YMMV / Shin Megami Tensei V

• Alternative Character Interpretation: The Nahobino seems most satisfied with the Law route ending. Is this proof that the ending is best for humanity, or is it possible that he's become drunk on his power and is oblivious to the downsides of this approach?
• Anti-Climax Boss:
  • For someone claiming to be the Demon King, Arioch is a bit of a joke. Most of the trouble in his boss fight comes from the two Decarabia he summons since they buff evasion/accuracy and cast Megidola but once those two go down, he's a sitting duck with only one press turn available for him. He's also weak to lighting, which Yurlungur, a demon that can be recruited in the same area he is fought in, has. And one of the Nahobino's signature moves is Ruinous Thunder, a single-target heavy lightning spell that costs 20 mana before potential, so a Magic-oriented Nahobino will absolutely obliterate him.
  • Even before the above example, Surt has a lot of build up for a rather weak payoff. His first scene has him singlehandedly wiping out a big battalion of angels and other Bethel demons. His fire powers are apparently so strong that he naturally has a giant barrier of fire around him that will incinerate anyone who dares walk through it without magical protection (which you have to take a detour to get). And he's easily the biggest boss you've faced up to this point, being about 3-4 stories tall while kneeling. But when you face him, all he has going for him are powerful fire attacks, and decently strong basic attacks. As long as you give yourself fire resistance (or even immunity) and set your team up to not be weak to fire, Surt has no real way of hurting you. And to add insult to injury, in the zone you fight Surt in, you can recruit a Black Frost (if you hadn't already fused one yourself) who not only has ice spells, but also has resistance to fire, making him an easy choice to counter Surt. The only real issue is that if you have physical demons, Surt has a high chance of countering, but it doesn't hurt enough to really be worth worrying about.
  • For what is supposed to be the king of evil that has absorbed the power of God, Lucifer is quite the underwhelming fight. If the player is not on the secret ending route, then it is just a single-phase fight with easily intercepted super moves. And due to the level scaling in the game, it is incredibly easy to pound him into the dirt if the player has even remotely been paying attention to their levels. And then the secret ending version manages to be even worse. While it has three phases, due to the stuff the player had to do to even get here, including beating a level 96 superboss while the Final Boss is 90 which, due to the aforementioned level scaling, makes it even more of a joke.
  • In sidequests, you face Baal and Amon, who were rulers of the world prior to the God of Creation taking over. While moderately challenging for bosses of their level, they're nowhere near as powerful as those who came after them, even Lucifer, who is himself an Anti-Climax Boss.
• Broken Base:
  • Did this game do a good job of portraying Law more favorably, or not? Fans can't decide. Some fans enjoy Dazai's character arc and his divergence from typical Law character tropes, along with Abdiel's nicer side, and see a Law faction that genuinely cares about peace for humanity over mindless subservience. They also believe they bring up some good counterarguments to Koshimizu's plan. Which, given his ending, aren't unfounded. The old Creator's actions are also treated far more ambiguously in V's mythos, with the miracle preserving Tokyo seeming entirely altruistic. Others view Dazai's over-the-top poses, smirks and bouts of Laughing Mad after fully aligning himself with the faction, along with Abdiel's grotesque fallen angel transformation and monstrous Nahobino form(which looks even scarier and more demonic than Tsukuyomi or Nuwa's), as evidence the writers still view the Law alignment as evil. The angels are still brutal in judging Demons or anyone "corrupted" by them, and the ending narration stating "mankind need not think for themselves" implies the faction still believes in The Evils of Free Will. In short, Law is considered redeemed by some, while others view it the same as past games, and other still believe V's Law is good by Law standards, but that's not a high bar.
  • Are Yakumo and Nuwa justified in hating demons? Due to the game's minimalistic storytelling, we don't often see humanity under direct attack by demons in Tokyo outside of Lahmu's invasion, but it's still said to happen frequently. Demons in Da'at will attack any human who wanders in, as seen by random encounters, but these encounters can also be reasoned with and become the player's allies. The existence of the Fairy Forest shows there are demons who work entirely for the benefit of humans in Da'at, but are they a minority? There's also the details of the True Neutral ending listed below. Is creating a world for humanity alone that erases demons by helping Fion, Amanozako and Khonsu a betrayal of them, or in line with their wishes for humanity? And above all that, is this debate an Intended Audience Reaction, or a case of Unintentionally Sympathetic or Unintentionally Unsympathetic?
• Complacent Gaming Syndrome:
  • Thanks to how physical skills work, magic focused Nahobino tend to be common on account of the game making physical skills require MP to be used rather than HP.
  • For those who use a physical Nahobino instead, expect them to run Murakumo (Strength-based Almighty attack that inflicts extra damage on a crit) with Murderous Glee (greatly increases crit rate).
  • All Nahobino builds tend to run Enduring Soul in the endgame, for an extra safety net against Game Overs as a result of We Cannot Go On Without You.
