a colossal jerk.
- Timon and Pumbaa. Many think their presence is rather unnecessary in most parts of the plot, and their jokes, especially those that inexplicably refer to human concepts, feel unfunny and quite forced. There's even a Fan Edit that completely removes them from the climactic battle. That being said, others find them as hilarious as always and think their jokes help to make the most emotionally dramatic moments of the film easier to swallow.
Contested Sequel: To some, Simba's Pride is a great extension of the original film. To others, it's clunky and riddled with plotholes. And then there are those who think that it, while not without its flaws or as good as the original, is still a fairly enjoyable film in its own right (especially when compared to other Disney sequels). This is really saying something, however, considering how other Disney DTV sequels have fared. The same can be said for The Lion King 1 ½.
Ensemble Dark Horse: Vitani is this in the fandom for her cute appearance as a cub and for being a Dark Action Girl as an adult.
Evil Is Cool: Zira is near universally considered one of the better Disney sequel villains due to being genuinely threatening, occasionally entertaining, and having a very intense Villain Song.
Fan Nickname: There is one Outsider lioness that fans have latched onto nicknamed Dotty, due to the small spots surrounding her eye.
Fan-Preferred Cut Content: Near the end of the film, Zira meets her end by falling down a cliff after refusing Kiara's offer to help her up. In the original version, rather than losing her grip, Zira crazily whispers "Never..." and lets herself go down, showing that she'd rather die than accept help from a Pridelander. This ending was rejected for being too dark, but some fans have shown a fondness for it, because it's totally something Zira would do and there are plenty of dark moments in this movie.
Fanfic Fuel:
- Scar is not Kovu's father, but is he really the father of Nuka or Vitani?^note If not, where is their father? Do the siblings even share a father or not?
- The Outsiders' relationship to the Rock Pride, and why they weren't in the original film.
- Where did Zira originally come from? And why would she have supported Scar, when it must been obvious to everyone that he was unfit to rule?
Fanon: Many fans take the original version of Zira's death as canon, as it emphasizes just how much she hated Simba - when given the choice of dying or being saved by Simba's bloodline, she embraces death and smiles all the way down. Fortunately, since the finished scene cuts away just before she falls and still uses frames of the original ending, it's easy to pretend she chose to die by her own hand.
Foe Yay Shipping: Believe it or not, there are people who have created a Simba/Zira pairing.
Genius Bonus: While not stated outright, as it's intended to be for all ages, people who recognize the symptoms will realize that Simba likely has post-traumatic stress disorder as a result of what he went through in the first film. He clearly has trouble sleeping, can quickly go from kind and nice to aggressive and harsh in one second (though the latter behaviour is mostly for Kovu and the rest of the Outsiders), and is endlessly fixated on what his father would have done, all clear symptoms of PTSD. However, he gets better in the end—being apparent he's truly learning how to heal from his past (or at least, he's already been making progress since the first film and made a big improvement by the end of the second film), and even before that, he was never someone you would consider as being abusive or unfit to rule and/or be a parent—very clearly being a good if overprotective father and a good king that turned the Pridelands around from the wasteland it became during Scar's rule.
Harsher in Hindsight:
- The crocodiles attacking Kiara and Kovu become a whole lot more serious after an alligator killed a toddler at Walt Disney World. To make things even worse, in an error on the DVD, the scene is labelled "Alligator Attack".
- The scene where Simba stands poised to pass judgement on Kovu, while all the animals assembled taunt and jeer at him resembles Aslan's mockery at the Stone Table before the White Witch executes him in Edmund's place, with the exception that Kovu is not executed and Simba is not a bad guy, though he does come close to being a more morally ambiguous character. Seven years later, Disney would make their own adaptation of Narnia, which would show Aslan's execution in all its horror.
- Nuka's psychotic, Ax-Crazy behavior can be uncomfortable to watch, seeing voice actor Andy Dick's numerous arrests for intoxication and sex abuse in the 2010s.