  • The most commonly used Magatsuhi Skill is Omagatoki: Critical due to the increased flexibility with your Press Turns you enjoy when every hit you land is a Critical Hit. It also helps that it's always available so it's usable with any team composition. Combine this with the aforementioned Murakumo for lulz rivaled by the sheer amount of damage inflicted.
• Contested Sequel: The game has proven to be a rather divisive entry amongst the fandom. While the battle system has seen almost universal praise, it's often criticized for its incredibly sparse story, uninteresting cast, as well as elements of the exploration like the lack of dungeons, and poor visual variety.
• Demonic Spiders:
  • Shiki-Ouji have a decent health pool, resist Physical, and use both Light and Dark spells, meaning any Demon weak to them risks a One-Hit Kill. What's worse is how hard they are to avoid on the field: they move by turning themselves into small talismans before reforming, making it hard to tell exactly where their (large) hitbox is going to be at any given moment, and they can initiate a battle via a ranged attack. Worse still is they have a unique conversation with Inugami (which a player is likely to have when they're first encountered) that results in them refusing to join, confounding attempts at negotiating.
  • Macabre in the 3rd area of Da'at appear out of nowhere on the field, in groups of up to three, and quickly rush you. They're a nasty surprise if you're trying to avoid encounters, and if they get the first strike they'll open with Critical Wave and likely get an extra Press Turn.
  • Loup-Garou's are probably the first opponent you'll fight in Taito, and they give you a run for their money. High agility, good critical rates, strong physical AOE attacks and a Severe-level unique lightning spell give them the ability to easily wipe out your team. And their spawning grounds are right behind the first Leyline of the area, making them very easy to run into first.
  • Yamata-No-Orochi is a fairly mediocre physical-oriented demon for the part of the game where they can be fused, but their world counterpart sits at a whopping level 72 when you first meet them. Where do you meet them, you ask? Why, right outside Odin's boss fight in Taito, surrounded by enemies in the 50-60 range. The sheer difference in levels between you and them at this point means that Orochi will kill you in a single hit if they touch you. And if they don't kill you, then they'll crit and have another chance to blow you up. And the worst part? You can fight up to three at the same time! Needless to say, they're a huge threat throughout almost all of Taito.
  • The Chi You that roam the hallways of the Temple of Eternity can also be a headache. Obviously, the main point of these enemies is to avoid them rather than fight them, as the game gives you several opportunities to get past them. But if you find yourself fighting one for one reason or another, you'll find they're at a higher level than most other enemies at 87 (putting them on the same level as the Alignment bosses in the Empyrean in terms of level), with the second highest in the Temple being Mada at 83, making them especially punishing for first-time players. The Chi You are even stronger than the boss, Metatron. Not only that, they're damage sponges that shrug off anything that isn't Fire or Electric, even being resistant to Almighty. And with their high Strength stat, they can hit hard to boot. Even worse, it has a lot of health, being about 2,000 HP when every other enemy in the same dungeon has anywhere from 400 to 500 HP.
• Difficulty Spike: The first three areas of Da'at are pretty forgiving with enemy level scaling, and clearly mark out local Beef Gates. The final area, Taito, is first accessed around level 55 and can potentially pit you against enemies that are way out of your league, such as a level 72 Yamata-no-Orochi! When you account for the level scaling modifiers in combat, you'll have to stop and grind a bit (or pick your fights very carefully) before making meaningful headway. It doesn't help that the bosses are also a lot higher in level than what you are expected from when you first arrive there- Zeus, Vasuki and Odin are all 72, while Abdiel, the previous storyline boss, is only 58.
• Disappointing Last Level: The final few areas of the game are lacking in life as opposed to the rest of Da'at. The Temple of Eternity has several high-level demons but uses them more as obstacles to be avoided rather than fought through, some really annoying time-stop puzzles, and has a lot of conspicuously empty dead ends as well as visually just being a palett swap of an earlier dungeon. The Empyrean is almost devoid of random encounters barring the occasional miniboss fight and sidequest bosses. Admittedly, there are in-universe justifications for the lack of random encounters to be found there, but it makes the final stretch of the game less exciting.
• Do Not Do This Cool Thing: A big part of why the hidden neutral ending gets viewed as an Esoteric Happy Ending. According to Yakumo and Nuwa, we're supposed to see the existence of gods and demons as a bad thing for humanity. The problem is the story's main human characters are either underdeveloped or flat, while the demons get hilarious negotiation dialogue, the lion's share of the focus in the story and sidequests, and are the ones fighting alongside you in battle. Because of this, many players feel the "Chaos" ending, in which gods and demons co-exist with humans, feels more like a Neutral ending, with Yakumo and Nuwa's feeling more like Chaos.
• Ensemble Dark Horse:
  • Out of the new demons, Idun is very popular, for her very cute appearance, idol-like mannerisms, and her incredible gameplay prowess as well.