He Really Can Act:
- Neve Campbell, despite having never done voice acting beforehand, or for a long time afterwards, manages to sound genuinely broken when Simba banishes Kovu. Her later plea to Simba to stop the fighting is also so soft and powerful that it also is widely acknowledged as one of the best parts of the film.
- Matthew Broderick's tone during Kovu's trial is stone cold, especially immediately afterwards, in that it sounds incredibly effective, given that Broderick is mostly known for playing soft-spoken nice people or comical jerks at worst.
- Suzanne Pleshette managed to portray Zira's barely-controlled Tranquil Fury so well that she nearly won an Annie Award for her role. Her singing voice is just as well liked, as the song "My Lullaby" is widely acknowledged as one of the best songs of the sequel.
- Jennifer Lien — perhaps best known as Kes on Star Trek: Voyager — is worth mentioning, as well; she delivers a deliciously sinister performance as adult Vitani. More's the pity, then, that she's not listed in the credits.
- Jim Cummings fills in for Scar again during Simba’s nightmare sequence, and once again kills it despite having even less lines as him this time. Cummings lets out some truly bone-chilling evil cackling as he sounds every bit the monstrous figure from Simba’s nightmare and lifelong trauma Scar is played up to be. His single line, "trust me," packs an incredible amount of malice into it, reminding Simba of how his trust in his uncle led to his life being destroyed. All this goes along with Cummings doing a flawless imitation of Jeremy Irons.
Hilarious in Hindsight:
- Simba's Pride and Mulan came out the same year (1998) and in each there's a moment where Kiara and Mulan are not being listened to, with the Plucky Comic Relief asking if she said something:
  Kiara: Will someone just listen to me?
  Timon: I'm sorry, I wasn't listening. Did you say something, princess?
  Mulan: (to Mushu) No one will listen.
  Mushu: I'm sorry, did you say something?
  Mulan: Mushu!
- Liquid Snake is the one singing about how family is awesome in "We Are One". And like Mulan, both came out in 1998.
- Rafiki and Mufasa arguing about whether or not Kovu and Kiara should be together turned out to be quite prophetic of Internet Shipping wars.
- A group of traitors who leave the main group because they fanatically supported the tyrant's attempt to overthrow the rightful king? That sounds identical to Red and his followers from War for the Planet of the Apes. Both villainous groups get the Remember the New Guy? treatment in their respective films. Simba's refusal to accept Kovu is also similar to Caesar's refusal to initially accept Nova.
- Nathan Lane's character getting called "fatty fat fat!" while sharing a scene with Matthew Broderick. Bonus points for Ernie Sabella appearing in the deleted scenes of the Recursive Adaptation.
- Despite the film's contested status, the story is solid enough that Disney would later have Kiara's brother Kion go through the exact same conflict as Kovu — from the fear of turning into Scar to getting a scar in the same place — in the third season of the midquel animated series. Apparently, despite being a Disney sequel, the plot was popular enough to use twice!
- So a Disney villain has a successor (who would have been his biological child except for a last minute change), who angsts over his evil legacy and wonders if it's even his choice to change, who gets a chance to come out of exile to live in the heroes' utopian land. A few years later, Disney decided, "Hey, let's do that for all our villains!"
- Kovu is a fundamentally good-hearted person who was raised by an abusive parent to be a merciless killer, and forced to suppress his true self, before ultimately cutting his ties to his family's sinister legacy and forging a new path for himself with the help of his initial enemy, and said abusive parent giving him a scar over his left eye is a major plot point. A little over six years later, we see this same character arc played out by Fire Lord Zuko.
- Simba having flashbacks and thinking he keeps seeing Scar's likeness in Kovu? Let's just be thankful Kovu is an actual lion and not a nobody or heartless masquerading as a lion. Really, the entire second Pride Lands arc of Kingdom Hearts II is just Simba's side of the plot without Kiara.
- This isn't the last time Jason Mardsen would voice a subordinate of a villain voiced by Suzanne Pleshette, only to pull a Heel–Face Turn part way through.
Ho Yay:
- All of the "Upendi" animals end up pairing off into couples towards the end of the song, including two female ostriches and two male okapis. This could be Animal Gender-Bender at play, but earlier in the movie we see a female brown ostrich alongside a male black one and okapis both with and without ossicones.