  • The Manananggal also receives a good amount of attention, thanks to being the first Filipino representation of demons in the franchise, her genuinely disturbing lore, and her equally sexy and unnerving design.
  • Fionn mac Cumhaill only appears three times, one of which being a sidequest, despite his prominence in the marketing. He still manages to be popular with fans due to his design, fun boss fight, and being voiced by Chris Hackney. He's especially popular with Irish MegaTen fans, due to how mythologically accurate he is (down to the pronunciation of his name).
• Epileptic Trees:
  • With the reveal of the Qadištu, many began to theorise on the identities of the members aside from Lilith. The main two that are popular are that they are Eisheth Zenunim, Na'amah, and Agrat bat Mahlat, known as the wives of Samael, or that they are meant as reflections of Bethel, theorising that the blond demon is Hela to oppose Odin, the witch is Hecate to oppose Zeus, and Lilith to oppose Abdiel. A later press release would confirm that the names of the other three would align with the popular speculations.
  • After Yoko and Lilith's reveal, many fans began speculating that the two are related in some way, with the popular theory being that the former is the latter's Knowledge, helped that Yoko's name is similar to "Yuriko," Lilith human identity in the first game.
  • From the moment the Nahobino's new form was revealed, fans immediately drew connections between it and Tsukuyomi's Nahobino form, giving rise to theories that this form is brought on when the protagonist fuses with Koshimizu rather than Aogami, with the latter potentially being out of commission.
  • With Dagda getting a new japanese voice actor and behaving similarly yet less aggressively than his Apocalypse counterpart, there was speculation that this incarnation of Dagda is the new Dagda created by Danu in the Bonds route. This was further supported by Dagda and Danu sharing a magatsuhi skill, as the original Dagda was nothing but hostile towards his mother while the new one was far more cooperative.
• Esoteric Happy Ending: Some players feel the hidden fourth ending falls under this, as the steps required to unlock it clash heavily with its final result. It creates a world "for humanity alone", where Gods and Demons are forever separated from humans. The problem is in order to unlock this ending you need to complete multiple sidequests that have you befriending Gods and Demons and helping them with their problems. Some feel a sense of betrayal in doing all those good deeds for them only to create a world they aren't allowed to be part of. To other players, it also runs contrary to the attachment they formed to their recruited Demons, something this game is good at encouraging through negotiation dialogue and game mechanics. On the other hand, there are fans who not only agree with this interpretation but like it, as it prevents one ending being obviously better than the others as well as the notion that Nahobino's lonely distant gaze in the last shot nudges towards him pondering if this idea was any good to provide nuance.
• Estrogen Brigade: After the E3 2021 trailer revealed the protagonist's Nahobino form with dashing blue hair, he gained a ton of fan girls thanks to his beautiful looks with a number of them drawing fan art of him, even art accounts that previously never dabbled in SMT art.
• Fandom Rivalry: With Pokémon. This game coming out on the Nintendo Switch in the same month as the Pokémon Diamond and Pearl remakes and in the lead-up to Pokémon Legends: Arceus has led to a lot of disgruntled fans latching on to SMTV as what a big Mons JRPG on Switch should look like.
• Fan Nickname:
  • With the lack of an official canon name for the protagonist before his transformation, people have taken to calling him "Naobi" (sometimes "Naobi Hino"), or V-Kun.
  • Jetstream Sam for Aogami, due to the latter greatly resembling the former.
  • "Persona V Heartless" or "Persona V Without the Heart" have become popular nicknames for the game as a result of an IGN review having this title and criticizing the game for being different to Persona 5.
• Game-Breaker: Can be found here.
• Goddamned Bats:
  • Flying enemies. They aren't hard at all but their ability to fly around and potentially strike at you from outside your ability to really plan for, thus making it more likely they will start the fight on their turn, means it frustrating to try and deal with them. It doesn't help that most flying enemies tend to have high Agility, so they can often go first anyway. Also, while most enemies will turn tail and run if you outrank them by at least 5 levels, flying enemies will always pursue you on sight even if outmatched, which is irritating when you're just passing through. In particular, Anzu's from the third area are in large groups and very often circle above you in ways that are hard to avoid.
  • Nebiros aren't particularly dangerous enemies if you're properly leveled, but they're a pain in the ass if you have to move around them. The reason is that they summon a small pack of angry Decarabia before they turn and bail, so you have to deal with that nuisance while going after them. They're level 67 while the Decarabia are in the 50s, which is a pain in the ass all its own.
• Goddamned Boss:
  • Thoth, an Abscess guardian in North Shinagawa, uses Matarunda to debuff your entire party's attack and Diarama to heal himself for most of his health. His Megido is damaging, but it's less of a problem than him dragging out the fight long enough for you to exhaust your SP and items.
  • The boss battle in "The Compassionate Queen" quest on the Law route has you fighting against Maria. On one hand, she only has one Press Turn and one skill she can use. On the other hand, one of said skills is Diarahan, which is guaranteed to heal her to max HP whenever she uses it. The battle against her is less of a battle than a drawn-out test to see if you can kill her in one given turn, generally requiring multiple rounds of buffing your party and debuffing her until you are sure that you can deal enough damage to her. If you can do so, then its probably the single easiest fight in the entire game, but if you can't, it becomes practically unwinnable.
  • Vasuki isn't as tough to fight as Odin or Zeus, who are both brawlers who can last a good while, but what makes his fight frustrating is a combination of having three turns (Odin and Zeus only have two), and his debuff focused move set. He loves to spam charm, poison, and other debuffing skills, making the fight a slog as you have to constantly remove debuffs. He only has ice and weak physical skills, but between debuffing you and slowly killing you, he's arguably the hardest of the three not because of a tough moveset, but just annoying skills.
• Heartwarming Moments:
  • Their conversation together implies that the same Decarabia and Forneus from Nocturne are somehow alive and reunited!
  • Aogami is nothing but kind and helpful to the protagonist, unlike Dagda from the previous game, and never once betrays him. For a franchise like SMT, that's shocking.
  • The special conversation between Loup-garou and Manananggal ends with Manananggal encouraging Loup-garou to embrace beauty within his cursed form rather than suffer from it. It's a surprisingly touching moment from an unlikely interaction.
  • If you let Khonsu live and finish his questline, Miyazu probably has the happiest ending out of all of the cast. Having spent most of the game in the Fairy Village tending to those wounded in Lahmu's attack, she decides to become a nurse when she grows up, even knowing the future is uncertain, having found purpose in helping others.
  • In the base version of V, Hydra and Cerberus had a special conversation in which the brothers reunite only for Hydra to lament that it has been so long since he's seen his other siblings, Orthus and Chimera, that he's almost forgot them, with Cerberus cheering him up by saying they'll meet again soon. Come Vengeance and it's shown that all four siblings can come together in a special attack.
• Hilarious in Hindsight:
  • The English voice actress for Tao Isonokami is done by Jeannie Tirado, who a few years earlier did the voice for female Byleth in Fire Emblem: Three Houses, with both characters being a reincarnation of a Goddess, or at least saint in the case of Tao as Panagia is another name for Virgin Mary, but nonetheless both receive a transformation into a Goddess form halfway through the game.
  • "Attack and dethrone God" has been a meme amongst the JRPG community given their tendency to use deities as final bosses, with Megaten games especially being associated with it given the game's emphasis on the supernatural. Par for the course, many proclaimed their intent to fight God once more in the build up to the release of V only for it to be revealed that Lucifer literally attacked and dethroned God already in the game's backstory. All but one of the endings involve the protagonist taking the throne and ascending to the role of Top God themselves.
  • A fanfic crossover of Persona 5 and Code Vein titled Akane no Mai shows the climax of Book I featuring Hifumi temporarily being killed, and was brought back in gaining the ability in becoming a goddess. A year later, the game shows Tao being killed, and was then revive as a goddess herself. The Nahobino fusions are loosely compared to the crossover's Persona's Ascendancy (Persona wielders fusing with their Personas), the ruins of the real Tokyo being like Code Vein's setting in an alternate future (and both works are stealth sequels to Nocturne and Persona 5's alternate ending (when Ren made the deal with Yaldabaoth), alongside Lucifer being like the main antagonist of Book I. The scene where Fionn duels with the Nahobino before Tao stops the fight is compared to the male Code Vein protagonist (named Sion, that the pronunciations feel similar to Fionn's, and both are foreign warriors) fighting the Phantom Thieves before Hifumi stops the fight in Chapter IV of Book I.
• Ho Yay: Aogami is very loyal to the Protagonist, and the number of times Aogami promises to protect the other can be counted on two hands. He even remarks, after the battle with The Pale Rider in 'The Return of the True Demon' DLC, that he considers himself lucky to have met the Protagonist.
• I Knew It!:
  • When the demon in the red dress was first shown off before the reveal of her name, there were countless speculations as to who she could be. When videos showed her in combat, creating mud dolls to attack the Nahobino and his party, the Chinese design of her dress and this immediately led many to believe her to be Nuwa, who in Chinese mythology, created humans from mud. Sure enough, come the second Character Introductions trailer, her name was revealed to be Nuwa.
  • Many fans correctly predicted Aogami's true identity as Susano-o.
  • Around 2023, fans predicted that a "complete" edition of V that would add new content would release soon and on other platforms. Sure enough, Shin Megami Tensei V Vengeance would be announced during a Nintendo Direct on all platforms.
• It's the Same, Now It Sucks!:
  • Some players are rather disappointed that Cleopatra and Mephisto are relegated to being DLC-exclusive demons once again, and would have preferred them to be added into the base game from the start, especially since they're nowhere near as broken like they were in IV: Apocalypse.