- Fans have taken note of how Simba, who has taken a liking to Kovu at that point, approached with a rather odd look that without context would look like he's flirting.
  Kovu: Kiara, I need to talk to you...
  Simba: Kiara, I don't want you talking to him.
  Beat
  Simba: I want to talk to him. *smiles and winks*
  (Kiara is smiling while Kovu is more confused)
Informed Wrongness: Simba gets this a lot in this movie.
- The film clearly portrays him as a jerk for not trusting Kovu right off the bat despite rescuing Kiara. Yet, Kovu is explicitly there to falsely game the Pridelanders' trust only so that he can kill Simba and put his sadistic mother back in power. That, and knowing Kovu to be an Outsider, he has every right to be suspicious of anyone with a relationship to Zira, who explicitly follows Simba's evil uncle and wanted to kill Simba.
- Simba's prejudice against the Outsiders is treated as wrong and borderline racist by the movie; except for the fact that he has every reason to hate them. They are more or less a borderline evil cult/group who were followers of Scar, who was a sociopathic tyrant who murdered his own brother and attempted to kill his nephew multiple times, then oppressed the Pridelands. Zira, the Outsiders' leader, is a sadistic fanatic and an abusive parent who very clearly wants Simba and his family dead as well, so the Outsiders have no moral argument whatsoever. The racist undertones don't really land either since the Outsiders are not even a species or large group of animals as a whole, but simply a small pride of lions who are more or less evil.
- Simba is portrayed as overprotective of his daughter and yet he hardly goes overboard with his protectiveness. He is fine with her exploring more or less by herself, and even sending someone to watch over her makes sense since Kiara immediately disobeys Simba's order to not go into the Outlands and wanders into danger almost immediately upon doing so; in this case, nearly getting killed by crocodiles. Plus Zira, a crazed fanatic who wants Simba's family dead, lives near the Pridelands and is able to sneak in with ease and in fact does so repeatedly in the film; a good example of this is during the scene where she first confronts Simba and retrieves Kovu. Zira very easily and likely would have killed Kiara in Zira's debut scene had Simba and the others not shown up.
Jerkass Woobie:
- Zira COULD be this, if you believe her Freudian Excuse and pity her enough for it.
- After all Simba went through in the first film, you can't blame him for being so overprotective in Simba's Pride, and in the end, he admits he was wrong.
- Nuka may be a willing participant in Zira's schemes and more than a little Ax-Crazy, but he's also blatantly The Unfavorite and implied to have some kind of chronic illness (possibly brought on by neglect). It's pretty much impossible to not feel at least a little sorry for him, especially after his downright tragic death scene.
Misaimed Fandom: One Neo-Nazi group reportedly rewrote the song "We Are One" — a song about how every species in the Pridelands is part of one great family, which helps establish the films Prejudice Aesop — to promote white supremacy to new recruits in the furry fandom.
Moral Event Horizon: Zira probably crosses this when she threatens to kill her own daughter for refusing to take part in the attack on the Pridelanders. This is even an in-universe example, as all of her followers defect after this.
Narm:
- Kovu somehow managing to sleep through the entirety of "My Lullaby," with his entire pride chanting of his eventual rise as Simba's killer and the new king of the Pridelands, complete with the lionesses leaping about and roaring around him as he rests.
- The "One of Us" song sequence is a sad scene with Narm Charm, but the Hungarian dub managed to make it more ridiculous by the repeated unironic use of the word "galád" - which is an Inherently Funny Word meaning "wicked". It sucks out any seriousness of a scene that was meant to be dramatic.
- Simba telling Kiara to stay on the path he "marked". He likely means a path where he left scratch marks, but anyone with their head in the gutter is going to think he means a path that he urinated on (as some real animals do when marking their territory).
- Zira's death in the finished film, due to how awkwardly edited it is from the original, deleted suicide version. Zira's voice screaming in terror is unconvincingly dubbed over the unchanged footage of her grinning triumphantly as she falls from the cliff.
Narm Charm:
- Timon's mocking Lampshade Hanging of some of the other Narm-y aspects of the movie can make things more tolerable. Even he knows the Rocky Roll Call has been dug into the ground.
- "One of Us" shows a bunch of animals like gazelles, zebras and elephants shunning a lion and booing him out of their lands, complete with Large Ham wailing notes. It sounds (and is, for some) silly, yet it works.
  - During the song, Kovu passes through a river and briefly looks down at it and sees Scar looking back at him. Heavy-handed symbolism? Yes. But within the context of the scene, and given that Kovu just got an identical slash over his eye like Scar, and now looks more like him than ever, it's still gut-wrenching.
- In the climax, Kiara asks Simba "What differences do you see?" between the Outsiders and their own pride, despite the differences being very clear due to the Outsiders all looking much more Obviously Evil than the Pridelanders. This doesn't make it any less a touching moment, and while it's subtle, Vitani and the other Outsiders do take on softer features once Kiara gives this epiphany.
Never Live It Down: Simba is widely mocked for coming across as an outright Jerkass to Kovu, being a borderline smothering parent to Kiara, and for being incredibly racist towards the Outsiders. In all three instances, he is portrayed as being in the wrong, but not entirely without reason. Kovu looks like Scar, which given that Simba is heavily implied to have post traumatic stress disorder, merely brings all that trauma back, so his strictness with him is likely due to all that trauma coming back to him, especially given that he has a nightmare about Scar right after Kovu joins his pride. Given that Kiara nearly got killed in a fire, and all the horrors Simba went through as a cub, him wanting to be certain of her safety is very understandable. And the Outsiders really don't like Simba either, only dropping the hatchet at the end of the film.
Older Than They Think: The song "He Lives In You" originated from the album Rhythm of the Pride Lands, which was released in 1995, and was also used in the stage musical.
One-Scene Wonder: The animals who do most of the singing in “One of Us” - particularly the zebra and the deep-voiced hippo - are incredibly memorable, with “Deception, disgrace” burned into many people’s memories.
Retroactive Recognition
- In the Latin American Spanish dub, this was one of the earliest roles Alondra Hidalgo did as young Kiara before her Star-Making Role as Hinata Hyuga.
- The same goes in the Japanese dub for both Risa Shimizu and Mayumi Asano for both young and adult Vitani respectively.
Ships That Pass in the Night: Kiara/Vitani is a popular Les Yay pairing. However, they don’t interact at all and don’t even meet until Vitani pulls her Heel–Face Turn towards the end. The line “Where’s your pretty daughter, Nala?” most likely inspired this pairing.
Squick: Unlike the first film, whenever Pumbaa cries, if you pay close attention, he also blows snot bubbles.
Strawman Has a Point:
- Simba is portrayed as prejudiced for failing to bury the hatchet with the Outsiders for most of the film, but they don't show any interest in dropping their hatred of him either for most of it (with the exception of Kovu), so it's not really unreasonable for him not to want a group who hate him around him and his family. Not to mention that such a hatred came from unreasonable terms on the Outsiders' end, that is; they hate him because he overthrew his murderous uncle, who: 1. Killed his father, 2. Tried to kill him too and blamed him for his father's death, and 3. Turned out to be a pretty awful king who turned the Pridelands into a wasteland.
- Simba warns Zira that she and her allies know the penalty for returning to the Pride Lands. Zira remarks, "But the child does not!" She's referring to Kovu, and this is true. Whatever Zira did to Simba in the past, Kovu is completely innocent, and thus Simba shouldn't outright reject him just because of his association with her.
- Simba's mistrust of Kovu is also semi-justifiable because the circumstances are extremely suspicious. A fire just happens to break out in the area where your daughter is hunting, and she is saved by the sole male of the enemy pride, who then asks to join your pride? A downright refusal might be a bit much, but still, a reasonable person wouldn't think this is a coincidence. The ambush also makes sense in Simba's mind because he is all alone and led right into it. The audience and Kovu knew that Zira had the wrong idea when she congratulated him, but Simba certainly didn't.