  • To some players, the game's story and setting don't really do anything to set itself apart from the rest of the series with it sticking very close to series staples, especially Nocturne, feeling like it is just a retread of past ideas rather than something that tries to innovate.
  • Of the endings, Law once again involves brainwashing humanity and removing free will (maybe), despite only one angel believing in this ideology in this game, and the series beginning to move away from the extreme side of Law in Strange Journey Redux and the Devil Survivor games. There is a Hope Spot however in that the Nahobino is implied to be more gentle than YHVH and we don't get a glimpse to see if his and the reborn YHVH will simply eradicate humanity's worse impulses like in a lighter law ending or indeed go into full control, given that his miracle is said to be an echo of the one YHVH enacted in the backstory where humanity clearly wasn't mindlessly worshipping 24/7. Regardless, the narration at least proclaims it to be the ending where the Nahobino is the happiest with the outcome, and his restoration of those that were lost implies he brings back his dead allies, a contrast to a genocide enacting law route. However, this trope still applies as fans wished for more closure with the Law, Neutral and Chaos endings that otherwise look identical and fade to black without seeing what truly happens unlike making a world for humanity alone.
• LGBT Fanbase: In addition to an Estrogen Brigade of straight women, the protagonist’s Nahobino form has a massive following among transgender and non-binary fans, many of whom are jealous of his androgynous good looks. It helps that his English voice actor, Casey Mongillo, is also non-binary.
• Magnificent Bastard: Lucifer defeated the Creator 18 years ago and ascended to a new form after forcing God to use his last forces to create a false Tokyo. Then, Lucifer boasts of his victory to the surviving angels and quietly watches as the demons override the efforts of Bethel and attack humans. In his new form, Lucifer discovers the reality of the Mandala Cycle and decides to break it to reach complete freedom. Allowing the existence of new Nahobinos and causing Bethel to fracture when they discover the truth, Lucifer also pushes the loyalist angel Abdiel into becoming a Fallen Angel to participate in the Divine Conflict. When the protagonist finally challenges Lucifer to become the new Supreme God, Lucifer congratulates him regardless of his choice and dies saying that the new world would surely be free.
• Memetic Badass: In the lead up to Vengeance, fans quickly realized that Hare of Inaba's resistances (resists everything but physical damage and blocks light and dark) were better than the endgame demon Metatron, which quickly spiraled into joke of the Hare being considered stronger than the voice of God.
• Memetic Mutation:
  • The protagonist's haircut, which was mocked upon its reveal for looking like the protagonist had done a bad job cutting his own hair. Though some pointed out that it was oddly topical, since the reveal was made during the COVID-19 Pandemic, where many individuals self-quarantined for months and had to cut their own hair. This became a bit ironic in hindsight after the reveal that, post-transformation, the protagonist's hair grows into flowing locks of borderline Rapunzel hair that has even been described by members of Nintendo Treehouse as gorgeous.
  • Quite a few fans joke that the protagonist in the son of Flynn and Isabeau from Shin Megami Tensei IV since his hair seemingly combines elements from the two.
  • I lived bitch^ExplanationThanks to a long delay in news regarding the game, some people joked that the game would become Vaporware. Come the Nintendo Direct Mini: Partner Showcase in July 2020, and the game would finally have an update alongside an HD remaster for Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne, leading to memes that the game was brought back from the dead.
  • The God you worship is dead.^ExplanationThe first line spoken in the July 2020 announcement trailer, it was used as a reply to those who were upset about the Nintendo Direct Mini the announcement trailer was in becoming dominated by news of the Nocturne remaster and this.
  • In general, the protagonist's Nahobino form and resulting gender confusion became a massive meme after it was revealed in the E3 trailer, helping further bring mainline SMT attention into the gaming mainstream even after Nocturne HD Remaster rekindled western interest.
  • After Kumbhanda's video was released, the comments section started getting Digital Devil Saga jokes due to his role in Digital Devil Saga 2.
  • Muito Real^ExplanationWhen a teaser for Mothman's Daily Demon Showcase video was released, @SMTPortugal tweeted the image of Mothman's silhouette with the line "MUITO REAL" (Portuguese for "very real"). The quote has since then been associated to Mothman in a similar way to Jack Frost's signature Verbal Tic.
  • "Persona 5 without the heart." ^Explaination A quote from the IGN review of the game, which was very quickly picked up and relentlessly mocked by fans due to it comparing two completely different games, even putting it at a similar level of the infamously memetic '7.8 Too Much Water' review by IGN.
  • "Young man" ^Explaination Aogami refers to the protagonist as "young man" a lot throughout the story. Many fans consider it one of his charm points, and often reference the Village People song alongside it, most often saying "Young man, there's no need to feel down". Other times it gets used in a "Would you kindly" manner to signify Aogami telling the player what to do.
  • Hair Physics^ExplainationOne of the things that most stood out about the game was the Nahobino's long hair having physics to it. It turned out that the hair physics were actually taken from what was essentially a boob physics, which when fans learned, quickly had them label it as Hair Physics.
  • So the game is finally out of Early Access.^ExplainationWith the announcement of all the new content that Vengeance adds to the game and the somewhat Obvious Beta nature of the original have lead people to refer to the original version as a glorified Early Access release and that the game will finally release as a complete experience.
• Mis-blamed: During the long drought of news regarding the development of SMTV many fans accused Persona 5 and its success causing Atlus to focus more on milking it with spin-offs and sequels as opposed to starting development of the former. This is despite the fact that there are two separate internal teams developing both Megami Tensei and Persona games respectively and that most of V's long development is due to the developers familiarizing themselves with Unreal Engine 4 for the first time.
• Narm: The whole cutscene of Ichiro steeling his conviction for the Law faction in Da'at Taito is somewhat hard to take seriously considering the fact it includes every cliché of a Face–Heel Turn and/or Sanity Slippage complete with him tossing his "Sucker" hat, slicking his hair back and having a complete 180 in personality along with Evil Laugh. The protagonist watching this unfold and moving on without a comment (although since he's on the ground and Dazai is on the top of a building several stories above him means he may not have heard it) only makes it funnier. Not helping the matter is that the cutscene plays automatically when the player walks through an ordinary area that doesn't look any different from the other parts of Taito, making it come literally out of nowhere if they were unable to see him on top of the building.
• Older Than They Think:
  • This isn't the first mainline game to feature single- and multi-target buff and debuff spells. This was previously seen in Shin Megami Tensei IMAGINE. Shin Megami Tensei NINE also features this, but handles it in a way completely unlike any other game in the series.
  • This is not the first mainline game, which buffs the Hama (Light) and Mudo (Dark) spells into dealing damage with the insta-kill being potentially triggered when hitting a target weak to them. This was done before in the previous mainline game, Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse.
  • This isn't the first mainline game to feature Yoshitsune's Signature Move Hassou Tobi. He also had the skill in Shin Megami Tensei NINE and Shin Megami Tensei IMAGINE, both of which predate its appearances in the Persona series.
  • This is not the first time an SMT game has used a level-scaling system as part of its damage formula. Atlus has been using such systems at least since Nocturne, although the implementation here is far more punishing than past games (even a difference of just five to ten levels can have a pretty noticeable impact on boss fights). V's more open-ended approach to level design also makes it much easier to wander into high-level areas without warning, making it more noticeable than before (especially if you're trying to rush through the game without exploring and doing side-quests, which can down on the need to grind). The fact that you'll need to do at least a bit of grinding to beat Shiva (and obtain the true ending) doesn't help.
• Play the Game, Skip the Story: This seems to be the most common critique of the game. People have praised the gameplay, visuals, audio and quality of life aspects as being some of the best in the series, but have noticed that the story is surprisingly bare, with many characters and ideas getting little focus.
• Scrappy Mechanic:
  • The level scaling is something that has really earned the ire of fans. In any battle, if there is a significant difference in level then the game will apply hidden modifiers to cause the higher leveled party to deal way more damage while the other deals less. Not only that, but you have to contend with Anti-Grinding modifiers as well, so by the time you can defeat a mob on roughly equal footing they're no longer giving out worthwhile experience. This creates plenty of situations of not only forced grinding, but also of making late game bosses complete jokes if the player has engaged with the side content. This ends up having the effect of levels being of more importance than party composition. While this is not the first game to use a system like this, V's version is far more aggressive than ever done in the series past. ^note In past games with level scaling you usually would need upwards of a 20 level difference to have a noticeable effect, and low level runs are still very doable. In V, a difference of just five can have a gamebreaking or debilitating effect depending on if you are on the receiving end or not.
  • Related to the leveling scaling is the way demons on the overworld react to you. Enemies will try to attack you to get the edge in a fight, but once you eclipse them by about five levels, enemies will instead run away. However, some enemies, primarily all flying enemies, and certain enemies like Basilisk, Macabres, and Naga Raja, will always make a bee-line towards you even after you are higher level then them. These enemies are often hard to avoid due to their location, size, and how they track you, and it makes backtracking tedious because you have to actively avoid them, or else they may get the first turn in battle even if you can almost one-shot them. Anzu and Fafnir's in particular are tedious to avoid because of this.
  • The special conversations that your demons can have with enemy demons. On one hand, it's a neat idea and breathes some life into related demons. On the other hand, they override the usual conversation you'd have, and any outcome of that conversation denies you a chance to recruit the demon you're interested in.
• Suspiciously Similar Song:
  • Battle -origin- has a part that sounds like the opening of the Megadeth song Hangar 18.
  • Battle -Abdiel- borrows heavily from Dream Theater's A Change of Seasons.