  - And arguably, his past experiences in the first film only made such distrust more reasonable. Case in point, Simba was betrayed in the worst ways by an uncle whom he very clearly admired and trusted. If he couldn't even trust his own family, then how can he easily trust a supposed defector from a faction that openly despises him—whose leader is very explicit in her desire for revenge on him?
  - Kovu originally was sent there to kill Simba, too. He even nearly ambushes him at one point until Kiara intervenes. He changes his mind once he got the full story of what Scar did and falls in love, but Simba would have no way of knowing that. Arguably, they’re both victims of Zira’s mechanisms.
They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character: In order to adapt the feud of Romeo and Juliet, the sequel invents a new group of lions instead of utilizing the first film's established feud with the hyenas, who are instead only given a passing mention as having left the elephant graveyard. Even if an Interspecies Romance was out of the question, having Kovu be a lion adopted by the hyenas would have both made it more understandable for him to be raised as a Tyke Bomb, and given him another parallel to Simba as a lion raised by another species.
They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: It's never made clear why Zira would be so hell-bent on avenging Scar's death, when she clearly must have seen what a horrible king he was. For that matter, her early history isn't even mentioned once.
Took the Bad Film Seriously: "Bad" is questionable, though it is clearly a much lower-scale project than the first film with a not-so-well-defined plot, and yet a lot of it is held together by the cast putting the same level of earnest performance into it. Special notice to Suzanne Pleshette, who puts in such a chilling and hammy performance as Zira that competes with Jeremy Irons' Scar and gives the film an unexpectedly dark and compelling tone.
Viewer Gender Confusion: Some people didn't realize that Vitani was a girl until she was an adult and had no mane.
Vindicated by History: When it was first released, opinions of the film were split down the middle, with many fans disliking the new characters and the imperfect plot. Nowadays, many people are willing to admit that they like the film, with the characters being compelling, the plot addressing some complex issues, and several interesting expansions being made to the lore of the original, even if not as good as the first; in general, fans consider Simba's Pride one of the better Disney direct-to-video-sequels.
What Do You Mean, It's for Kids?: While many people believe the film is not as dark as the original, due to lacking the emotional scenes and genuine nightmares of the original, it is actually quite a fair bit dark; Though not quite to a large extent, the original is still darker in execution if not plot, displaying a more avid level of maturity in its themes, but if nothing else, it's still fairly darker than other Disney movies. Grey-and-Gray Morality is portrayed very clearly, the protagonist of the prior film really comes close to becoming an antagonist—or at least is more morally ambiguous than outright heroic, and is very heavily implied to suffer from PTSD, which made him very overprotective, Zira's Villain Song is an explicit song about turning her son into a killer and conquering an entire kingdom out of petty revenge (though it is on its own quite reminiscent of Be Prepared, which is about someone planning to assassinate his brother and nephew for the throne), the relationship between Zira and Nuka is obviously an abusive one, which, while used for comedy, is depicted as having horrific consequences, and Kiara and Kovu's romance is blocked due to explicit prejudice and discrimination, along with Nuka and Zira dying in fairly horrific ways, the former doing so onscreen (Mufasa and Scar anyone? The former was trampled onscreen and we get to see his corpse for a couple minutes, while the latter was eaten alive by his former lackeys). Overall, while not darker than the first, it does display similarly mature and darker themes, especially in comparison to other Disney films.
The Woobie: Kovu is forced to participate in an assassination plot he wants no part of, he only wants to be with Kiara, wants to show he is not Scar and is mistrusted by Simba because of his status as an Outsider and as Scar's supposed heir, is betrayed by his mother when she sets him as a fall guy, and loses his brother in said ambush. He later gets scarred by his mom and is banished by Simba for unknowingly participating in his ambush. All Kovu wanted was a friend.
Woolseyism: The Italian version of My Lullaby echoes "Be Prepared" by incorporating the phrase "Sarai il re" into a few points - Scar's song was translated into "Sarò re". ^Translation

YMMV / The Lion King II: Simba's Pride

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