• That One Attack:
  • Impaler's Animus raises the damage of the next attack, physical or magical, and lets it pierce resistances. Unlike some earlier SMT games not even Repel will stop piercing attacks, meaning that if a boss uses this someone is taking damage. Most of the stronger lategame bosses have this, and love to use it before party-hitting attacks. Shiva in particular will use it when preparing to use his Magatsuhi phase, which almost guarantees a near party wipe.
  • Shiva's Tandava is a devastating party-wide Almighty attack that reduces everyone's defense to the minimum. If he hits you with that, he can easily force you onto the defensive.
  • Khonsu Ra's Heliopolis Dawn. It's a party wide Severe Fire skill that ignores resistances, and since he's a magic focused boss, it naturally hits hard. What makes the skill so annoying is that, unlike other bosses, who usually telegraph their moves by channeling their Magatsuhi, he instead spends one of his turns "preparing" it, then fires it on his second turn, giving you no time to prepare or guard against it. He also uses it just after using Mesektet's Path, a unique skill that allows him to counter any attack by inflicting weak Almighty damage and Shroud, which eats away at your MP, which would naturally make most players avoid attacking. The issue is that Shroud reduces the damage from Heliopolis Dawn, which is the intended way to handle it, and yet nothing in the game hints at this being possible, to the point numerous guides don't mention it. It means that you have to choose between getting Shroud and losing MP (and wasting a turn attacking with demons that ought to be healing or supporting) or taking the full damage of Heliopolis Dawn, and then having to spend a turn restoring your parties HP.
  • The Demi-Fiend in the Return of the True Demon DLC has two moves that are orders of magnitude worse than any other attacks in the rest of the game.
    • The first is Gaea Rage, a physical move that never misses and hits your entire party for tens of thousands of damage, wiping out anyone you can field even at max level. The only saving grace is that the Demi Fiend will only use this move if you use a reflector skill or let him use a certain number of turns without killing one of his demons.
    • The second is Chaotic Will, which is much worse. Chaotic Will has a chance to instantly kill, and even if it misses, it cuts your upcoming turns in half for a brutal hangover. Unlike Gaea Rage, the Demi Fiend will use Chaotic Will at set intervals of his HP. There is no way to gain complete immunity from the skill, although the Nahobino can potentially survive it twice with the Enduring Soul skill and the Whittled Goat item. It is possible to temporarily seal Demi-Fiend so that he can't use the spell, but that requires having a good sense of timing to seal him and trigger the spell before the seal wears off.
• That One Level:
  • Chiyoda is not exactly remembered fondly amongst many players for a myriad of reasons:
    • The cramped, confusing layout of the area making it incredibly frustrating to get around. Even better for anyone who's hunting for Miman in this mess.
    • The introduction of the Macabre enemies, who just love spawning in out of thin air and attacking instantly - despite how much more powerful you might be.
    • The Anzu enemies, which combine Goddamned Bats and Suicidal Overconfidence into truly ridiculous realms of annoyance, as they combine trying to attack you (much like Macabre, they'll still do it despite being hopelessly outmatched) with flying in erratic patterns to make them very tough to avoid, while also attacking in packs. If you find one Anzu, chances are four or more are nearby too - and they'll all be swooping at you once one notices you, almost certainly forcing a waste of time in battle. Oh, and they also screech to alert you of their presence, so enjoy getting that sound out of your brain.
    • When you finally get through the area, you get to go back and do it all over again to disable Ishtar's protective towers. Even though you now have the Leyline system to help get around, it's still a tremendous pain, and you have the aforementioned Macabre and Anzu spawns to deal with throughout the whole process.
  • The Temple of Eternity. Acting as essentially the final dungeon, it is widely disliked for being annoying to navigate through. Many enemies are well above your expected level of around 74, some being as high as around 85, and enemies are positioned in ways that require you to have to fight them to move past, meaning you slowly will weaken as your resources run low, even with each floor having a save point. The main gimmick is that some doors freeze time, meaning you can't fight enemies, open doors, or chests, requiring you to find another door to resume the flow of time. Pathways are filled with many dead ends and the environment is bland and not very unique. Despite being half as long in terms of floors as the other dungeon, the Demon King's Castle, it feels longer due to how tedious it is to navigate through.
• They Changed It, Now It Sucks!: Some fans have mixed feelings on buffs no longer targeting the whole party by default (requiring higher-tier "Ma" versions for this effect, like the Persona games), and that buffs are now on a timer instead of being permanent until dispelled. On the one hand, it's easier to max out buffs on your party and debuffs on the enemy, and it's less punishing if the enemy dispels either. On the other hand, refreshing your buffs/debuffs every few turns can be taxing on your SP, especially if you're trying to buff your entire party with only single-target buffs.
• They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character:
  • Despite trailers portraying her as a major character, Miyazu disappears from the main plot after the whole affair with Lahmu. This disappoints a lot of fans who were looking forward to seeing her relationship with Yuzuru and the cast when shit starts to hit the fan, especially when an endgame questline reveals she has Khonsu's Knowledge.
  • Some fans feel this is the case with Yuzuru. Between him, the protagonist, and Dazai, he receives very little focus and remains a Static Character while Dazai goes through some major Character Development. His relationship with his sister Miyazu also isn't touched on very much, which disappoints many seeing as how a lategame sidequest involves Miyazu's relationship with Khonsu and the reveal that she is slowly dying.
  • Abdiel becoming a fallen angel, and thus gaining a new demonic form symbolizes how far this character is willing to go in pursuit of their goals. Regardless of whether you side with or against them, you never get to see them fight in this form, as the next time you encounter them, they either transform into their Nahobino form, or are instantly killed by another faction. On their own route, you don't even unlock this form for fusion until New Game Plus. Despite it being built up as more powerful, this form ultimately doesn't impact the plot in any way.
  • The other Bethel heads are potentially fascinating characters, since they represent the Greek, Norse, Egyptian and Hindu pantheons and have their own agendas. However, they show up near the end of the game and get barely any screentime or development, with all of them besides Khonsu(who gets his own questline) and Shiva(who's represented by Vasuki) serving as minor storyline bosses in Taito.
  • The members of whichever faction you choose to side with are horribly underutilized after the route split. Their character development and plot from that point on is just one conversation in the dungeon and both of them dying to one of the other factions. Fans hoping to see their chosen side get more spotlight and their alignment fleshed out more will be very disappointed.
  • Some players believe that Tao's role as "the Saint" of Da'at and later the Goddess of Creation would make for some interesting exploration, but then Tao abruptly sacrifices herself to save Sahori, remaining dead until the final stretch of the game, giving her barely any focus at all.
• They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot:
  • In the Shinagawa region of Da'at, Aogami asks if you're willing to save Sahori despite the fact that she used Lahmu's power to kill two of her tormentors. It, along with the choice before the Lahmu fight, implies the game is setting up a moral choice- whether the player would focus on saving Sahori or killing Lahmu. Unfortunately, the choice doesn't matter. No matter what choice the player makes, the Nahobino acts the same way prior to the boss fight, and the outcome, in which Lahmu is killed at the cost of Sahori's life and Tao's human self is the same.
  • Many felt that the reveal that Aogami is actually Susanoo would have been something interesting to explore, since Amanozako is his daughter, who has been looking for him and Koshimizu is his brother. But instead, it's treated as a mere footnote and Aogami doesn't even react at all.
• Ugly Cute:
  • The Miman are small red figures with broken spheres for heads and a simple, easily distractible personality. Gathering them for Gustave feels like rounding up lost children.
  • Manananggal. One half of her face is attractive, with the other being dark green, and she mostly has a nice body, besides her visible innards.
• Unexpected Character:
  • While this game of course uses Shin Megami Tensei IV (and by extension, its sequel Apocalypse) and Strange Journey Redux as starting points for which demons to bring back, it also uses Shin Megami Tensei Liberation: Dx2 along with Persona 5 and its contemporary releases (like Royal and Strikers) for reference on the 3D models being used for them. However, there are also some demons that not only didn't appear in any of those games, but some of them haven't been utilized by the franchise for a very long time. Raise your hands if you were expecting Camael, Arioch, Turdak, and Ouyamatsumi to come back.^note While the latter two last appeared in Persona Q2: New Cinema Labyrinth, they were flat 2D images of older 3D models from the PlayStation 2 games rather than new 3D models.
  • The reveal of Vasuki leading Bethel India as Shiva’s proxy surprised many, as he’s the only Kaneko design among the leaders and he’s never had a significant story role beyond, at best, being a random story boss.
  • Status as a DLC demon aside, Artemis appearing in the game came as a surprise to some of the older SMT fans, as the last game she appeared in was Shin Megami Tensei IMAGINE, and that was as a simple Palette Swap of Diana. Keep in mind that game came out all the way back in 2007, meaning this is her first appearance in a mainline entry in over a decade.
  • Mastema's appearance in Vengeance pleasantly surprised players since, not counting Strange Journey Redux, it had been eleven years since he'd had a plot-significant role and unlike the rest of Vengeance's new Kaneko-designed demons did not have a ready-made 3D model to pull from existing console games.
• Viewer Gender Confusion:
  • The protagonist has a very androgynous appearance leading to people being confused over whether they are a feminine looking pretty boy or a girl dressing up in male clothing. And let's not get started on the protagonist's form after fusing with Aogami. Though most settled on the former, partly due to Shin Megami Tensei games leaning towards male protagonists anyway. The protagonist was later confirmed to be male.
  • Shows up again with Miyazu as many assumed her to be a boy upon first reveal, due to her short and messy hair and the fact that she wears the boys' uniform top. It was only after another trailer had her speak and show her in a skirt that she was confirmed as a female.

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